Author Topic: Plane crash (Read 1337 times)

CLL · « **on:** January 17, 2009, 03:02:34 pm »

The man up above was sure watching over them people. What I really appreciate is the Captain saying it was the WHOLE crew that saved the passengers. The sad thing about it was the airport had hired people to kill enough geese until they decided it wasn't a good place to live. Seems the animal rights activist decided dead people was better than dead geese, and blocked the people hired. What have we come to??

sawguy21 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 17, 2009, 03:34:26 pm »

That pilot really kept his cool but I'll bet his cheeks had a death grip on the seat.

Unfortunately, birds are a fact of life around airports. The grass is kept short so there is a lot of insect activity and worms and grubs are easy pickings. Once the birds get used to them, sirens, fake predator calls and firearms are not much of a deterrent.

Ron Wenrich · « **Reply #2 on:** January 17, 2009, 03:50:41 pm »

I'm always curious how they get a plane like that out of the river.

stonebroke · « **Reply #3 on:** January 17, 2009, 04:32:58 pm »

A really big barge mounted crane. They put wide straps under the fuselage and wings andpick it up. Their problem at the moment is the current is to strong so they can only work at the change in tides. The plane is not going anywhere so they will get it out of the river. The tanks are not even leaking jet fuel.

Stonebroke

beenthere · « **Reply #4 on:** January 17, 2009, 04:46:58 pm »

Quote from: sawguy21 on January 17, 2009, 03:34:26 pm

That pilot really kept his cool but I'll bet his cheeks had a death grip on the seat. Unfortunately, birds are a fact of life around airports. The grass is kept short so there is a lot of insect activity and worms and grubs are easy pickings. Once the birds get used to them, sirens, fake predator calls and firearms are not much of a deterrent.

So, killing the bugs, insects, and worms would keep the geese away. Sounds possible.
Geese are going to be a continuing problem for us, and a plan to cut that population by about 90% would be a good one to start now. In the city's, they are beyond being a nuisance. They have taken over some city parks in Madison, so it is reported. Most other city's have large populations of the geese as well.

I'd heard it said that pilots turning the radar on would scare the birds off....not sure I can believe that one.

beenthere · « **Reply #5 on:** January 17, 2009, 04:59:57 pm »

Recent article on the plane, and removal.

http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/572977

Cedarman · « **Reply #6 on:** January 17, 2009, 06:17:58 pm »

I thought geese ate grass, not bugs. Need some geese growers to confirm or refute.

Shotgun · « **Reply #7 on:** January 17, 2009, 06:34:18 pm »

Quote from: Cedarman on January 17, 2009, 06:17:58 pm

I thought geese ate grass, not bugs. Need some geese growers to confirm or refute.

WHAT DO CANADA GEESE EAT?

on land - grasses, marsh grass, berries, seeds
in water - pond plants, tubers, roots, algae
also feed on crops like clover, alfalfa, wheat, rye, corn, barley, oats and grain left in farmers' fields after the harvest

Norm (Not a goose grower)

sawdust · « **Reply #8 on:** January 17, 2009, 07:42:45 pm »

They do NOT eat Canadians! Thought they have been known to pursue and bite golfers.

sawddust

metalspinner · « **Reply #9 on:** January 17, 2009, 09:56:47 pm »

A parent from my son's class was on that flight! She is fine and we are awaiting her arrival back into town. I'm sure she will tall her story to the class in time.

What amazed me was that nobody on those wings were holding their seat cushions as a floatation devise.

That splash landing was incredible.

VT · « **Reply #10 on:** January 17, 2009, 10:29:00 pm »

[quote ]

What amazed me was that nobody on those wings were holding their seat cushions as a flotation devise.

[/quote]
Airbus A320 has real inflators as with all Euro Aircraft. Only in North America and flying in NA is that BS allowed. (Controlled by Air traffic agency's around the world )

""Those targets had not been on the radar screen of the air traffic controller who approved the departure, Higgins said."" AP PAPER Quote

Theres the problem , not the Geese , No local Radar since Regan cut the budget for Air Traffic controllers .. Most Aerodrome's are blind to birds and small aircraft compared to first class air carriers having collision radar , thats for BIG aircraft , they can't see a Cessna till there on it

VT

But I commend the pilot , for the way he conducted and demanded of his crew ..

Needed to add the most important part.

