Standby power: propane versus diesel?

[LeeB]

What's the pros and cons here. I'm gonna get a standby generator. The power goes out for long spell around my place way to often to rely on my little gas job. Which ya'll think is best.

[stonebroke]

In the North propane is better because the fuel will not gell no matter what.

Stonebroke

[Norm]

I looked long and hard at them after our last ice storm and decided propane was the way to go. Unfortunately I still have not bought one.

[submarinesailor]

It depends on if you are looking for life cycle cost or just the short term costs.  In the long run, taking into consideration the maintenance and fuel treatment cost, propane could be the cheaper.  You can just let propane sit in the tank for many years and it is still good to go.  You can’t do that with diesel.  Also, there is very little injector/carburetor maintenance.  And the engine oil stays a lot cleaner.

If you want very high reliability with diesel fuel, you ready should drain it, run it thru a dryer and add some treatment to it each year.  We, the DESC Energy Support Center, have had major boiler plants on military installations go down big time because they did not take care of their #2 oil.

Lee, it sounds like you are looking at a backup generator for the house (Lindy)  I have been doing a lot of research into backups and it looks to me like the Guardian/Generac series gives the best deal around – automatic switch gear is included in some of their packages.  I hope to pickup and install a 17KW propane this summer.  Any of you other guys have good or bad things to say about them?

Bruce

[pineywoods]

Propane is probably the best all things considered. It does have one drawback, especially for you guys in the far frigid north. Like gasoline and diesel, propane has different formulations depending on the season. Fill your tank with the summer blend, and you may be in trouble when the temp turns cold enough. Propane won't vaporize or "boil off" below a certain temp. That critical temp varies depending on the blend. I've seen a few cases where it was necessary to heat the tank....carefully

Best bet if you have it is natural gas......

[WH_Conley]

The guy that owns the little store down the road put in propane. Knowing him he looked at all the pro's and con's, was talking about it for a few months. His parents live just behind the store and he tied into their tank, has automatic switching gear.

[stonebroke]

Pineywoods
the best way to solve that is to put the propane tank underground.

Stonebroke

[beenthere]

Propane is probably the best all things considered. It does have one drawback, especially for you guys in the far frigid north. Like gasoline and diesel, propane has different formulations depending on the season. Fill your tank with the summer blend, and you may be in trouble when the temp turns cold enough. ..........

First I've ever heard that propane has different forumulations, as we get fills year-around up 'nort, independent of time-of-year.
Do you know of where more information about this can be found?   I'd like to confirm if it is true.   

[sawguy21]

Most of the units we sell run on NG, they are also set up for propane if required. NG is very clean and convenient, maintenance is limited to annual oil changes and air filter replacement.
Diesel would be the way to go if propane or NG is not readily available but as was mentioned, the fuel system must be kept clean. Otherwise, algae and water will accumulate.
The Guardian units are reasonably priced but our experience has been that they require more frequent service calls. Hard starting and the switching are the usual complaints. The cabinets have been flimsy but they appear to be addressing that.
The biggest issue is finding a knowledgeable service dealer, a lot of retailers really do not know how to set up and maintain them. The big box stores are the worst.

[renegadecj]

I'm looking at the same thing...backup power for power outages, but also wanted something that would run in case of a national emergency.  We have natural gas, but a friend who who works for xcel energy said not to depend on the flow of gas in case of emergency.  I own a couple of 100# propane tanks which would work just fine.  How long can a generator run on a propane tank?

Where is the best place to buy a backup generator?

[Gary_C]

Back in the 1990's I went thru an ice storm that knocked out power for almost two weeks and we depended on a 55 kw pto generator for all that time. Afterwards I decided to look into getting a stationary generator for standby power as we were milking cows and standby power was a must.

I found a surplus generator for sale that I thought was just right for what I needed and the price was right. It also was a very interesting unit and I was ready to buy that generator. It was only about $3000 if I remember right and it was a Solar brand gas turbine generator that was formerly in one of the tunnels on the Pennsylvannia Turnpike for emergency lighting and was replaced by a new generator.

