ATV Logging

[Good Feller]

I've got a 500 Suzuki Vinson that I would like to try skidding smaller logs with.  I'm getting ready to do TSI on 30 acres of timber.  I'll be cutting a lot of white ash. 

 I would like to hear some thoughts about atv logging and what kind of skidding set up works best. 

[Jeff]

A quick forum search for atv logging will return all sorts of stuff.

[RSteiner]

The use of an arch would be easier on the machine, keep the logs cleaner, and allow you to move larger pieces.

Randy

[Good Feller]

I'm thinking about making a skid plate or sled.   I'll be cutting tie logs 8 1/2' long and 13"-15" in diameter.  If this doesn't work well then I guess the logs can rot in the woods.  I'm definately not wasting time cutting it into firewood either,, can't give that stuff away.   

Those log arches look unhandy in the woods.   Would be a pain trying to back up or turn around etc.  Looks like they work great on clear/level ground, btw where do I find timber like that???    

[beenthere]

........... btw where do I find timber like that???    

Timber like what? 
I was thinking you had good timber in your part of Iowa. ??

Skid plates have been made from older car hoods...but then one still has to get them back out in the woods and poked around to the end of the log. LogRite arch might be just as easy, seeing it can be done by hand, and then just back with the ATV, hook up to the arch and go. I can see hills would cause some concern going down, with a log/arch pushing a bit too much. Going up, not as much a problem as long as there is enough weight on the ATV for traction.  Which ATV do you have? [Edit: just found it in post #1]

Surprised you don't have a firewood market in Iowa. I think your temps have been as cold or colder than this part of Wisconsin. Then again, maybe firewood is easy to obtain from the woods for those with the gumption to go get it.

[Jeff]

If this doesn't work well then I guess the logs can rot in the woods.     

There's a fine statement to add to your Forestry portfolio.

As for arches, if you get the right one, they are a joy to work with.

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,33351.msg482157.html#msg482157

[cheyenne]

I pull logs every day with a honda 500 foreman some 30ft. long. Mostly 10 to 20 ft. Uphill & downhill. Are you sure your in the right business to make you happy ??...Cheyenne

[Good Feller]

My forestry portfolio rocks.  It's full of all kinds of foot-in-the-mouth statements! 
 I'd like to try the skid plate first, that's cheaper/ easier to make.  Then throw some weights on the front and back racks.  Does anyone use atv tire chains and can you tell much of a difference?  Someone once told me tire chains are hard on atvs??

[RSteiner]

Those log arches look unhandy in the woods.   Would be a pain trying to back up or turn around etc.  Looks like they work great on clear/level ground, btw where do I find timber like that???    
[/quote]

I made a logging arch well over 25 years ago it has seen a lot of use behind a small tractor and a Polaris ATV that is smaller than thte one you mention.  My arch is about 9 feet long and the width is close to the same as the ATV.  The length makes it easy to back up as the tires are positioned at the rear of the arch.  The weight of the whole thing makes it easy for one person to move it by hand if necessary.

The terrian where you are can not be all that different than the hills of New Hampshire.  I can pull more weight uphill with the arch than trying to skid a log along the ground, we have too many rocks, roots, and uneven ground which a log will get hung up on.  Going down hill is a bit more tricky but I can lower the rear of the log and let it drag as a brake but still keep the front end off the ground.

I built my arch for $60.00 back then, today it would probably cost around $120.00. 

Randy

[okie]

I dont know if it holds true everywhere, but here a guy can readily find boat trailers for little cost to free (got 4 lakes in the 40 miles surrounding me). I dont know what happens to the boats but you can find old trailers at the dumps and you dont have to drive more than 5 miles to find one in a yard and most folks will part with them for $50 or less, I have modified a bunch of these to suit various purposes ( will take pics of my mill trailer sometime and post).
 Any ways, I am now building a double arch trailer from one of them. It has an arch at  the front and rear. I cut the 4 cross members out of the trailer and took the axle and leaf spring out. Cut the spindles off the axle and need to weld them to the trailer frame near the rear.

 I need to scrounge some wheels for the trailer as the lug bolts were galded and someone drove it a ways with loose nuts and wollered out the holes in the wheels ( I might just use washers though since the trailer will never see the road). Probably need to repack the bearings also as both caps were missing but I believe it will serve the purpose.

