Loggers, what are the traits you value in foresters?

[Texas Ranger]

A mill owner I know had this sign in his office:  "The mill industry is run by two emotions, Greed and Avarice".  He fought to keep his mill straight, but had a scaler that was shorting one load and putting the "logs" on his buddies ticket.  It took months to figure out the shortages at the gate.  Scaler and logging buddy were canned, but no charges as there was no physical evidence.

It is all ethics, ya got em, or ya don't.

[Gary_C]

I started off wondering why this thread wasn't getting much attention.  Now I'm wondering how it turned into a debate about thievery.  

I wondered that myself.   

Since starting these two threads Brandon has been absent from this discussion.  Probably because he is looking for a new major to get away from all these crooked foresters and loggers.

I also wondered why my name got attached to this question of how to steal timber. As I said previously, things are different here in Minnesota. Plus I don't know the answer to the question and don't care to. I'm too busy cutting the jobs I bought to try to steal something I don't own. 

If that makes me naieve and/or isolated, then good for me. 

[SwampDonkey]

I also wondered why my name got attached to this question of how to steal timber.

It wasn't used in the way that you are inferring. You were being addressed by name followed by a clarification or scenario in an argument spawned by a previous post.

[Corley5]

Probably the biggest form of timber theft up here is simply not paying for logs cut.  Train loads leave the property and if the landowner isn't there to keep track of what's going out.... and if the logger or buyer know they aren't home    It happens too often 

[BrandonTN]

I appreciate this board, and did not intend to create fighting.....or, atleast, if my thread did create some fighting, I had hoped it would not be too brutal and all would benefit once the dust settled. Kind of like what DanG, said.
I always tend to learn something every time I spend some time reading on it. There's lots of experience on the board I respect...loggers and foresters.

Since starting these two threads Brandon has been absent from this discussion.  Probably because he is looking for a new major to get away from all these crooked foresters and loggers.

 ......nah, there are crooks everywhere.

[Gary_C]

I appreciate this board, and did not intend to create fighting.....or, atleast, if my thread did create some fighting, I had hoped it would not be too brutal and all would benefit once the dust settled.

Aw, we ain't fighting. Some of us oldtimers just do this for entertainment, or to take potshots at guys from Texas.   

[Texas Ranger]

Yankee's are like hemroids, nah, wont go there. 

Texans return fire.

[Gary_C]

Texans return fire.

Yep. there sure is a strong wind that comes from Texas. 

[Brian Beauchamp]

I don't consider them to be carpenters and I get kind of sensitive when people group me with them.

...just think how Jesus feels!

[thompsontimber]

Having experience on both sides of this issue, I have already posted in the forester's side of this question.  On the logging side, I believe most loggers want their forester to be knowledgable about logging...understand his logging costs and what he can and can't do...I can't recall all the times I have worked a logger that says to me something along the lines of "I can tell you have worked in the woods before because you didn't ask me to do the impossible."  They would give me examples of how a forester would require a tract to be harvested with poorly located deck areas with skid distances that weren't practical, etc etc.  More foresters need to understand what can and can't be done and when it is done, at what cost.  Therein lies the next issue, with a poor understanding of logging rates.  A procurement guy buys Tract A and Tract B with the same stumpage basis, then asks the logger to log them at the same logging rate, but Tract B costs twice as much to log as Tract A.  Next thing you know, a logger is forced to turn down the job and perhaps have no where else to go, or accept it at a rate he knows he cannot be profitable (you can imagine the horrors that might follow in that scenerio). Having worked the procurement end, I know that too many on that side view the logging force with disdain and look no farther than the bottom line.  They attempt to log cheap and cheaper, and hold loggers hostage with thin profit margins and indebtedness to the procurement company.  I had to answer to those types, and it really got to me as I come from a logging background.  The backbone of the industry is too often held under foot by the profiteers.  Loggers want most a forester that will give them a fair shake through fair rates and reasonable expectations.  Everything else then takes care of itself.