Author Topic: US shame (Read 5023 times)

bandmiller2 · « **on:** January 17, 2009, 07:53:55 am »

I bumble around with alot of wood people assume I know chainsaws and want to know what to buy.I hate to tell them but if you want a real good saw its not made here.[I know Stihl has a plant in Va.for consumer saws]Its a shame all we make is consumer box store crap.Please prove me wrong.Frank C.

snowman · « **Reply #1 on:** January 17, 2009, 08:57:33 am »

When I was a kid the fallers all used Macs, on the landing we used Homelites. Both were good saws then.When the euro saws came around mac and homelite decided to not keep up.They just turned into hardware store saws. Ill never really understand why.

argyle1 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 17, 2009, 09:15:51 am »

your dead right snowman,when i was starting out it was all mac,home-at-nite,and pioneer---i never understood why they just layed down and let the europeans take over

underdog · « **Reply #3 on:** January 17, 2009, 10:55:07 am »

We do not make much of anything in America anymore.
It seems to be more inviromentaly friendly (for us) and cost effective to have manufacturing elsewhere, and if they need some assurance of quality maybe assemble here.
And they wonder why this house of cards is folding up.

Cut4fun · « **Reply #4 on:** January 17, 2009, 11:12:58 am »

I think I read that the MS 361 and under is made in VA. I dont consider them consumer saws. They have a pro size price tag to go with them.

cheyenne · « **Reply #5 on:** January 17, 2009, 03:27:42 pm »

The only thing made in this country today is excuses....Cheyenne

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #6 on:** January 17, 2009, 03:49:12 pm »

My pro brush saws, Sthil 550, are German made. Anything under that model isn't productive enough to make it worth while for pre-commercial thinning. You might get bye with a 400 series, but I can cut yards around anyone with a lesser saw. Just don't have the torque in hardwood or softwood in the upper diameters.

sawcollector · « **Reply #7 on:** January 17, 2009, 06:12:46 pm »

The STIHL plant in Virginia Beach made almost 4 million units in 2008, and exported about 65% of that out of the country. Says something about not having unions and not being on the stock market.
I explained in another post the difference between a "pro, semi-pro, and homeowner" saw a while back, and just so everyone knows, the MS 260 and MS 361 are made here.
If the first digit of a STIHL serial number starts with a 1 it was made in Germany, a 2 it was made here, a 3 it was made in Brazil, and a 4 is China. No saws are being imported from China, I think maybe a hedge trimmer is all.
So you can get a quality US made saw if you want to.

Rocky_J · « **Reply #8 on:** January 17, 2009, 09:24:19 pm »

McCulloch and Homelite are no longer American companies. Both got bought out 20-25 years ago and are foreign owned names. This comes up about every 6 months and after a quarter century there are STILL people who think they are American companies.

sawcollector · « **Reply #9 on:** January 17, 2009, 09:35:02 pm »

Yes Rocky, the American saws are now Chinese, and a German saw is now American!

bandmiller2 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 18, 2009, 07:40:48 am »

I have been a fire dept. mechanic for thirty something years.When I started they had three Homelite chainsaws not new then.I had absolutely no trouble with them ,bouncing around in the trucks for years.Still kept one for old time sake they were safe enough for the old guys but the kids needed ones with the chain brake.Frank C.

Kodiakmac · « **Reply #11 on:** January 19, 2009, 06:56:39 am »

Well, with our unoly trinity of Big Government, Big Business and Big Unions, it's a wonder we're manufacturing anything on this Continent.

Bernhard · « **Reply #12 on:** January 19, 2009, 01:19:05 pm »

I know times in the 60/70`when homelite saws have been offered ind catalogues and having a saw wsn´t that common here then today, casue they have been very expensive.

Later on Homelite and McCulloch had been sold by agmachinery shops.

Then, when the first DIY markets came up thy made decission, to move over to this kind of salesnetwork and that was there fault.

By loosing sales they lost quality, too.

