Author Topic: Forcat 2000 VS Conventional Log skidder (Read 17560 times)

Good Feller · « **on:** November 17, 2008, 03:12:18 pm »

Well I went through and marked my TSI job. Aint no way a four wheeler is going to pull logs off this site. The logs are too big and the ground too steep. It would be a waste of time and torture on my 4 wheeler. What I think would be useful is a machine called a forcat 2000. Does anyone have experience with one? What's a new one cost and what are the pros and cons? Looks like they'd be handy for small scale logging and thinnings. I also like the fact that it's light enough to be hauled with the truck and trailer that I currently have. I've heard other people say that it is better to buy a used small log skidder such as a John deere 440 for the price of a Forcat. I really don't want to buy a 20-30 year old log skidder that's on it's last leg. That scares me to spend that much money on something that old. I am also not a mechanic. I think any 30 year old machine would be nothing more than a maintenance project. On top of that, I have no way to haul it.

Maineloggerkid · « **Reply #1 on:** November 17, 2008, 04:38:25 pm »

You can find old machines that have been maintained that will run forever, but if you want new machinery, and can pay the price, thats good too.

I actually think that you could get a small skidder cheaper than the forcat, but I don't really know. The forcat looks like a good machine, but I have never seen one in person.

timberfaller390 · « **Reply #2 on:** November 17, 2008, 05:29:36 pm »

I haven't actually played with one but I have done a pretty good bit of research on them. Personally I would rather invest my money in a small skidder or a dozer like a 350 john deere. Either one will pull way more than the forcat after all it only has a 27 hp engine. There are a couple of other threads discussing the forcat and a youtube video just search "forcat 2000" on youtube. I think for what you are doing a small dozer with winch would be a way better investment than the forcat. Also consider a 4x4 farm tractor.

zackman1801 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 17, 2008, 06:05:51 pm »

i would also suggest a small skidder or dozer. The forcat costs alot new, they have small engines and i can imagine finding parts would not be easy unless you found a dealer close to you. With older used skidders such as TJ or JD you can find one for cheap (used TJ's go for about 6-7K around here) and parts and service are easy to be had. Also a dozer can also be used for plowing and earth smoothing, the forcat would most likely have a hard time with that since it has a small blade like a skidder. They also seem to have winches that are a tad bit underpowered. they look like neat little machines but not something you want to stake your livelihood on or even your business. if your going to get into commercial grade logging your going to need professional grade tools. Just how big is this wood? and how steep is the ground?

Ironwood · « **Reply #4 on:** November 17, 2008, 08:10:52 pm »

I recently looked at a Ditch Witch articulated four cylinder (Ford) 45 HP diesel, hydraulic drive over shafts, four wheel drive with a nice six way blade and a backhoe above that. The trencher had been removed and looked like it would make an AWSOME smallish skidder. All it needed was a winch/ fairlead on the back, $4500 bucks (way cheap and way cool and versitile). I think it weighed about 7000, which is PERFECT for behind a 450-550 truck. If I could swing it financially I'de all over it. Overall dimensions, 6.5' wide, and maybe 15' long on four 11-28ish sized tires, with a set of chains and a winch you'de be pulling, digging, leveling, skidding and trenching. For me this would be perfect for a small farm where you don't want to tear up my 24 HP tractor skidding logs. Look around, you find something more versitile than just a skidder.

Ironwood

thecfarm · « **Reply #5 on:** November 17, 2008, 08:24:57 pm »

A couple things that turned me off,12½ inches ground clearance,25hp motor,2770 pounds.Not much weight for twitching logs that are big you stated.I priced one at an Expo.I forgot the price,but it was a sticker shock. Nice machine if someone has the money and the time to use it.I don't feel it would be a machine that would bring a good amount of wood out at any one time to make the payments.I would like to have one for my place.But that won't happen with the money I have now.

Maineloggerkid · « **Reply #6 on:** November 17, 2008, 08:27:10 pm »

The Forcat in 2 words---- Special purpose.

wi woodcutter · « **Reply #7 on:** November 17, 2008, 08:52:21 pm »

i agree with mainelogger and zachman i think a small dozer or a good older skidder would be the way to go. with the dozer you could also use it to maintain roads.