I have about 3 hours in this and probably another 5 or 6 to go. I have no money in it other than the gas picking the trailer up and cutoff blades for the grinder and welding wire.
 I figure on logs 16' and shorter I can hoist the whole log up, place some 3" tubing I cut
( off another trailer) across the frame and drop pins in to hold the tubing in place, and lower the log thus having the entire log supported and off the ground, = clean log.
I guess what I'm saying is, If your like me with not much money, creativity is your friend. You can make your life and your atv's job much easier with a good days work. Skidding unsupported logs is hard on any vehicle, even smaller tractors.
Just my $.02
Morgan

[logwalker]

Chains would be hard on the drivetrain in a tight turn. I would only chain the rear axle. On my Kawisaki it is a solid 1-piece and should be strong enough. Joe

[Woodhog]

Try a 4WD used farm tractor with a winch .  You only have 30 acres and it might be easier to get rid of when you finish up the piece... If it is a long distance to the landing you could also get a forestry trailer with a loader to haul it out with.

[solodan]

An arch works great with an ATV. especially on hills. I have a  Future Forestry Fetching Arch that I pull behind my Rhino. If the hill is too steep for the machine to pull and keep traction, I take the tongue off and slide on the ring. Then you stand up the arch over the log with the tongs biting the log and hook the ring with a chain or rope and drive to the top of the hill. Now you have to have alot of rope if it is a big hill, but once on the flat ground, you should be able to pull anything up that hill that fits in the arch.I usually only use this set if I need to get 1 or 2  logs, cause I have other equipment for moving wood . However I have skidded 100 16' logs in the 12" to 24" range in one day with a helper, and yes up hill, we only have hills here. Absolutly no flat ground.

 With the small diameter of your logs and cut to length of 8 1/2' ,an ATV with an Arch should be able to move everything you have. If you have a few larger logs you can always do some rigging. The other advantage is the speed of an ATV. I have gone and fetched logs that were almost a mile away in minutes, where as big equipment moves much slower.

[Good Feller]

My conclusion:

I'm kicking myself in the rear for thinking an atv could be a logging machine. It might sound good in theory but once you get on site and start looking at the situations... it's like no way.  Maybe it'll work in your area I don't know ....     

The word ATV and logging should never be placed in the same sentence and the next time I hear someone say it I'm probably going to laugh. sorry

A good way to destroy a $6000 tool. 

Use your atv for hauling your chainsaws,water,oil,gas,etc.  Good for going from one part of the farm to the next.

An ATV has its place in the woods and is very versitle and usable.  Just keep the log chain off the hitch. 

 



 



   



   

[Jeff]

Goodfeller, everybody has an opinion but most of the time they come from some sort of base experience to make them worth anything at all. Without the real experience or at least some knowlege garnered from those that do have it, the empty  opinion is what becomes laughable.

[DR_Buck]

I'm kicking myself in the rear for thinking an atv could be a logging machine. It might sound good in theory but once you get on site and start looking at the situations... it's like no way.  Maybe it'll work in your area I don't know ....     

The word ATV and logging should never be placed in the same sentence and the next time I hear someone say it I'm probably going to laugh. sorry

A good way to destroy a $6000 tool. 

Use your atv for hauling your chainsaws,water,oil,gas,etc.  Good for going from one part of the farm to the next.

An ATV has its place in the woods and is very versitle and usable.  Just keep the log chain off the hitch. 

I've been pulling 12 - 24 " logs  up to 16 ft long with my Honda Rubicon and arch for the better part of 5 years now without a problem.  And, I still use the Honda almost everyday to check fences and cattle.  Must be some kind of operator error.   

[Ironwood]

Goodfeller, I am with Jeff on this one. Yeah you can't make a living logging w/ a ATV, but boy you sure can get some serious work done on slight terrain w/ arches and a good head for safety. This is especially true if you can be selective in your road placements and the like. A few years ago I borrowed Frickman's JD440 for a month or so and "prepared" my woods for eventual small scale thinning and logging, mostly "dozed" off the undesirable scruffy growth and briars, uprooted nasty smallish trees and pushed them into my pasture to burn. Know I have lots of narrowish trails on a slight down slope ready to skid out sawlogs and get access to cut out firewood. Believe me you CAN do it.

 I have scrunged some LARGE tire chains from the scrap yard from an old township dumptruck and cut them down to fit my Gator. The advantage is they are big enough links to project above the lugs of my Runflat Goodyear Mudlites. I run them front and rear. REALLY dig, only thing better may be the new type that run around the circumference of the tire w/ welded half links (mine cost a good bit less )







 
Ironwood


 

[solodan]

My conclusion:

I'm kicking myself in the rear for thinking an atv could be a logging machine. It might sound good in theory but once you get on site and start looking at the situations... it's like no way.  Maybe it'll work in your area I don't know ....     

You could just spend a bunch of dough on a new skidder, or wait, make it a helicopter.