Al_Smith · « **Reply #13 on:** January 19, 2009, 04:45:38 pm »

You can blame a lot of reasons for manufacturing leaving north America I suppose .All NAFTA has done is speed things along . but it was already well under way before its' inception .

However if it were not economically advantageous to make things on these shores companies such as Stihl ,Honda ,Toyota and the like would not have build plants here .

It kind of stinks though when companies like Ford ,Chevy and others feel it's necessary to move off shore .The bottom line is profit .Of course there is also "cooking the books " too but that's another subject .

When McCulloch and Homelite no longer were leaders in small power equipment it was as stated because they failed to keep abreast of new methods and model types .It wasn't because the products weren't good at one time ,just became obsolete towards the end .Just a part of history with the exception of the few of us that collect and maintain a few examples of a bygone era .

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #14 on:** January 19, 2009, 04:53:34 pm »

My father cut a lot of wood on the farm with an old Partner chainsaw. When he couldn't buy a new one he went Husky. That was a good saw until some ass tightened down the spark plug and stripped the threads.

snowman · « **Reply #15 on:** January 19, 2009, 05:20:04 pm »

Quote from: Rocky_J on January 17, 2009, 09:24:19 pm

McCulloch and Homelite are no longer American companies. Both got bought out 20-25 years ago and are foreign owned names. This comes up about every 6 months and after a quarter century there are STILL people who think they are American companies.

I never knew that, interesting. So I guess the question is why did they sell to china? 25 years ago USA was still manufacturing alot of its own stuff. Seems odd to me chainsaws would be 1st thing off to china.And 25 years ago saws were big business, lots of looging and no feller bunchers. Seems like they let go of a good market,the mystery deepens.

cheyenne · « **Reply #16 on:** January 19, 2009, 07:21:46 pm »

One co will buy up another to protect and broaden market share or get a foothold in a market they don't curently have. I can understand Husky buying Josered but not McCullogh unless it was so cheap due to bankruptcy they had nothing to lose....Cheyenne

capt n cutz · « **Reply #17 on:** January 19, 2009, 08:32:36 pm »

Quote from: cheyenne on January 17, 2009, 03:27:42 pm

The only thing made in this country today is excuses....Cheyenne

I guess I kinda thought that John Deere owned Homelite now, or at least did couple years ago.
Curious, what the future of saws will be like. I bet Stihl will be around for some time, but Husky (which I do like) I don't know.

sawguy21 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 19, 2009, 10:16:55 pm »

J-D did own Homelite for a spell. They wanted the Jacobsen consumer line to flog through Home Despot. The story I heard was that they ran afoul of CARB for dumping non compliant product in California, they did not keep warranty registrations so there was no way to trace them. To avoid huge penalties the subsidiary filed for Chapter 7and was cut loose.
McCulloch failed a number of times and the majority was purchased from the last receivers by Husqvarna. They recently purchased the north American arm from the Chinese.

ladylake · « **Reply #19 on:** January 20, 2009, 05:00:45 am »

There's a lot of companys headed the same way as Mac and Homelite, using a good name the sell cheap junk to make money NOW. Steve

SawTroll · « **Reply #20 on:** January 20, 2009, 08:01:41 am »

Quote from: Cut4fun on January 17, 2009, 11:12:58 am

I think I read that the MS 361 and under is made in VA. I dont consider them consumer saws. They have a pro size price tag to go with them.

Yes, the 361s for NA and OZ is made in the US, at VA beach.

snowman · « **Reply #21 on:** January 20, 2009, 09:02:27 am »

Just looked at Homelite website. They do everything they can to make it look American. Only place I found a clue where it's made is that the comp is listed on Hong Kong stock exchange. Deceptive advertising I think.There should be a law, Bold red letters, WARNING, MADE IN CHINA!

sawguy21 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 20, 2009, 09:57:01 am »

I believe the plant is in North Carolina, that is where we order parts from.

snowman · « **Reply #23 on:** January 20, 2009, 10:32:40 am »

Sawguy that's all part of the evil plot i suspect. A mailing address in NC to fool people. Then your orders electronicaly swithed to China.The parts shipped to NC, repackaged and sent to you.This may sound paranoid, dillusional even but I bet it's true. $:-\$

weimedog · « **Reply #24 on:** January 20, 2009, 11:03:33 am »

I think those Homies are built here in the USA with corperate ownership in China...so really all the profit goes overseas.