But before I bought that generator, I had the salvage company send me the specs. As it turned out, that gas turbine would consume anywhere from 8 to 32 gallons per hour of diesel and that meant it would burn between 200 and 600 gallons of diesel per day. 

Needless to say, I still have that pto powered generator. With a 130 hp tractor running all day even that would consume 60 to 70 gallons per day.

So if you are looking at a standby generator, look closely at the fuel consumption and consider how much storage is needed. Those numbers are available, but not easily found unless you look. Problem is those numbers do not sell generators. Plus you have to maintain and exercise those generators regularly or they will not work when you need them. That's one thing for a large company with a maintenance staff to do, but for the rest of us it is just another project that probably will not get done.

And many of those large businesses that must have standby generators have them connected to natural gas. Small propane tanks will not work, they will freeze up as the NER (normal evaporation rate) is not nearly high enough. You need a vaporizer.

[Larry]

When I worked for the telephone company we had gas onan generators on the repair trucks, propane on all power carts for underground work, and big diesels for central office backups.  By far the propane units were the most reliable with zero maintenance.  The diesels were just as reliable but maintenance was required on a monthly basis to insure this reliability.

You might watch for a generator from a chicken house...they are too small to run the new chicken houses and have been selling on the cheap.  There were several adds on craigslist this week for them...of course they were asking a premium.  As soon as we get power back I going to do some serious scouting for one...if I turn up two I’ll send ya a PM.

[Ironwood]

I'll be keeping an eye out on this post,as eventually I'd like to have a unit here (10kw or so)


Ironwood

[WoodMiller]

I have a Generac 15KW propane standby generator and it has been very reliable - biggest maintenance issue was to remember to check the battery water when we changed the oil.  The battery is on a trickle charger and can lose water over the year.  Didn't discover this until the battery blew up.  The other issue we had was our propane supplier.  They "don't do generators" (propane ads notwithstanding).  Had to buy the tank (already had one 100 gallon tank, wanted another).........

Wayne

[Sprucegum]

In my experience propane didn't jell till temp got down to -20 or -15 with a wind. A little skirt around the tank and a pan full of charcoal briquets gets you going again. If you're going with it get a decent sized tank- 500 gal. - and be happy no matter how long the lines are down.

[submarinesailor]

If I remember the numbers correctly, the 17KW Guardian consumes about 2.56 gals of propane per hour at full load.  With a 250 gal tank full to 80%, that’s about 78 hours of full load.  I think it drops to about 1.6 at 50% load or 125 hours. 

Bruce

[Mr Mom]

I have thought about this and can get a 1000 gal tank from my dad.
Just doing research now.
Will be watching this post.
Thanks Alot Mr Mom

[Radar67]

There is an article in Mother Earth News this month that address emergency power. Propane is recommended in the article because it will not go bad from sitting around for years, it is not in high demand like gasoline and diesel during emergencies, and you can store large quantities in fairly small spaces.

Someone mentioned a national emergency and not being able to get propane or natural gas, in that senario, I would prefer a diesel powered generator. You can always filter and burn your used cooking oil, and if needed, make your own by rendering parts the game animals you will have to be using to survive or the oil from parked cars.

[beenthere]

In my experience propane didn't jell till temp got down to -20 or -15 with a wind. A little skirt around the tank and a pan full of charcoal briquets gets you going again. If you're going with it get a decent sized tank- 500 gal. - and be happy no matter how long the lines are down.

Would't think wind chill would affect an "object" like a propane tank, or could it?
No problem around here with propane and -30° F temps. But you've got me wondering...

[Larry]

Propane is recommended in the article because it will not go bad from sitting around for years, it is not in high demand like gasoline and diesel during emergencies, and you can store large quantities in fairly small spaces.

The day after the ice storm propane vanished...and you could not get tanks re-filled or find pre-filled tanks.  People use the small tanks for cooking and ventless space heaters.  I had two 30 pound tanks that I lent out just for that pupose.