[Mooseherder]

My conclusion:

I'm kicking myself in the rear for thinking an atv could be a logging machine. It might sound good in theory but once you get on site and start looking at the situations... it's like no way.  Maybe it'll work in your area I don't know ....     

You could just spend a bunch of dough on a new skidder, or wait, make it a helicopter.

I say buy a Mule and let it do the Kickin'. 

[woodbowl]

I pull logs every day with a honda 500 foreman some 30ft. long. Mostly 10 to 20 ft. Uphill & downhill.

ATV's are doing a lot of other things as well. Here is a backhoe mounted to the front of an ATV.  http://www.atvs-backhoes.com/atvs_backhoes.html   Here is the smallest loader/trailer I've seen, pulled by an ATV.  http://www.kranman.com/

[cheyenne]

I also run it with a bosski ATV wagon with brakes & power dump. You would be amazed at the loads i pull from the woods. I believe the wheeler & wagon Are indispencable & the cheapest equipment there is to run. You can check it out at(atv wagon.com)....Cheyenne

[Bob_T]

I made one of these.

http://www.montanajacks.com/html/themes/atv_wood_cutting.htm

It was cheap and works fine for moving all kinds of things, not just logs.  I bought the plate steel from a salvage yard and put the curve in it by driving over it with my track loader.  I used a piece of alloy steel they had not mild steel so it will hold the curve and it has held up well under a lot of abuse. 

[Good Feller]

I've owned a 400cc 4 wheeler for the past 10 years.  Believe it or not,,, in 10 years time, I actually came to learn it's limitations, making my observation a little more than "empty".  It can pull a ton on level ground for sure.  I fully believe you can pull a decent sized log out of the woods if you are on somewhat level ground with an arch.  The confusion here is that the terrain in your area is different than mine (obviously).  You guys come to Iowa and pull logs out of our steep ditches with your atv's/arches....  We'll see if you can do that with your honda 5 years straight.  I don't care how good of an operator you are.....

If the terrain in your area makes atv logging practical,,, then by all means, do it. 

[Jeff]

Oops, my mistake. Most of us dont live in states where we log ditches. We just have rugged terrain in our woodlands and have actually done what we talk about.

[Ironwood]

Goodfeller,

  Trust me we have some SERIOUS terrain here in the ridges of western Pa. I have used aluminum lineman pullies strung to trees at 6-8' off the ground to retrieve fairly good sized logs up out of ravines if they have value, like this burled cherry one in the photo.



There is "no math" to support any larger equipment being mobilized unless it is already there. We have a pretty good system to mobilize high value individual logs from remote locations



.

 I am sure Iowa has some topography that we don't know about, even here out my back door near the town of Greensburg Pa. there are 400-500' valleys and slopes WAY too steep for skidders and sometimes even dozers. My nieghbor just cut some roads around his property at the property lines and the dozer operator had a brand new JD XLT (extra long track) and it was barely able to get purchase. Move closer to the ridges to the east and forget it.
 
 Like you said, depends on the location.

 Ironwood

[Mooseherder]

I've got a 500 Suzuki Vinson that I would like to try skidding smaller logs with.  I'm getting ready to do TSI on 30 acres of timber.  I'll be cutting a lot of white ash. 

 I would like to hear some thoughts about atv logging and what kind of skidding set up works best. 

 You can't compare a 400 to a 500.  The 500's are a much larger machine.
Your machine in 4 wheel low will go anywhere and not get run over by a log.  If you're running fast with a logging arch that'll be part of a natural selection process.

You asked for some thoughts and then ridiculed them when people were trying to help you.   

Your machine would be perfect for a logging arch and the most economical way to go with minimal investment.   I've pulled some very large logs with no logging arch no problem with mine.  I'll be investing in an arch when needed. 

[Reddog]

A quick forum search for atv logging will return all sorts of stuff.

A good piece of advice. 
Search first then ask.

[Good Feller]

I asked for opinions and advice.  I was curious and considering using my ATV for pulling small logs.  I took the opinions,advice/information, and personal experience and came up with MY own opinion.  I like Reddog's opinion too.  Next time, I'll search first and post only as a last resort. 

[Corley5]

Here's my advice.  If you are indeed serious about this endeavor here's what you need to do.  Get yourself an older small skidder or a small dozer equipped with a winch or a 50hp MFWD tractor with a front loader and a 3pt skidding winch.  Any of those can be easily transported with the 1ton 4wd and 20,000 gvwr gooseneck trailer that you're also going to buy.  Your best bet would actually be a Blue Ox trailer so you could also load and haul your own logs.