AND I have to plug the little Ranger 33cc I bought as a joke four years ago for $60 bucks plus shipping on eBay. It has been used as a brush cutting saw, a carpentry tool, limbing saw, and countless other less than fun saw work. It has worn out dozen's of chains to nubbs along with a couple of bars; and its exactly what they advertise..Simply reliable. Is and has been an excellent tool.

So now it works just fine but is being retired to trail duty work only, by a new Husqvarna 440e...another saw thats supposed to be "Junk". I can only hope it is as tough and reliable as that litle Ranger.

And ..politics...you folks are right. Over the last 30 years we have had the Wall Street thru Washington political crowd drive the de-industrialization of our country. Dispersed our technological wealth like a dog digging thru trash and spreading anything of value all over the floor feeding on the good stuff to completion and leaving the rest for someone else to clean up. And we wonder why we are in a financial melt down? WE let it happen as a people. We did with our wallets and with our votes. What will our childern do for a living? How does a nation creat wealth for its people without technical and manufacturing capability? Ultimately how do we protect our future if there is no manufacturing infrastructure. None of this really thought about with that instant gratification mentality of the last 30 years. Those who are valued now are those who ride our history and ancestors work like rented mules. AND to add insult to injury..the bailout is targeted to those who would harness our work...thru taxes and interest.

snowman · « **Reply #25 on:** January 20, 2009, 11:35:57 am »

I saw a tiny homelite in home depot the other day for like 60 bucks yeah. Had that tiny chain and everything, looked like a toy. I may buy one to keep in wifes car when we go to town. 3 miles of dirt road with nobody living up there but us on new place im building. Seems like theres always something across the road, work fine for that I expect.

Cut4fun · « **Reply #26 on:** January 20, 2009, 01:13:23 pm »

If you guys are going to go on about consumer saws like the homey being made in china or USA.

The consumer Poulans say Made in USA right on them.

But you guys started off about Pro saws, not homeowner saws so I never said anything .

Al_Smith · « **Reply #27 on:** January 20, 2009, 01:34:31 pm »

I get a big kick out of people that ramble on about their so and so Stihl professional saw ,of how good it is and blah ,blah ,blah .

Then they mean mouth a Poulan of which 90 percent have never even seen ,fewer have owned and fewer yet ever used . Truth be known most of them other than the plastic cased Craftsman specials are not that bad of a saw for it's intended use .

However no saw ever made can sit in the corner of a garage with a tank full of funky fuel for 360 days out of the years and be expected to run correctly .

Somebody once made some wild statement they were only made to run about 20 hours .Where in the world did that come from ?

I've got few Poulans in the shed that get used rarely .Never really had much problems with them to tell the truth .

beenthere · « **Reply #28 on:** January 20, 2009, 02:20:49 pm »

A lot of truth in what you say Al.

I try to just support what I do like, and let others find out how well they like a different brand.

However, that said, I had a woodcutting partner that I felt real sorry for, as he had a Poulan. I'd be cutting with the Stihl and he'd be pullin the starter rope whether it was a cold saw, or worse, when it was warm and wouldn't restart. But then, maybe it was easier to pull on the starter rope, rather than cutting wood..

Like you stated so well, the care given the saw is likely the primary reason a saw will run good, or not. Less to do with brand than anything.

