Author Topic: What tools for tonge and grove (Read 2166 times)

tomtrees · « **on:** February 05, 2009, 04:17:56 pm »

I have got rough cut beach flooring for sale

. I keep getting asked for the wood finished in tongue and grove $:-\$ . I need help being a bit green I have really no idea what machine I need to do this on a semi pro scale and how much I need to invest on a good long lasting piece of equipment. I know you guys will help me put the right step forward.

Tom

jdtuttle · « **Reply #1 on:** February 05, 2009, 04:40:42 pm »

http://www.logosol.com/_planers/ph260/brochures.php
CKM has a three sided planer moulder too. You may want to check out used also. Look to the left on the side bar for CMS
Jim

woodbowl · « **Reply #2 on:** February 05, 2009, 08:14:45 pm »

I sawed some cedar for a fellow that was going to tongue and groove it for his office. He wanted it thin, but by the time he planed it down it was very thin indeed and it still needed to be tongued and grooved. He was using only a table saw to make both the tongue and groove, but the problem was the knots. It was so thin they would fly out leaving a hole in the finished product. His solution was groove and groove with a spline. He even put a "V" on the edges, all with a table saw. He was satisfied with the finished wall.

I too have considered getting a shaper or planer moulder to T&G the wood for my interior walls. Making T&G on a table saw is way more than I want to do, but groove and groove is becoming more and more actractive. A table saw can rip a shallow groove in a short amount of time. I know it's a lot of hands on and is not like sticking a board in one end and watching it feed through by itself to a finished product on the other end. I also considered making the floor with G&G. A floor seems diferent than a wall because of the fastening needed to secure weight walking on it. T&G is one piece and the next board is held down by the previous with a non movable tongue. A not so tight spline may not hold things as tight, allowing a squeeky floor. Just speculating here, I really don't know. Any ideas or suggestions would surely help me out. It sure would be nice to use simple tools to make a fine floor.

brdmkr · « **Reply #3 on:** February 05, 2009, 08:49:57 pm »

I have not used any of it, but I have cut T&G on my woodmaster with the router kit. It will allow you to finish a face and edge at one time. I cut the groove, flip and cut the tongue. Don't know if it will squeakl or not.

Lil Badger Creek · « **Reply #4 on:** February 05, 2009, 10:39:07 pm »

Baker has a nice 4 sided moulder, and they are a sponsor here, click on the left. It is like the Logosol only more Horse power. i think it is a M412. It will do 4" thick and 12" wide. That's what I would buy! Have fun in your search! Stephen

woodmills1 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 06, 2009, 07:58:12 am »

A shaper or router table can also be used to make tounge and groove.

Kelvin · « **Reply #6 on:** February 06, 2009, 09:06:06 am »

I've found that a shaper w/ power feeder is more ideal for a small timer for the reason that all the above mentioned 4 sided moulders need exact widths and take some time to change widths. As a small guy you want to use your lumber to the fullest extant, say you have a 1x5" and you want 3" wide flooring, do you throw away 2" for every board you make? Doint one edge at a time allows you to easily run different width pieces. So i make 2" and 3" flooring at the same time to use all the wood.

If you take to a big milling place and say you want standard 2 3/4" hardwood flooring, the rest gets chipped. With the shaper and power feed (get big one 3hp shaper and 1hp feeder) you can do any width you feed through. I did my 2500 sq ft crazy house this way. with a 4 head shaper you have to have pretty exact pieces to start with, which means you've already planed both sides, straight lined, jointed and ripped to width. Why bother with the 4 head at that point? you don't even need the two other sides. Only really big expensive 5 and 6 head machines are good at taking rough lumber in one end and spitting finished flooring out the other.

I've found this to be the most reliable way for the small guy. I buy all my machines used, and now days there is a lot to be had for about 1/2 of new. Otherwise buy from Grizzly or someplace and you are all set for 1/8 of the money and you can always resell for pretty good b/c everyone wants a nice shaper. moulders are a little more of a risk.

T&G are easy to do on a router table as it doesn't take much power to run, but you mentioned semi-commercial size. The moulder planers have the same problem with width.
Thats what i've found to be most helpful. If you have the money Logosol is probably nice machine but you have to figure at least buying their chip extractor as well as it takes a lot of suction to clear them. $12k? Woodmizer makes a inexpensive 4 head, and sunhill imports a 3 head which i think Baker has a version of too. Maybe $8k plus suction....
KP

Corley5 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 06, 2009, 09:40:51 am »

Woodmaster has a kit that allows the use of two routers so that doing three sides is possible

tomtrees · « **Reply #8 on:** February 06, 2009, 10:17:36 am »

Hi Kelvin

loads of info. I had to read through a few times to suck it all in Thanks.

woodbowl · « **Reply #9 on:** February 06, 2009, 06:10:23 pm »

Quote from: Kelvin on February 06, 2009, 09:06:06 am

I've found that a shaper w/ power feeder is more ideal for a small timer ..... With the shaper and power feed (get big one 3hp shaper and 1hp feeder) you can do any width you feed through. ..... I buy all my machines used, and now days there is a lot to be had for about 1/2 of new.

