Author Topic: logging tractor (Read 4776 times)

1938farmall · « **on:** February 20, 2009, 03:30:48 pm »

Thinking about upgrading my "red" tractor to "green" and see there are a very large number of John Deere 4720 listings. It is 58hp w/4wd and looks like it only comes with the hydro drive (3 ranges, separate pedals for forward & reverse). Since this model was only started in '05 it must have been very popular. Any feedback on this model would be appreciated. Thanks, Al

adirondack harvester · « **Reply #1 on:** February 20, 2009, 03:39:37 pm »

If the tractor is going to be used for logging you might want to think about getting a skidder instead. A lot more stable and designed to take the abuse of the woods.

thecfarm · « **Reply #2 on:** February 20, 2009, 04:46:04 pm »

Look to see where the hyd filter is.On some it's under the floor board.

A real good place to hit it with stumps and rocks.You will need to buy the protective cage for it.

dsgsr · « **Reply #3 on:** February 20, 2009, 07:24:22 pm »

1938farmall , If you're thinking of buying the JD 4000-20 series models look at the 4320. I think it has the most bang for the buck. JD used the same engine for the 4120, 4320, 4520 and 4720 but just tweaked the injectors for more HP. In my opinion the more you tweak an engine the hotter it runs for the same grunt, which results in less engine life. All four tractors are the same size frame but different HP.

David

tractorhal · « **Reply #4 on:** February 20, 2009, 07:30:15 pm »

check out tractorbuynet.com

Woodhog · « **Reply #5 on:** February 20, 2009, 07:40:21 pm »

I would not want hydro drive in the woods...

I like to set the hand throttle to a certain speed and usually you are in the lowest two gears on the low range...

Once you have the gear selected for the hauling conditions and the hand throttle set you can
adjust the rev slightly with the foot throttle once in a while.

I like to just grind and roll along slowly and not to have to keep pushing with your foot on the hydrodrive foot control when the machine is bouncing around on rough ground.

Its much different from running a back hoe or a tractor in field work when you a skidding with a tractor in rough woods conditions.

beenthere · « **Reply #6 on:** February 20, 2009, 08:14:10 pm »

And not to just be different, but I think hydro in the woods is the best game in town, compared to gears. Hands are free to run the loader and 3pt., move branches out of the way if needed, and scratch an itch, or just chase bugs away from the face and wipe the sweat off

.

And there is cruise control with Deere hydro, so having a steady speed with no foot usage is an easy choice if tired on the hydro pedal. Sometimes I use the cruise in the woods on longer runs, but not often. Also this Deere has load match, so that is handy too.
Just my opinion.

Not heard of ~~any~~ hydro users that go back to gears.

The Deere 4000 series has Deere diesels too, not Yanmar.

Polly · « **Reply #7 on:** February 20, 2009, 10:32:05 pm »

i got a jd 5325 4 wheel drive with a front end loader this is about 60 hp if you are getting a jd just to pull and load logs i think a skidder or something else would do better the jd the hyd connections for the loader hang to low if you have not a weight box on the rear and try to pick up over 2000 lb the read of the tractor comes off the ground if you try to raise the bucket or forks on unlevel ground it makes the tractor top heavy the old farmall with a pto driven wench would be just as good as well as being a lot cheaper

thecfarm · « **Reply #8 on:** February 21, 2009, 06:06:32 am »

I don't think a hydro is the way to go either.I put my tractor in gear and set the throttle and go.My hands are free to run the loader and 3 pt too.Once I have the winch up and get going I don't touch them again until I get to the wood yard.But most times I just keep one hand on the wheel all the way.I just go at a steady speed.I'm in the woods with mine just about every day off doing something.I do have another tractor that is hydro and like it for what I do with it,it never goes in the woods to be worked hard.

zopi · « **Reply #9 on:** February 21, 2009, 06:35:06 am »

There is not such thing as a red to green upgrade.

fishpharmer · « **Reply #10 on:** February 21, 2009, 07:24:50 am »

Zopi , thats highly debatable.

Concerning choice of tractor size. It depends on size of logs you are trying to move and other tools involved. I don't have alot of experience moving logs with tractors, but I have some.

This is my humble opinion; the more weight and horsepower the better for straight dragging. I used my MF 263, of about 62 horsepower to move most of the big logs after the hurricane. The Massey weighs close to 7000 pounds with ballasted tires. I would put a chain around the big end of a log and pick up with the 3 pt hitch. Then pull. Most logs I moved were at least 24 inches diameter. That was probably the smallest tractor I would want to use skidding logs.

The tractor front end often came off the ground if I went to fast or on rough ground.