Received a Bailey's catalog (flier) today, and noted I didn't see one "Made in USA" comment on any of the items listed. Maybe that is not pc this day and age. But surely something in that catalog flier was made in USA, or Canada...

snowman · « **Reply #29 on:** January 20, 2009, 03:05:14 pm »

I bought a Homer in 1980 for a pre commercial thinning job.Logging was shut down kinda like now and that was only job I could get. I only had big falling saws so I bought cheapest little saw i could for thinning. It actually worked great for one summer, then it blew up.They are not made for steady use. If you want a saw for firewood, casual stuff around the home they are probably fine.

Al_Smith · « **Reply #30 on:** January 20, 2009, 03:35:13 pm »

Oh I'm a bigoted so and so about made in the USA but give Canada the same status .As much stuff comes hither as goes yon ,even Steven .I don't have much problem with Europian stuff either .Pacific rim or Mexico I only tolerate .

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #31 on:** January 20, 2009, 04:19:31 pm »

snowman, that must a been hard on the back thinning with a chainsaw. I tried it once for a week, 8 hour days and I only cut an acre. That's what brush saws were made for I figured afterward. Can cut up to an acre in natural and a acre and a half in plantation with a brush saw.

snowman · « **Reply #32 on:** January 20, 2009, 05:52:01 pm »

I had too google brush saw.

Dang, 1st snippers, now brush saws, no wonder chainsaws are near obselete. Actually though I don't think that would work in thinning around here, steep rugged ground and FS and state like 6 foot spacing, white pine considered in visible.As for my back, I've planted trees too, thats even worse!!!!! Hmmm maybe a machine for that now too? Ill google it.

mike_van · « **Reply #33 on:** January 20, 2009, 06:33:10 pm »

All 3 of my Homelites were made in the USA - The last one about 1972 -

I run 'em most everyday. A few weeks ago my daughter told me I was lost in the 60's - I can't understand why?

ErikC · « **Reply #34 on:** January 20, 2009, 08:41:30 pm »

The first saw I actually owned was a homelite 450. It was dad's, and he got a new stihl and gave it to me. I was about 15. It was pretty old, but a really good saw. I finally couldn't find a part I needed and had to give up on it. But the motor never failed and it had plenty of power. I think It had a 32"bar on it. They used to be good. Had stihls ever since.

Al_Smith · « **Reply #35 on:** January 20, 2009, 09:15:36 pm »

I'm tellen ya some of those old Homelites will run forever and still do a days work .

You probably wouldn't want to run one in a professional type situation but for occasional use they do just dandy . Depending on the size and class saws they aren't heavy as lead as most think .

For example taking 4 large saws Stihl 088 ,Husqvarna 3120 ,Homelite 2100 and McCulloch Sp 125 --they all weigh within a pound or two of one another .

ladylake · « **Reply #36 on:** January 21, 2009, 05:20:49 am »

I have been around a modern Poulan and Mac, friends and BIL saws. I could never make either one run right, tune them up right and cut for a little and they wouldn't start or run good again. Maybe it was a case of bad gas but the friend with the Mac only used 92 with no ethonal. I talked them both into better saws the run good without constant fussin. Steve

Al_Smith · « **Reply #37 on:** January 21, 2009, 05:57:11 am »

Well modern to me is less than 20 years old but everybody has their opinion .

I've tuned a few that were maybe 5 years old ,Poulans which model numbers escape me at the moment . Those had limiter caps on the carb screws 42-46 ccs' or so .

They ran okay after a little reworking of the limiters . Of course like most "modern " saws they had very restrictive mufflers so that is a big factor on how they do .

Going back to what I said though .Most sit around with a tank full of old gas and the carb innards get stiff as a board .

I would say that 90 percent of all saws people drag into me to repair have screwed up carbs ---or the breather filters are packed full of sawdust and peple wonder why they won't run ,mercy me .

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #38 on:** January 21, 2009, 06:13:05 am »

snowman, 6-7 foot spacing here to. Anything over 35% and I don't even want a chainsaw in my hand. We thinned Blue Bell mountain last year, well 90 acres of it. It was like thinning on a cow bell.

timber tramp · « **Reply #39 on:** January 21, 2009, 09:30:18 am »

>>Anything over 35% and I don't even want a chainsaw in my hand.