I like your setup Kelvin. It sure beats using a table saw for large volume. How much do you figure you have invested in your used 3 hp shaper and 1 hp feeder and where is a good source?

ebath · « **Reply #10 on:** February 07, 2009, 09:04:00 am »

I use Kelvin's shaper method. My used 3hp shaper was $400 and a new 1/4 hp Grizzly power feeder was $600. I already had the t&g cutters from an older, smaller shaper. So total cost was a little over $1,000 and I'm using the shaper for many other projects.

The 1/4 hp power feeder is strong enough for me. After the first run, I slowed the feeder down to its slowest speed because the boards were coming off so fast that it was working me to death!

My process for flooring is: 1) Cross cut boards to rough length 2) Joint one face and one edge 3) Rip to width 4) Plane to thickness 5) Shape the grooves 6) Shape the tongues 7) Cross cut to final length

I rip to several random widths depending on what the boards will give. For example, some 3", 4", 4 7/8", etc. You need enough of each width to lay down an entire row for the floor. I also cross cut to final length based on what I can get out of the board (but at least 2 feet long). By alternating the different widths for each row and staggering the lengths, you get a beautiful, custom floor and save a lot of wood.

You could also attach the power feeder to the table saw for ripping, but I'm not sure my saw is strong enough.

Ed

woodmills1 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 09, 2009, 09:37:01 am »

I have a tip for the final cut to length. Using a chop saw or radial the cut is never exactly square, so I make all cuts the same way. That is groove against fence right cut with board to left, the left cut with board to right. If you flip boards or change the cutting pattern there will be slight uneven gaps where the boards meet.

Mc · « **Reply #12 on:** February 10, 2009, 08:14:12 pm »

Hi Tom,

I work in a shop where we have both a Logosol and a Woodmaster with the Double Router Attachment.
both are good machines. I also believe that the Baker 412 is a good machine. We had a hard time choosing between it and the Logosol.

I don't doubt that you could do a good job on a shaper with a power feeder also but since it sounds like you might be doing a fair bit of production then I would look at a Woodmaster or a Baker/ Logosol (these last two are almost identical to on another while the Woodmaster is a different beast). The Woodmaster is cheaper and overall more versatile for doing deeper cuts on custom profiles with the top head (the only head in addition to the top head are the two optional routers that you can attach with he DRA) , but for doing runs of regular type casings, baseboards, S4S, decking, and T&G then I would with the Baker/Logosol as it is more productive with their four heads.

Mc

ebath · « **Reply #13 on:** February 13, 2009, 07:46:45 pm »

woodmills1:

Thanks for adding the tip on cutting to length. It makes all the difference in end matching.

I do the same thing on the jointer when I'm making the board edges square. My jointer is never exactly ninety degrees.

On every other board, I alternate the face that is pushed against the fence so the first is ~ eighty-nine degrees and the second is ~ ninety-one degrees.

In this case, two wrongs make a right (angle)!

Ed

tomtrees · « **Reply #14 on:** February 15, 2009, 12:17:52 pm »

Well the shaper and power feed is going to be much more in my price range for the moment. I will try and buy a well known make and may be trade up later. I have a sales man ringing me about a 2 hp model he thinks it will have enough power for what I want but I have no previous experience to draw on in this kind of area. I have time to wait so have formed no final decisions yet.

I am still reading posts on this site and will probably make a purchase on what info I gleam here thanks for your input and it is usfull for me even when it is not amed at me

Tom

Larry · « **Reply #15 on:** February 15, 2009, 07:14:14 pm »

Lets make some tongue and groove.

Kelvin · « **Reply #16 on:** February 16, 2009, 08:53:12 am »

2hp is plenty. T&G doesn't take any power to run, a router is enough. Its the size of the cutters that dictate what horse power you need. If you want 4" moulder head w/ crown knives, get more hp, otherwise you will be fine.
Have fun,
KP

JD350Cmark · « **Reply #17 on:** February 16, 2009, 11:21:46 am »

Larry - thanks for the link to your old post. I had not read that. I am too getting ready to T&G a bunch of material. I'm set up with a Delta shaper & feeder. -Mark

beav39 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 03, 2009, 06:08:26 am »

any chance you could post a pic of your operation on tounge and groove?

JD350Cmark · « **Reply #19 on:** March 16, 2009, 12:16:07 am »

beav39 - I keep the shaper on a special pallet & keep it in a shipping container. I'm not going to be using it for some time now and don't have any photos. Will take some next time I do a batch.

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Author Topic: What tools for tonge and grove (Read 2166 times)