I didn't have my 4020 at the time but it is much larger and I am sure would have done a better job.

Now I think if you are using a log arch, weight isn't as important if on flat ground. A small tractor on steep slopes will get pushed around by the weight of logs. Ask me how I know

Tractor brakes are designed to stop the weight of the tractor and a reasonable load. I personally wouldn't want to move alot of logs that weigh more than my tractor.

I looked at the 4720 specs on the deere site and it shows a weight of 3700 lbs. Seems a little light to me for logging, although 4wd will help if you can keep the front wheels down.

For probably not much difference in money I think I would go with a larger 5000 series tractor.

Hope that helps some.
I know there are folks with alot more experience than I.

Sawyerfortyish · « **Reply #11 on:** February 21, 2009, 07:37:37 am »

Man going from red to one of them green things is like shootin ol yeller. I know a lot of guys use tractors for logging but skidders are for logging tractors are for farming. I started on a blue tractor with a farmi winch that worked good. After a small dead tree along the skid road fell across the tractor seat knocking me out of it I went and bought a timberjack. I didn't get seriously hurt from that tree but it could have been real bad had it hit me square. I lived and learned. You can get a real deal on a skidder now. When I bought mine I only paid 9 grand and put it to work. That was in 1989 and it's still going strong. Get the right tool for the job.

Reddog · « **Reply #12 on:** February 21, 2009, 10:27:20 am »

Quote from: 1938farmall on February 20, 2009, 03:30:48 pm

3 ranges, separate pedals for forward & reverse

What you describe here sounds a lot like the Clark skidders we had. They where a 3 speed power shift with a torque converter.
I would think the JD Hydro would work much the same way. It would let you control your speed well going through rough terrain. And start the pull on a heavy load easy, so as not to shock the drive-train.
The only disadvantage I know of for the hydro's is they do not like plowing and disking all that well. They can build a lot of heat in the transmission on steady all day pulling. Plus in order to make them work right in the hard long pulls, you need to keep the engine at near max rpm's. But for shuttle/loader work and varying speed work they are great.

I skid with a M6800 Kubota and a 601Farmi 3pt winch. It has a hyd shuttle clutch, so that takes the load off the trans on the start of a hard pull. When I bought it I was looking for a power-shift of a hydro. None of the large names built one at that time in a 68hp. What you are looking at sounds very intriguing.
As you already know from using your current tractor, sticks can take out a lot of vital parts on a tractor compared to a skidder.

The other brand to look at and see what maybe available is Fendt. They have a lot of CVT transmissions. I just did not have a dealer in my area. Hopefully I have answered some of your questions.

pineywoods · « **Reply #13 on:** February 21, 2009, 10:39:30 am »

There is another option, it's ORANGE. Been using a Kubota M4700 for several years, it does everything I need. Most of the Kubotas mentioned on here are the L series, a little on the small side for skidding. M's can be had with 100 hp and more. On tractor skidding in general.... For use as a skidder, 4 wd is pretty much a waste, if you have a front loader, then it's worth while. Most folks will tell you to put a belly pan under the bottom for protection from stumps and limbs. I say don't, the downside of belly pans is they get full of leaves and debris which gets soaked with diesel fuel and oil, then catches fire and burns the whole machine to the ground. Just watch what you run over. OK, so I might bust off something, I can fix that, kind of hard to rebuild a burned machine. I don't use chains to hook the log, a good set of skidding tongs is a good investment. Just make sure the tongs are attached to the 3-pt up high enough that you can lift the end of the log a few inches off the ground. Dragging a log through the woods with the front edge digging in the dirt and roots is an accident waiting to happen. I have a home-built hydraulic winch mounted on the 3-pt hitch, only use it when I can't get the tractor close enough to the log to use the tongs.
Yeah, a small skidder would be nice, but it won't load the logs on a trailer, or haul off a pile of slabs, or put a log on the mill. For us po-boy part time operators a well equipped big-enough tractor is a very good compromise

Polly · « **Reply #14 on:** February 21, 2009, 03:37:12 pm »

my wife likes the pretty grean paint thats my color and i am stuck with it

woodmills1 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 21, 2009, 03:41:45 pm »

there is also another orage option

KIOTI

here is a dk45 with metavic loader from payeur.com

there forester Kiotis 's are well set up and protedted for woods work

I have a dk40 and metavic if you have any questions
http://payeur.com/produits/usages/usage22.JPG

dsgsr · « **Reply #16 on:** February 21, 2009, 05:59:29 pm »

woodmills1, Do you run your tractor in 4wd with the chains on front?