Ianab · « **Reply #11 on:** January 17, 2009, 11:56:16 pm »

A security camera video that caught the actual crash, people getting out of the plane and the first rescue boats arriving.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9e6_1232166872

Dan_Shade · « **Reply #12 on:** January 18, 2009, 12:07:15 am »

it would take a pretty powerful and sophisticated radar system to see a single goose....

stonebroke · « **Reply #13 on:** January 18, 2009, 01:56:36 am »

The local radar actually saw the flock of geese(it was that big) but thought it was weather,

Stonebroke

Norm · « **Reply #14 on:** January 18, 2009, 08:24:01 am »

As a former goose owner they eat greens not bugs. Ducks are good bug eaters with some greens mixed in. After it would rain and the nightcrawlers came out the ducks would slurp them up like spaghetti.

Some years ago a NWA flight out of Sioux City hit a goose on takeoff. They were climbing out and it went through the windshield cutting up the PIC pretty bad. Turned around and landed safely.

Dan_Shade · « **Reply #15 on:** January 18, 2009, 08:52:01 am »

a flock is different from a single bird

jim king · « **Reply #16 on:** January 18, 2009, 09:14:05 am »

We live in Iquitos, Peru the biggest city in the world with no roads going to it. You either get here by air or 7-10 days by slow boat from the nearest road. For almost five years we had no air service in the daylight hours as we had thousands of buzzards in the area and the greenies would not let the soilders shoot them.

The city dump has now been moved 30 km out of town and no more or very few buzzards and now we have daylight flights. Now the Greenies want to move the dump back to town as it is currently within a mile of a river. Now it is time to send the solders after the Greenies.

Back to the real story that Captain and crew did and amazing job and showed what they were made of plus a bit of luck didnt hurt a thing.

snowman · « **Reply #17 on:** January 18, 2009, 09:28:11 am »

Simple solutin, hire a man with a shotgun to patrol runways and shoot every goose he sees.Geese are smart, they see thir buddies getting killed,they leave.These so called "humane" sirens and noise makers may save goose lives but are kinda hard on human lives. Added benefit is airlines could serve goose for lunch instead of 8 peanuts.

stonebroke · « **Reply #18 on:** January 18, 2009, 09:31:42 am »

USDA has a nuisance wildlife service that does just that. They have to be carefull with PETA around but I imagine they will be getting a lot less grief now.

Stonebroke

Gary_C · « **Reply #19 on:** January 18, 2009, 09:44:12 am »

Problem is that flock of geese were at 3000 feet according to reports. Kind of out of range of any body on the ground, except maybe Norm.

Now that the plane is out of the Hudson, I wonder what they will eventually do with it after the NTSB gets through with it. Suppose they rebuild it and send it back after more geese.

What I really wonder is how long before the #$%* insurance companies will pay the airline for that plane.

Dan_Shade · « **Reply #20 on:** January 18, 2009, 10:00:57 am »

I wondered that too, Gary, I wouldn't be surprised if it were overhauled and put back into service.

Jeff · « **Reply #21 on:** January 18, 2009, 10:04:06 am »

I'd be very surprised. Not that they couldn't or that it wouldn't be safe, but I would guess it will become an icon of interest at some point. A public exhibit.

Left Coast Chris · « **Reply #22 on:** January 18, 2009, 01:06:31 pm »

I was really impressed at how fast the current was and how the rescue boats were bobing and manuvering around the plane bringing in each person one at a time. At the same time swiftly going down river. Impressive.

VT · « **Reply #23 on:** January 18, 2009, 01:21:30 pm »

I'm thinking that plane if brought back into service would have more problems for what it's worth.
Think about your car , and trying to pay a shop to make it roadworthy again. That Plane is airworthy with much less of a percent overbuilt as to a car that is not weight bound. Then that plane is in salt water, and that alloy is for temp stress, not salt from inside the fuselage ..

Price per #

VT

Gary_C · « **Reply #24 on:** January 18, 2009, 02:40:21 pm »

I don't know if salt water is the major problem. I think that the part of the Hudson is actually an estuary with tide flows back and forth. Here may be a bigger problem from Wikipedia:

General Electric Corporation has been involved in a long lasting battle over the cleanup of Polychlorinated biphenyl contamination of the Hudson. According to the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA): "The General Electric Company discharged between 209,000 and 1.3 million pounds of polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) into the river from two capacitor manufacturing plants located in Hudson Falls and Fort Edward."

