Found another tree species on my property #2 (SOLVED: blackgum)

[Lanier_Lurker]

I know what I hope this is, but I ain't sayin' yet.

It has been right under my nose all this time.  It is not a big tree - between 2 and 3 inch caliper.  Not hardly 20 feet from my deck.

Unfortunately, after my long weekend out of town (and getting my butternuts from Dodgy), by the time I got back home we had done had some high winds that nearly defoliated the DanG thing.  Thank goodness there were still a few leaves left on it by the time I got to it with the camera.

The pictures ain't real good, but hopefully good enough.

Anybody know what it is?

[WDH]

Your pictures are funky.  They don't load right on my computer, so I think that I am seeing what you intended in the pics, but I cannot be sure.

My initial thought is blackgum.  The leaf tips are sure acuminate . 

It could also be one of DanG's weeping hackamatacks .

[Tom]

It's a very creative way of making big pictures, if everybody had the same sized screen.  Unfortunately, they don't and some folks see each picture displayed by itself, or out of sink with the other and it's difficult to determine what they are.  Kinda like looking at a picture puzzle that has been dumped onto the table and try to determine what it's picture is.

Bigger isn't always better.

Lanier Lurker, I know that you want big pictures, but making a small one that is sharp is a lot better than a big picture that you have to turn your head to see each side.  I feel like I'm looking at the screen of a drive-in movie from 20 feet.

[Lanier_Lurker]

I will fix it.

Gimme a few minutes.

[DanG]

 

It could also be one of DanG's weeping hackamatacks .

Well here's a place where I can really flex my dendrology muscles!  I can unequivocably state, without reservation or equilibrium that that ain't no weeping hackmatack!

[Lanier_Lurker]

Ok, that should be better.

Sorry about that.  I got a little carried away.

[Tom]

It looks a bit like shagbark hickory to me.  The cold weather might have made the other leaflets fall off.
Nope, on second thought, the edges are smooth.  Not a hickory.

How 'bout giving Persimmon a try?

[Lanier_Lurker]

My hope is that WDH is on target with his initial assessment.

[Lanier_Lurker]

It looks a bit like shagbark hickory to me.  The cold weather might have made the other leaflets fall off.
Nope, on second thought, the edges are smooth.  Not a hickory.

How 'bout giving Persimmon a try?

Now that you mention it, it does kinda look like persimmon.  But I am pretty sure it is not.

The fall color is pretty gaudy, but not as loud as what I have seen on other specimens of the species I think (or hope) this is.

[SwampDonkey]

Seems to favor blackgum over persimmon, as the leaf shape tends to be fatter at the middle and not as rounded at the base, narrowing up as in those pictures (cuneate).

[Lanier_Lurker]

My initial thought is blackgum.  The leaf tips are sure acuminate . 

It could also be one of DanG's weeping hackamatacks .

The leaf color is what got my attention.  At first I thought it was just another sourwood, but I quickly realized it was not when I got close to it.

If the previous pictures are not enough to confirm it to be blackgum then I will post more.

[Dodgy Loner]

No need for more pictures, it's a blackgum .

[WDH]

I can unequivocably state, without reservation or equilibrium that that ain't no weeping hackmatack!

Given that you are our esteemed expert on the hackmatacks, I respectfully accept your assessment.  Plus, I don't see any weeping at all .

As to blackgum, the short-shoots give it away.

[Tom]

What are  "short-shoots"?

[WDH]

You can see one under the large leaf near the bottom of the first pic.  Underneath the leaf is a short shoot profiled under the leaf.  Here is how the Va Tech side describes it:

Twig: Moderately stout, red-brown to gray, diaphragmed pith; 1 to 2 inch curved spur shoots are often present; buds ovate, pointed, green and light brown, but darkening to brown in the winter.

A short shoot is a twig that remains stunted, growing only a fraction of an inch each year.  At the end of short shoots, the leaves tend to arrange themselves in a whorl.

[SwampDonkey]

We have short shoots on yellow birch to, as well as tamarack.   

[Dodgy Loner]

So, you're saying it might be one of those unhappy hackmatacks after all

[SwampDonkey]

I gotta go to the shop and salvage some more butternut from the burn pile. I had some stain on it, but I planed some down and the stain is only superficial. It was a little late sitting in the log pile. Wasn't my fault, it was sitting in the sawyers yard. By the looks of some of it, I think he was just learning to saw, with all the waves and dips, thick and thin. Well, anyway I told that story before, no need to dwell on it. Just cutting the checks and knotty stuff out and edging it, piling, stickering and stacking. Just like finding gold.

[SamB]

Not so quick to put this one in the drawer. Seems there,s a consenous among the boys from the deep south. The boys a little farther north want to know, are you saying, this is a Black Tupelo [nyssa sylvatica] or a Swamp Tupelo [sylvatica var. biflora] or something else? Just don't want to get this answer wrong on the test. I know Blackgum.......

[SwampDonkey]

black tupelo

[Dodgy Loner]

Just a plain old Nyssa sylvatica - the biflora variety doesn't find its way north of the coastal plain very often, and it has narrow, glossier, and thicker leaves than Lanier Lurker's specimen.

[LeeB]

Any pics of the trunk to help my education along. I'm pretty sure I have some of them here as well.

[Lanier_Lurker]

Any pics of the trunk to help my education along. I'm pretty sure I have some of them here as well.

This tree is only a little over 3 inches in diameter.  This bark probably does not look exactly like it would on a mature tree.


   

[LeeB]

Hmm. well maybe not. I'll try to get some pics of what I have. The leaves are about the same but not the bark.

[OneWithWood]

In my twisted minds eye the bark looks like black oak only different 

[WDH]

A large blackgum has bark that looks a lot like sweetgum, only a tad scalier to my eye.  It can also turn knobby when it gets big, especially on a dry site.

[Dodgy Loner]

I agree that it's similar to sweetgum, except it breaks up into blocks that are a little more squarish than the long, rectangular blocks of sweetgum bark.

[WDH]

Yes.  When it gets knobby, the knobs are almost perfect squares.

[SamB]

A large blackgum has bark that looks a lot like sweetgum, only a tad scalier to my eye.  It can also turn knobby when it gets big, especially on a dry site.

I agree that it's similar to sweetgum, except it breaks up into blocks that are a little more squarish than the long, rectangular blocks of sweetgum bark.

Look anything like this?

[WDH]

There is the knobbiness .

[Dodgy Loner]

That's the culprit

[SwampDonkey]

What a bunch of knobs.