[solodan]

I've got a 500 Suzuki Vinson that I would like to try skidding smaller logs with.  I'm getting ready to do TSI on 30 acres of timber...

I'll be cutting tie logs 8 1/2' long and 13"-15" in diameter...

The word ATV and logging should never be placed in the same sentence and the next time I hear someone say it I'm probably going to laugh. sorry ...

You guys come to Iowa and pull logs out of our steep ditches with your atv's/arches.... 

I asked for opinions and advice...

Are you serious? Lots of experience here and you seem to be discrediting everyone who has actually done it. Hate to break it to you, but if your terrain is so steep, than a tractor or skidder won't help, but than again, given the size of your logs you might be better off using a bicycle. I agree with Reid, you may have some topography in Iowa we are unaware of, but coming from the west I simply can not believe that my topography is more gentle than what you describe. I have used an ATV with and without an arch, trucks, cables, manpower, high lines, heavy equipment, and many other methods that would make the Egyptians proud. All right here in good ole Tuolumne County CA. elevation less than 500ft to 13,114ft .  How's that for steep.

[Kevin]

I wish someone had told me it wouldn't work before I did it. 
It can be done after all!

[Woodhog]

Here is the smallest loader/trailer I've seen, pulled by an ATV.  http://www.kranman.com/

Thanks for the above link, nice looking ATV woods gear...

If your interested watch that video on the site called flexodrive, where he runs that little machine thru the mud with the load on the trailer.. He stood up and started some kind of engine that was mounted on the ATV I think?

Quite impressive if it will stand the strain over time...

[Ironwood]

Must be starting a hydraulic power pack to feed pressure to the wheels to drive them.
 
 Ironwood

[WildDog]

Thanks for the above link, nice looking ATV woods gear...

If your interested watch that video on the site called flexodrive, where he runs that little machine thru the mud with the load on the trailer.. He stood up and started some kind of engine that was mounted on the ATV I think?

"Dito" That trailer/log grab is brilliant, the drive cog that drops down between the trailer wheels to effectively engage 4WD is really something, even my wife looking on commented, I purposlly bought a heavy framed manual 400 yamaha Big Bear to tow with but after watching that video I realise I have'nt used it to capacity, rather relying on the 90hp JD......Good Feller if you hav'nt yet seen it, it might pay to have a look, either way good luck with your choice. 

[Deadwood]

I think I have logged with everything except helicopters and high lines, and that includes ATV logging. I had a 6x6 Polaris Big Boss and it worked that's for sure. I used a slightly different approach then many of you in that I used a scoot on frozen ground doing 4 foot pulp wood and hauled maybe ¼ of a cord.

What I really liked was how the woods had nothing more then pathways through the woods when I was done. 4 foot wide trails and little else so it really looked nice. Another good thing was the ratio of money spent on fuel in proportion to the mamount of wood hauled out. I think ATV logging had to be the cheapest logging operation I ever did.

I did get a sense though that what I was doing was indeed hard on the machine. Ultimately I got my load out (11 cord) and a year later got a tractor so I never returned again to ATV logging. I am not saying I would not do it again, but for me the tractor was made for it and I have it so why not use it. Those on a budget...go for it. It does work.

[chainspinrunner]

I see you have had all the information you need on this topic. One thing that was missed or maybe i had just missed it is filling those tires! I'm not sure as to whether or not one can fill calcium in a four wheeler tire. This would help with your weight issues and make that Vinson a wood pulling machine! Add some balance maybe.
       

       Just another tid bit of info for ya!
                                                   

[Jeff]

Would filling your tires defeat the low impact qualities of using the ATV?

[Ed]

I wonder if it would add enough weight to do any good, an atv tire isn't that big....

Ed

[Jeff]

And I was thinking the low air pressure is what gives you the ability to tread lightly so to speak

[chevytaHOE5674]

I know I'm a newbie here, but i have skidded logs using an arch, and an arctic cat 500 atv in Michigans western upper peninsula. Whatever terrain Iowa has, its not like around here we have steep muddy, rocky slopes. There has only been a few large hard maple logs I've been unable to skid up hills. Then i pull the winch cable out the front and pull myself up the hill and continue on. I don't have pictures of skidding logs, but i have pictures of the hills I've hauled logs on.


NOTE FROM ADMIN: Apologies, but photos must be in your Forestry Forum Gallery. See the help link on how to post photos.

And did i mention we have snow just about 6-7 months of the year.


 

[John Mc]

And I was thinking the low air pressure is what gives you the ability to tread lightly so to speak

With or without filled tires, the ATV is going to have less impact than the log it's dragging, or the wheels of the loaded arch, if he's using one.