We've got parks steeper than that

.

Don't blame you though, steep ground is a different animal altogether.

TT

sunriseseamless · « **Reply #40 on:** January 21, 2009, 12:50:17 pm »

Has anyone used ECHO saws? A local shop sells this brand. A friend bought one there and loves his. I bought a leaf blower there and it hasn't given me any trouble for three or four years.
Their website says they are made in Illinois.
If they are good quality and US made, maybe we should rally behind them?

Ianab · « **Reply #41 on:** January 21, 2009, 03:11:51 pm »

The Echo saws seem to have a good name in the smaller range saws. They are popular here for pruning and thinning size machines. (30-40cc).

The bigger saws appear to be perfectly OK, but just dont really compare with the best that Stihl, Husky and Dolmar have to offer.

Ian

Although I'm not really sure why you would need a Camo Chainsaw

http://www.echo-usa.com/product.asp?Model=CS-330MX4&Category=CHAINSAW

cheyenne · « **Reply #42 on:** January 21, 2009, 03:18:36 pm »

So you can sneek up on the tree....Cheyenne

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #43 on:** January 21, 2009, 03:35:10 pm »

Possibly to deter theft. Those orange saws are kind of easy to find at times.

As far as brush saws, the Echo has a better warrantee than the others on pro models.

Rocky_J · « **Reply #44 on:** January 21, 2009, 04:33:08 pm »

Ahh, warranty. That piece of paper valued by those who don't own a screwdriver and pay somebody else to do all their mechanical work on everything they own with a motor.

In 43 years I cannot recall ever making a warranty claim on anything outside of minor defects discovered in the first week of ownership. Therefore when buying something I ignore the warranty and instead look at the quality and value of the item. For people like myself warranty means less than nothing. So forgive me if I never mention warranty when offering an opinion on a piece of equipment.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #45 on:** January 21, 2009, 05:00:35 pm »

Well it makes a difference when its a day's pay lost and a angle gear costs over $200 or a clutch spring over $100 and handle bar close to $150. We keep old saws for parts, but some stuff you have to replace and old clutch springs and angle gears from spare saws are usually warn bad if your cutting any amount a ground. I mean 80 + acres, not 4 or 5. Warrantee means a lot to me when I'm on the end of one of those $1400 saws. Our dealers have been the best to deal with, not fits or double talk, just go at it, fix it and your off in less than 30 minutes. I never had to leave a saw yet, if I did I'd be offered this one over here until I got back the end of the next day.

Cut4fun · « **Reply #46 on:** January 21, 2009, 06:39:32 pm »

Isn't warranty on you commercial cutters only 90 days anyways?

Brian_Rhoad · « **Reply #47 on:** January 21, 2009, 07:41:17 pm »

I have never made a warranty claim on a chainsaw, but I think the length of a warranty tells you something about the saw. If the manufacturer gives a longer warranty they must feel they have a better product. The longer the warranty the more chance there is of having more claims and loosing money for the manufacturer.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #48 on:** January 21, 2009, 08:07:04 pm »

Quote from: Cut4fun on January 21, 2009, 06:39:32 pm

Isn't warranty on you commercial cutters only 90 days anyways?

90 on Sthil and Husky, 1 year on Echo. Thus my comment above. Many of us in the thinning business buy new every year, sometimes every other. Those with a lot of old saws on the same model may work one as long as 3 on spare parts. The trouble arrives when the old model is discontinued and your inventory of parts are no longer of use.

As to Brian's comment, usually yes, but in this case I can't bash Sthil or Husky. It's just that their warrantee doesn't even carry for a season.

zackman1801 · « **Reply #49 on:** January 21, 2009, 10:28:17 pm »

it will always amaze me what people will pay to get warantees or free stuff when they buy things. People will choose lesser power saws, just so that they can get a free case, or a free hat, or make sure that it comes with such and such length warantee, your better off just getting what you need and not worrying about what stuff comes with it.