Thank you,
David

Dave Shepard · « **Reply #17 on:** February 21, 2009, 06:36:18 pm »

I prefer hydro for most things, and have no problems whatsoever with it in the woods. Hydro can allow you to do some things that just can't be done with conventional setups. Working on very steep slopes with positive control for one, like setting a tree in a planting hole. I have a Farmi winch, and my L48 does a fine job with it. You do loose some power, but it isn't really an issue in my opinion. As for color, well, that's personal preference.

I pulled these two 40'+ red oak logs out with ease.

tyb525 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 21, 2009, 08:35:40 pm »

My old IH 656, although not ideal for wood work, works well when it's not too slick or hilly. My dad built a heavy duty crane-type attatchment for the back. It works very well.

It has hyrdo drive. It's the kind that you control with your hand, just put it at the speed you want and leave it. It's very handy. It also has a clutch, for whatever reason. The hydraulics can lift quite a bit too.

Biggest log I've pulled with it was a 20" diameter 40' walnut, didn't have much trouble, except trying to get it around a sharp bend.

Not sure why I didn't cut it into shorter lengths. I guess I'll attribute that to limited experience at the time.

Dave Shepard · « **Reply #19 on:** February 21, 2009, 08:42:26 pm »

We've got three of those 656s, all diesel, no hydros. They seem to run forever.

tyb525 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 21, 2009, 08:55:07 pm »

Mine's gas, but it still runs great somehow.

woodmills1 · « **Reply #21 on:** February 23, 2009, 04:45:27 pm »

4wd with chains on rears

John Woodworth · « **Reply #22 on:** February 25, 2009, 02:26:56 am »

I personaly wouldn't think of logging with a tractor but to each his own, here on the west coast the terrain would tear them up, skidders are probably the most abused piece of machinery in the woods yet they always get the job done and with reasonable operator safety. Too many thing on a tractor un shielded to be damaged and the frames and running gear were designed for a whole different job, if your a weekend logger you will probably be fine but JD builds both skidders for logging and tractors for logging.

OneWithWood · « **Reply #23 on:** February 25, 2009, 11:12:58 am »

What is the terrain like?

I use a JD4520 with a logrite arch to pull logs out once I get the logs to the access road. My terrain is severe and I use an old JD450C crawler/loader with a monster timber winch on the back to get the logs to the road.

Widen the stance of the tractor by extending your tires and put chains on the back if the terrain is rugged.

Dom · « **Reply #24 on:** February 25, 2009, 03:55:40 pm »

I guess it would all depend on the type of logging you plan on doing.
If you use the tractor for your own firewood lets say a max of 10 cords a year, the 4720 should be able to do the task if you are careful and attentive to your surroundings. If you plan to log heavier then buy a proper machine.

We had a 4720 at home for a while, and settled on a L5740 (Kubota's version). Neither are tractors I would use much in the forest (only for my own firewood). They have the power, but lack weight. we use ours for brush cutting, and other light work, and for this its perfect. At 60 HP, we haven't ran out of power yet. For heavier work, a real farm tractor would be better (bigger frame, heavier, able to handle some tough times).

debushau · « **Reply #25 on:** February 25, 2009, 05:28:47 pm »

I also use an L5740 with a Farmi to do some light firewood logging. I used to own a JD 3520 but I found that it lacked ground clearance and had too high of a center of gravity. The JD 4000 series is better in that respect but still lacks ground clearance compared to the Kubota and is somewhat more "electronic". The JD has a nicer cab though.

I looked also at an M6040 which is about the same HP as the L5740 but is a larger frame and more weight. I felt that the L was a better choice in this application because HST and a shorter length make it easier to navigate through tight trails. On the weight issue, once you put a loader on it, fill the tires, and slap a Farmi on the back, you are getting up to 6,000 lb in weight. If that's not enough, you can get wheel weights, put on a belly pan, etc.

Maineloggerkid · « **Reply #26 on:** February 25, 2009, 06:25:53 pm »

I use a 4120 full time for logging. My best was 21 cords in 2 1/2 days. The average is about 6-7 cords a day, and I get my wood hauled by a 9 cord truck.( 8 cord legally, but he always overloads) I usually cut tree length because it is quicker, but I like to cut logs in the woods. It seems much better, the lot looks nicer, and you pay more attention to details. My setup is better suited to selective cutting where the emphasis is on quality, not quantity of wood produced.

mike_van · « **Reply #27 on:** February 25, 2009, 06:28:37 pm »

My limited 2 cents - Steep ground, lots of rocks, skidder country. The rest of it I think depends on the operator, how careful they are. Some will cut off a 4" tree, some want to push it over & mush on - A guy trying to fill a quota with a tractor is probably going to push it right to the max & beyond all the time. Someone doing their own stuff on their own lands going to be a lot easier.

sparky · « **Reply #28 on:** March 01, 2009, 06:47:48 pm »

Selecting a tractor is like eating a watermellon. "Go for the red and throw the green away".