Other pollution issues affecting the river include: Accidental sewage discharges, urban surface runoff, heavy metals, furans, dioxin, pesticides, and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs).

Those passengers may never get their luggage back. It's probably considered toxic waste now.

I think the Hudson is a Superfund Cleanup site also. When they start digging for that missing engine, who knows what they could find. Maybe Jimmy Hoffa.

stonebroke · « **Reply #25 on:** January 18, 2009, 06:48:03 pm »

The PCB pollution is about 150 miles north. It is pretty much gone by the time you get to poughkeepsie about 50 miles north of the city, The water in NY harbor is surprisingly clean now adays except after a big rain event when the combined storm and sanitary sewers overwhelm the sewer plants. People actually swim and fish in the harbor on a regular basis.There is a lot of stuff on the bottom but most of it is buried in the sediments.

Stonebroke

rowerwet · « **Reply #26 on:** February 01, 2009, 02:53:14 pm »

As an aircraft mechanic I found the water landing to be a miracle,
-the A-320 is fly by wire it is flown by a joystick on the pilots left, it has no feedback! normal airplanes have control cables that are connected to the flight controls and give "feel" to the pilot, just like your steering wheel gives you in the car.
-water landings have a low chance of such success, I have only heard of one other landing that went so well and it was back in the '50s, look on Utube for other water landings that have been caught on video. (bad)
-the A320 has engines on the wing making a water landing even more dangerous, suprisingly only one engine sheared off as the engeneers designed them to in a water landing.
-the pilot is a gliding pilot instructor, the best type to have in this case. A regular pilot would most likely have tried for teeterborough, I flew over that airport at 3,000 feet two weeks ago, he couldn't have made it since he was at 900 feet by the time he cleared the George Washington bridge.
the rescue review will leave the police, fire, coast guard with red faces as they were to late to do any real rescues, the circle line ferrys were the first three boats there, they were also the best possible as they have bow and stern thrusters and could easily keep station with plane as it drifted down the river, a regular boat would have to keep backing out and coming in as the wind would push them more than the plane. The only police that realy were needed to rescue were the police divers who jumped out of the helicopter to pull two women out of the river who were almost overcome with hypothermia. (the water was 35*)
the next boat to the scene was "the beast" a turbine powered speed boat also owned by circle line that can do 120 on the water, for the ultimate rush and a couple grand you can get a ride. The captain of that boat saved a few people also.
the emergency boats took almost 20 min to respond, mostly they had to keep the plane drifting out to sea and becoming a hazzard to navigation.
The geese were at about 3,000 feet and miles from laguardia so no amount of patrol could have stopped this accident, shooting geese who infest local golf courses and parks would have helped.
The plane is a write off, aviation insurance is cheap and quick to pay as claims are not very common. You are in multiple times more danger walking or driving your car than flying, even in a light piston plane (70% of the accident rate is from them). Commercial pilots go for training once a year and part of that training is in a simulator where scenarios like this will be thrown at them with out notice, control failures, engine failures, instrument failures, etc. they want you to sweat, and learn. You can bet this scenario will be thrown at crews randomly from now on to see if they make the same choices
Amazingly enough until a few years ago the captain would be facing retirement in two years, (age 60) now he can fly until 65 as long as the other crew member is under 60.
Not grabbing the seat cushion bottoms is a Flight attendant/ passenger problem, if you fly pay attention to the safety briefing, it is there for a reason. count the rows to the nearest exit, if possible go toward the rear to get there, most people will try to get out through the same door they came in through. remember the cabin may be dark or smoky, there are leds in the floor to guide to a exit. the seat backs will fold forward when pushed hard, a better route as everyone else will be in the isle. don't bring any carry on luggage (something that did happen in NY). Try to keep your shoes with you, you can't wear them on an emergency slide, but will want them on the ground. there is a card in each seat back with this on it, read it if the crew indicates there is a problem.
Aircraft are made to be 150% stronger than the design load for flight, some components from this aircraft may make it back into the air, but very few after a salt water bath. This aircraft is done, it will be recycled back into other stuff, it could never fly again as the wiring is done for after its bath.
If you are intersted in more details or pictures look on the forum at airliners.net.

News:

Author Topic: Plane crash (Read 1337 times)