Its really a shame that all of the companies gave up and sent their jobs overseas. Ever since McCulloch, Poulan, and all of the other older name brand saw companies sent their plants to china the quality has of course seen a huge plummet. It seems that most companies these days are worried less and less about the consumer and more and more about the quick money that they can make by selling cheapo junk for much much more than they are making in for.....capitalism is sad

Red 93 L1 #3383 · « **Reply #50 on:** January 22, 2009, 02:20:30 am »

Personally I don't care where something is made. All I care about is quality & price. If the US wants companies to make more stuff here we need the Gov. to quit stealing from them ( taxes ) & putting up so much red tape making it almost impossible to build a facility in an area where there are people to do the work. Taxes & other gov. mandated fees are just figured into the final price of the product anyways along with wages, materials, operational costs, shipping... I've seen to much stuff "Made in the USA" that was inferior to stuff "Made in China, Hong Kong, Japan, Brazil..." If Stihl can make a Pro Saw in Germany cheaper than they could make the same saw in the US & pass the savings on to us the consumer I'm all for it. If I walked into my Stihl dealer and they had 2 of the same saws: same model, same power, same bar, same warrenty, made to same quality control standards... but one was $100 cheaper because it was made overseas, I'd save a hundred bucks in a heartbeat.

mike_van · « **Reply #51 on:** January 22, 2009, 06:43:24 am »

Quote from: Red 93 L1 #3383 on January 22, 2009, 02:20:30 am

If the US wants companies to make more stuff here we need the Gov. to quit stealing from them ( taxes ) & putting up so much red tape making it almost impossible to build a facility in an area where there are people to do the work. Taxes & other gov. mandated fees are just figured into the final price of the product anyways along with wages, materials, operational costs, shipping... .

I agree with you Red, the cost of doing business here can be staggering. It starts right at the local level with town/city government, and goes all the way to the top.

snowman · « **Reply #52 on:** January 22, 2009, 08:58:56 am »

USA has 2nd highest tax rate in the world for corporations. Two things about this are, 1 no wonder they go everseas, you can't compete with corps that pay way less tax than you in a world market. 2, corps don't pay tax, you do, the tax is built into the price of whatever they produce. Corp tax is really a back door tax on you the consumer. Tax cost is figured in with labor cost, fuel cost, insurance etc etc etc. You pay!

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #53 on:** January 22, 2009, 03:46:37 pm »

The consumer still pays, no matter what shore it is made on. A $150 pair of Canadian brand shoes that was moved to Asia, will still cost you $150. So the consumer saves nothing, only if it's a look alike brand made of cheap inferior material. And that is all too familiar with a big black market that has mushroomed.

blackoak · « **Reply #54 on:** January 23, 2009, 09:05:43 am »

Quote from: capt n cutz on January 19, 2009, 08:32:36 pm

Quote from: cheyenne on January 17, 2009, 03:27:42 pm
The only thing made in this country today is excuses....Cheyenne

I guess I kinda thought that John Deere owned Homelite now, or at least did couple years ago.
Curious, what the future of saws will be like. I bet Stihl will be around for some time, but Husky (which I do like) I don't know.

The Husqvarna company has been in business since the mid 1800's. They are not going anywhere.

Al_Smith · « **Reply #55 on:** January 23, 2009, 04:38:56 pm »

I think Husqvarna made long ships for the Vikings . They are nearly as old if not older than Krupp of Germany . They have been around longer than chainsaws have .

zackman1801 · « **Reply #56 on:** January 23, 2009, 09:17:34 pm »

yeah they used to make motorcycles and other small engines, and they got started making firearms.

Of course companies are going to charge way more for stuff than they make it for, how else would they be able to afford their summer homes on the coast of mass?