Sparky

thedeeredude · « **Reply #29 on:** March 01, 2009, 07:46:02 pm »

Self loathing, are we?

woodmills1 · « **Reply #30 on:** March 01, 2009, 08:17:52 pm »

the other orange has treated me well.

cilley · « **Reply #31 on:** March 03, 2009, 01:57:50 pm »

Hi everyone...........what you have usually depends on what your needs are........small operation, smaller tractor.........not in a hurry, same thing........and of course the number one concern.....what we can afford.........I just bought a 1963 Ford 4000 this weekend.........its not pretty.....but i know it will do what I want it to do..........price was right and paint is cheap....getting ready to mill some wood in the next 2 weeks........take care all.......Alan

sparky · « **Reply #32 on:** March 03, 2009, 03:40:29 pm »

Deer Dude,

I have two green tractors, but my other colors outnumber them about 12 to 2. I am into antique tractors and most of mine start by crank. The John Deere and Oliver were bought because of price and the fact they have FELs. I have used both of them to skid and load.

Sparky

thedeeredude · « **Reply #33 on:** March 03, 2009, 08:09:01 pm »

Any pictures sparky? I love antique tractors in all colors.

Dave Shepard · « **Reply #34 on:** March 03, 2009, 09:41:06 pm »

I've got a few, there all red but one. I-14 electric, SW6-TA, I-4, F-12 Waukesha, are a couple of the neater ones.

sparky · « **Reply #35 on:** March 06, 2009, 04:49:11 pm »

Deer Dude,

I need to learn the procedure for posting photos. I will post a few when I discover how to do it. My pride and joy is a 1925 Minneapolis Threshing Machine, Model 17-30. It has a 2 speed tranny and 2nd is 3.25 MPH. It is a cross motor designed for belt work with 30 belt HP. The manifold has a selector to switch between distillate fuel and gasoline. It is stuck in the distillate position so I can't work it hard. I would like to belt it up to our tractor club's circular sawmill just for a cheap thrill.

Sparky

Polly · « **Reply #36 on:** March 06, 2009, 07:41:06 pm »

how about the log wench that fits on the 3 point hitch and runs off the pto has anyone got one,are they any good $:-\$ $:-\$

Dave Shepard · « **Reply #37 on:** March 06, 2009, 07:50:12 pm »

I've got an older Farmi winch, and it's great. If you are logging with a tractor, it makes a big difference. Not only is it good for pulling logs out of weird places, but it keeps the butts off the ground, keeping things a little cleaner, and makes them easier to pull. Also, you can drop the logs and navigate around small obstacles, and then winch the logs back to the machine. Go back to the first page to see my logging setup, post #17

Reddog · « **Reply #38 on:** March 06, 2009, 09:13:07 pm »

Yes, as Dave pointed out they work well.
I have a 601 Farmi.

Banjo picker · « **Reply #39 on:** March 06, 2009, 09:28:34 pm »

What would be the speed and capasity of the farmi, I have a M7040 Kubota with a front end loader. Tim

Dave Shepard · « **Reply #40 on:** March 06, 2009, 09:32:10 pm »

501

Height:       65"
Width:       55"
Shipping Weight:       725 lbs.
Pulling Capacity:       11025 lbs.
Drum Capacity:       Sold with 165” of ½” cable with option of up to 265’ of 3/8” cable
Winching Speed:       1 to 5 ft. per second.
Clutch:       Mechanical friction plate clutch with heat sink
Power Transmission:       Universal shaft from tractor
Mounting:       To Category I or II 3-point hitch
Tractor Size:       Min. 40 HP, Max. 60 HP
Related Product:       Farmi 501T Skidding Winch - 501 with Electric Hydraulic Control System

601

Height:       69 11/16"
Width:       70 7/8"
Shipping Weight:       990 lbs
Pulling Capacity:       13,200 lbs
Drum Capacity:       Sold Standard with 165’ of 9/16” cable, all other lengths and sizes are optional and available
Winching Speed:       40-200 ft. per minute
Clutch:       Mechanical friction plate clutch with heat sink
Power Transmission:       Universal shaft from tractor
Mounting:       Category I or II 3-point hitch
Tractor Size:       Min. 60 HP, Max. 150 HP
Related Product:       Farmi 601T Skidding Winch - 601 with Electric Hydraulic Control System

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Author Topic: logging tractor (Read 4776 times)