Woodhog · « **Reply #8 on:** November 17, 2008, 09:21:44 pm »

Try a 4WD used farm tractor with a winch . You only have 30 acres and it might be easier to get rid of when you finish up the piece... If it is a long distance to the landing you could also get a forestry trailer with a loader to haul it out with.

bkellyvtme · « **Reply #9 on:** November 17, 2008, 09:40:43 pm »

Wouldn't the Awassos skidder fall into the same category as this Forcat? "Special Niche Machines". I don't think anyone could pull out enough wood to feed the family or pay for either machine. I looked at the Forcat website and it says that you can get to those hard to reach "swamp cedars and veneer timber". I think if I have to go into a swamp to get wood it is not a good thing. Just my thoughts.

zackman1801 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 17, 2008, 10:37:48 pm »

someone posted here a bit ago that they went to get wood and the guy had a mini skidder, well the pulp truck got stuck and they tried to winch it out, they ended up pulling the skidder to the truck. The mini skidder is nice because its got special features but its not got the power to pull enough logs to justify its price.

BTW i think the forcat is somewhere around 25-30K i thought i read it on a dealer website. kinda crazy. i really feel that this macine has little purpose, if someone is going to be logging small scale then they arent going to be able to afford the machine, and if someone is going to be trying to log in a big operation then they are going to be left behind when the big machines show up. Plus its too expensive for firewood guys.

if you want more than a skidder go with a tractor or a dozer, both have multiple purposes, but you have to be really careful with tractors on hills especially with big logs. a dozer would suit your needs, as long as speed isnt an issue for you.

Good Feller · « **Reply #11 on:** November 18, 2008, 03:19:31 am »

You guys have made a lot of good points. Seems like everyone would gladly take a forcat if given one though. The price is just a huge turn off.

I'm starting to get some timber stand improvment jobs. Instead of leaving some of the low quality logs in the woods to rot,,, I was wanting to harvest them and sell as pallet or ties. It might not even be worth the extra effort to harvest this low quality wood. Someone asked about size of wood,, some of these trees are up to 20" dbh. We are talking $0.30 bd/ft delivered.

I've thought about getting a small dozer. What sizes would work well for a small operation? Are they any good in ice/snow? A small dozer would be half the price of the forcat.

Thanks for the info. I'm not going to buy tomorrow. Just wanting to get some ideas.

Kodiakmac · « **Reply #12 on:** November 18, 2008, 06:09:13 am »

Well, you can probably pick up a small used dozer cheap enough, but I've used dozers to skid and I have a few comments: slow, rough, and the logs are really in the mud unless you rig up some kind of a skidding arch...and that can be cumbersome to manoeuver.

No, I'd be looking at a small used skidder...maybe a nice little gas job. There are some 200 TJ's and C4 TFs that pop up now and then for under $10K Cdn...and I think JD night have made a 440 or 340 with a petrol burner.

The Awassos (stupid name) skidders seem like nice rigs but they're out of my price range ($50-60K)

Maineloggerkid · « **Reply #13 on:** November 18, 2008, 07:00:44 am »

For your lot, a john deere 350C dozer would be good. I have skidded wood with one. Kodiak is right, though- i has its downsides. ONe downside is the same as a tractor, they are easier to tip over backwards unless you have a winch or small arch. Trust me, I've done it.

You can find dozers with winches and small skidder arches mounted right onboard, and those are real good setups. My dad and uncle used to run a logging operation with a 1010 deere dozer, and they even cut big pine with it. A 1010 is even samller than a 350, and it has a gas motor.

timberfaller390 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 18, 2008, 07:48:05 am »

Those old deeres were small but they could do a pile of work. When I was still working for the Forestry Commission my dozer that was set up to fight fire was a 350C. I loved that little dozer, I could take that little machine anywhere. As a matter of fact when the state retired it about 2 years after I quit working there, they called me to come load up my "baby" for its last ride to the bone yard.

Good Feller · « **Reply #15 on:** November 18, 2008, 11:17:48 am »

Got some info back from Forcat, here's what they said:

*The price for the gas model is $28,000.00 CDN and the shipping would be aprox $1000.00. (I think that's about $23,630 USD.)