Cut4fun · « **Reply #57 on:** January 24, 2009, 09:06:09 am »

Quote from: SwampDonkey on January 22, 2009, 03:46:37 pm

The consumer still pays, no matter what shore it is made on. A $150 pair of Canadian brand shoes that was moved to Asia, will still cost you $150. So the consumer saves nothing, only if it's a look alike brand made of cheap inferior material. And that is all too familiar with a big black market that has mushroomed.

That happened with my Rocky boots.
I used to drive down and spend a day in the town where the plant was in Ohio and buy shoes and more thinking how it helped the USA worker there.
Last time there years ago one of the pairs had made in china in it and was advised all shoes were heading that way.
I haven't been back since, so they lost more then just a shoe sale in that town.

Bernhard · « **Reply #58 on:** January 25, 2009, 03:08:59 am »

I guesse it is time, to help You to wipe out the tears a bit!

Not sure if anyone has posted this befpre me..didn´t matter.

Ok...for the homelite I´m not sure, who is making it. But McC has been sold up by Electrolux a large scandinavian (swedish) Company. They make household products (E-Lux, Whirlpool, AEG ) Motorbikes (Husqvarna) and own the Partner, Husky, Jonsereds and McCulloch names and plants...

McC has been sold off to E-Lux with their european division in Italy...not sure about the US, and the far east by Talon (korean?)

I have seen the Talon McC at a DIY market, compared to the E-Lux McC it is totally Junk they disappeared as fast as they appeared, not sure if they still are offered here.

BTW: When I was a kid the guy which owned a Ford Mustang or Chevy was a rich guy, then the Chevy Camaros showed up in Germany and had been awfully cheap, compared to a germann sportscar.

But the problem of the american companies was, they didn´t care for Export and if they made a small car (AMC Gremlin??) or Chrysler Neon it ended in a desaster.

You must know that 55 mph is appr. 88 km/h. Speedlimit for interstate Trucks is 80 km/h but most of them do 90.

I´m not sure, if Chrysler is doing themself a Favour by the cooperation with Fiat, cause they are sick, too.

They made the same fault then the big 3 in the US, selling under different brands, other design with same technology.

The Chrysler was the best selling US brand here. First company which invented the Van type car by the Voyager and they have a very good reputation, if You compare the price and the value for the money.

snowman · « **Reply #59 on:** January 25, 2009, 09:09:29 am »

Corp tax 101

Widgets R us makes widgets at a cost of $10.00. This includes labor, material, insurance, factory, heat, lights, etc etc etc. They sell widgets for $11.00. Now some politician comes along and taxes said widget comp at a rate that = $1.00 for every widget produced. There goes the profit. Now widgets are sold for $12.00, you pay the tax, widget company just passes it on.

sharp edge · « **Reply #60 on:** January 25, 2009, 12:42:56 pm »

In this country ball players and Hollywood get the big bucks and the awards. In Japan Henry Ford and people like him made the "top ten list", in the "60" when I was there. So we end up with the best ball players and movies. Japan ends up with the best cars.

SE

sunriseseamless · « **Reply #61 on:** January 26, 2009, 07:41:15 pm »

Ronald Reagan's view of the economy

Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.

cheyenne · « **Reply #62 on:** January 26, 2009, 07:44:06 pm »

You can't argue with a man when he's right.....Cheyenne

Dave Shepard · « **Reply #63 on:** January 26, 2009, 08:56:23 pm »

Google oldest companies. Very interesting. We've been getting a lot of Stora Enso lumber from the lumber yard lately. It's from Sweden, they've been around since 1288.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #64 on:** January 27, 2009, 05:22:58 am »

They are in Nova Scotia I know. I think they have been faultering there though like all the other foreign outfits. It sold all it's NA paper Mills in 2007 to Ohio-based NewPage Holding Company for $2.52 billion. A year before at the Hawkesbury mill they had a restructuring and said they had reduced operating cost around labour, energy and taxes. Once again, another foreign mill asking the public to take the hit to increase their bottom line.

News:

Author Topic: US shame (Read 5023 times)