Approaching Foresters

[Stephen Alford]

A friend of mine bought a skid steer with felling head. Really nice machine,actually there is one pic of it in the gallery. I have more pics someplace but I did not want to give the impression it was mine. On that particular unit visibality was bad overhead after cutting the tree. The cut tree would get hung up in the other treetops and you could not see what was happening. Sticking your head out the front to look up with dead branches falling "bad". This was a thinning application. Not damaging residuals is a challenge no matter how its done. The other issue was muck season which occurs here after late fall and before early spring. The nights are cold and keeping the rubber undercarriage clean so it does not freeze in is quite a chore. Parking on slash or burring it in snow helps but a pain none the less first thing in the am and last thing at night. Oh ya approachin foresters I got nuttin

[PAFaller]

Hey thats alright, I am guessing you deal direct with landowners. I have tried that approach and find some landowners understanding, but more often than not leary of the new kid in town. Thats why I am hoping to work with some established professionals who have clients already. Plus, working by myself its hard to be calling landowners, meeting with them, negotiating contracts, cutting and skidding fiber, finding truckers, negotiating mill prices. I understand its all part of the job, but it would be much easier if I could find some foresters with proactive landowners to get me started and build a quality reputation. One day at a time here on my end.

[Stephen Alford]

 Hey Greg, ya my situation is a little different from what I have read on the forum. I really enjoy the landowner interaction cause it means   finding fresh malasses cookies on the seat of my truck when I come out with a twitch. For the most part contracts are still a handshake with a paw that goes half way to your elbow. What I cut during the day goes home with me at night. When the temperature starts to climb you start early and by 2pm your headin for the beech. I have been on some properties awhile so all you need are a couple of good ones a year depending on what has to be done. Generally speaking the landowners will find you once you get going. Referals are great cause that means some of the harder work is already done. I do not want to presume to know how the forester/contractor/landowner connection plays out in your area. From what I have read here on the forum there are some topnotch people in all categories.  Later....

[Stephen Alford]

Thinking about your situation today and thought I might add a bit. One of the problems you may be encountering is your "to busy working to make any money". With the present conditions plus domestic requirements having money and time left to invest in a new business can be tricky. I would probably discuss my plans with your current employer so that it doesn,t come back from other sources.  The possibility of buying his machine or taking over some part of the operation he doesn't want can get you started.  We all sell something to somebody. So when you approach potential clients, what you have to offer is crucial. It has to be something they need or unable to do themselves. Not that I  would ever do it because of tax implications but sometimes you can barter your way in. Often time is the only resource left.  For example there might be an accountant that heats with wood or maybe a lawyer looking to have some wood to heat a rec room. I have even heard of saw shops and grocery stores of all places looking for wood. Hard to believe but  farmers and crafts people looking for roughsawn lumber,who knew.  Every person  you make contact with can be considered as twelve. The ratio here for employees is five people implementing to one looking and orchestrating.  I would also start a  digital pic portfolio so when sending emails the opportunity to enhance  exists.     Stephen.

[PAFaller]

Sooooo... I went ahead and put a letter in to over 35 consulting and  forestland management professionals in PA and New York. Not so much as a 'hey got your letter we'll keep you in mind' response. I am rather disappointed. Not so much that I am giving up on the industry or anything that drastic, just trying to figure out what the beef is with consultants around here . Am I crazy to think that there are guys in this area that would actually consider doing some low grade harvests for their clients, especially when I have sound and steady markets for pulpwood and scrag or pallet timber?  I know most of the foresters here work on a commission and just love the big timber big money stuff but its not moving right now, and I was hoping that capitalizing on low grade would be a good way to go.  Sorry for venting my frustrations here, just hoping there are some folks who understand!

[WDH]

Don't give up.  What you are proposing has great benefit.  Maybe the concept needs a little soak time since things are such a confounded mess.

[Sprucegum]

Those letters need to be followed up with a phone call " Hey its me, did ya get my letter? What did you think of it?" or something to that effect.

Then you send them another note thanking them for taking the time to talk to you.

Then you drop in to say Hi

Then...........you never stop, do you?  And that's when you get the job 

[PAFaller]

Ya that makes sense, just dont want to come off as an irritating PITA! When I first started this thread that was one of my concerns. I know in times such as these that foresters are probably getting calls all the time from guys looking for something to do. Most of the mills here are on quotas and/ or are laying guys off, so the phones are full of guys trying to keep their iron pulling wood. I think I stand apart because of my degree and ability to understand the forestry side of whats going on, and a focus on low vlaue timber. My markets are sound just because I spend one Saturday a month in a Professional Timber Harvesters meeting and have networked with guys from all over the state who have clued me in to what works and to things that are 'outside of the box' so to speak. I just dont want to come off as a pesky kid trying to find a handout, which shouldn't be the case but could be seen as such on a bad day.

[woodtroll]

Be a pest to the state foresters. Drop in shoot the breeze. Keep your name on their minds. just remember forestry work takes time to set up. Show case your next job, or a previous one. I mean this in two ways. Take pictures, before and after. Take people (state foresters, private land owners) out to the jobs. Maybe have them meet a client. I avoided consultants for now, they will be skeptical. It affects income sometimes and if you don't perform their reputation. if you are as smart as you sound with a forestry back ground they may be worried about losing landowners also.
Hang in there. If you are giving money for low grade they will find you.

Last thing, some people tend to think loggers moving low value stuff are more "duct tape and baling wire" operations. That is something you just need to prove wrong.

[Ron Scott]

Ditto! to what Sprucegum said.

Do the "personal follow-ups" and let them get to know you, your interests, and availablity better. The letter is an intoduction but it is often filed away without any response, especially if no references were listed.

The personal contacts and follow-up interviews will help to generate any work that might be available. Also ask to be placed on any bidders list for such work and be sure to give them a correct address and telephone number where you can be contacted.    

[Phorester]

There is a great need for the type of practice you are offering.  It's similiar to weeding a garden to improve the growth of the garden.  But we offer to mark woodlands to accomplish that here for free, and landowners still don't want to do it. We mark it, they go looking for offers, no buyers want just the junk, or they offer them such a low price that the landowners say, if it's only worth that much I'll just let'em stand.  I tell them that such a thinning is not designed to make money, it's designed to improver the future value and health of their forest.  But if a landowner can't get what they consider "good" money for cutting their trees, they don't want to cut them. Good forest management goes out the window if the landowner can't make a big profit on it.

Again, there is definitely a need for what you are offering.  But you've got a big selling job to do to convince private landowners.  There's good advice in this thread on how to approach it. I hope you fine a way to do it.

[jrdwyer]

PAFaller,

Sounds like a good plan to make a living and improve the forests at the same time. 

My situation is similar to Phorester in that most of the timber buyers/loggers will not cut the junk unless there is some good stuff to go along with it.

I work on a commission basis for timber sales and obviously I like large tracts and big trees. I also work on low-value bottomland timber (gum, sycamore, wormy maple) and/or small tracts. I look at all lower value jobs from the standpoint of making a certain minimum amount per day worked. Sure it will not be as much as selling 3 veneer walnut trees per acre, but I don't have the luxury of just working on the good stuff. I never discount the value of a small job turning into other better jobs.

Best of luck.

[faster1]

what diameter wood are you wanting to cut? the larger chip mills in NW pa want the pulp to be a minimum of 5" on the small end or it shatters in the debarker.