*The best way to describe the Forcat’s performance is that it is similar to a single horse logging show.

*It has a hydraulic back plate that works as a brake to keep the machine from getting pulled backwards when winching.

*Most parts are off the shelf parts such as the Koller engine, White and Dan Foss hydraulic motors. There is a 1 year warrantee on the machine, and the Koller manufactures warranty on the motor. The Forcat is made in Qubec.

*We sold one to Allan Smith (smithhugalogger@dishmail.net) in Montana

*If your ground disturbance parameters, your trail widths, and nontargeted stem retention parameters can be met using the 440 John Deere the John Deere will significantly out produce the Forcat.

nas · « **Reply #16 on:** November 18, 2008, 11:48:55 am »

Looks like a great little unit for logging eastern cedar or firewood. The fact that you could haul it on a utility trailer is nice too. If I could find a used one... The new price doesn't seem to bad considering a new conventional skidder is I believe well over 100k?

Nick

zackman1801 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 18, 2008, 12:34:17 pm »

yes for a brand new skidder that is much much bigger you could pay or 100 grand but for a used medium sized skidder you could get one for 10-15k and even cheaper than that around here.

ive seen arches similar to a skidder arch welded right to the winch drum and the back of the skidder. ive also seen tow behind arches, both work extremely well if you know how to use them. There is an old guy around here who uses and old dozer and arch and produces as much wood in a week then the guys who use skidders, just because he knows what hes doing and can use the arch well. Dozers work well in snow they spread the weight out and the tracks dont sink like tires. usually what we do is if we get alot of snow or have to break a skid trail in the winter, we take the dozer out to get the first load, drag it back with that and then use the skidder once the trail is packed in a little bit.

Kodiakmac · « **Reply #18 on:** November 18, 2008, 02:57:48 pm »

Something else you might consider is a used Bombardier - they're a dime a dozen up here. Same steering clutch/brake setup as the Forcat. Ones I've seen come with 4 or 6 cylinder Chrysler engines...I think some may have GM or Ford engines as well.

Some of them are already rigged for skidding with a winch and fairlead. I've seen 2 of them in the past few weeks for sale. One of them near Lac Des Loups, QC in VERY nice shape. If interested I have owner's name and ph. #...he only speaks French. He also has a used 230 TJ and an old C4...he wants too much for the skidders...didn't ask about the Bombardier.

Ironman · « **Reply #19 on:** November 18, 2008, 04:06:31 pm »

In my opinion when you are buying equipment, there are several factors that you can ignore at your peril.

1. Never take chances when it comes to getting what you need. Anytime you get something else it always costs you time and money. Most of the guys I know log to pay the rent, so getting the wrong machine is not an option.

2. 'Never' go with a unproven brand or technology (in this case both factors apply) when you can go with something that is tried and true for same or less money. By tried and true I am refering to a John Deere, TimberJack, Franklin or CAT.

3. Never forget that when it comes to buying equipment, always go with the better brand, even if it costs a little more in the beginning. No matter what happens, at least it will have some resale value at the end of the day. Many loggers will retire with only the value of their equipment to serve them as some kind of retirement savings/equity. Bearing that in mind would you rather have sweated and strained to pay off a Forcat 2000 (huh?) or a John Deere 540? Beleive me there are thousands of guys looking to buy a JD tractor at any given time. The Forcat 2000, well probably a few less.

4. When in doubt, buy what everyone else is buying. There is a reason why CAT equipment sells better and for more money than anything else. There is a reason why Harley Davidson sells for more money than any other bike on the road.

The answer in my opinion is a no-brainer. No disrespect intended to those who favor these kind of innovations. We certainly need innovators. But keep in mind that loggers have a tough enough go as it is. They certainly can't afford to gamble on equipment that is less than proven. There are lots of great, smaller, tried and true cable skidders that can get the job done and will run forever, if properly maintained. I include among them the 440 JD Skidder, the 508/518 CAT Skidder, the TJ 230A and the Franklin 405. All of these machines are very light and can be had for about $15,000 in a ready to go condition.

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Author Topic: Forcat 2000 VS Conventional Log skidder (Read 17560 times)