2wd backhoe, 4in1 bucket, mud...

[LKasdorf]

I just bought not one, but two Case 580B backhoes. Whichever I don't keep, my brother will buy.

One has a simple bucket and hoe, and the other has the 4in1 bucket, extendahoe, new rear tires, and rebuilt engine.

Both machines are in great condition- they have been frame-up restored and painted. They hav ebeen totally gone over, having pins and bushings replaces as needed, ram packing, etc. The simpler hoe is newer and has about half the hours of the 4in1 machine.

The seller really thinks I should keep the simpler machine, primarily because of its lighter weight, and because it is less complicated, I'll be able to handle it better. (He doesn't understand why a guy that writes software all day wants a backhoe....). He kept saying "so, you have never operated one of these??". I'm not worried about the extra complexity.

He and another fellow gave me a couple days of lessons, and I've gotten the hang of it pretty well already and pulled some stumps and done some minor grading. Except getting stuck in the mud, it went well. I was able to lever myself out with the front bucket. I also have done the bit where you lift the rear with the hoe, and pivot the hoe, to reposition the tractor. A bit scary at first, but I can do it now.

One area where I will be working a lot is a low lying forest that got flooded recently, so the ground is quite soft still. I've had trouble with both of these machines getting stuck in the mud. This will dry out over the summer, I think! However, we do have muddy conditions a fair amount and he thinks I'll have less trouble with the lighter machine. I really see the value of 4wd now, but no way I could afford one of those.

But since I have a sawmill, and for other reasons, I really like that 4in1. The extra 6' on the hoe is handy too, as I can see myself doing digging in tight spaces, and doing things like lifting trusses for a building, etc.

So- should I go for the features or the lighter weight? I think the 4in1 will bre really great for moving small logs and general cleanup, but maybe some forks on a regular bucket will do the job just as well.

[Furby]

 I haven't used either one, so I can't help you there. However it does kinda sound like you have already made up your mind and want the 4 in 1.

[MrMoo]

LK,
We software guys can find lots of uses for a backhoe. Besides anything those hardware guys can do, we software guys can do  

If I were you I'd go for the machine with the 4 in 1. I have run across several times with my JD that having the extra reach with the boom would have been helpful but my machine does not have it.

Sounds like you are already having lots of fun and uses for the machine. Backhoes are DanG handy things to have around you can do all kinds of things with em.
Mike

[hills_logging]

if you get in much mud your gonna be stuck with either one so sell the conventional one, and have your tires loaded( with calcium & water) and get  a set of double loop chains. These will help a bunch. The 580 is a great machine, I broke in on one in 1984, and the same tractor is still going strong, it was 5 or 6 years old then, and had a terrible  maintinace program.
In the realy bad spots, take a bucket of your slab wood, and courdoroy it, that help a bunch too.

[Tom]

Yep,  we're nuts!  After all those years buried in the bowels of computer room I had to have equipment too.  My first hoe was a Ford 5505 and it weighed too much.  It was the equivalent of the modern 777.  I stayed stuck all the time.  When the engine finally blew up on the leakey old rust bucket I got a Ford 555A which I have now.  It is a much lighter machine and I can tell you that lightness counts.  Especially if you are going to be in wet ground and will be using it as a backhoe.   I can dig stumps and ditches and bury animals in places I could only dream of going on the 5505.  When it gets stuck, It is fairly easy to get out too.  If you ever get a backhoe stuck so bad that you have to go get help to get it out, then you are really in trouble.

I would like 4wd also but don't have it.  I would love an extend-a-hoe but mostly so that I don't have to move the tractor so often when ditching.  I would have to dig a hole as deep as it would go just to prove I could do it.

the fancy bucket would be nice and I understand they are the neatest thing since sliced bread when it comes to moving trash.   I don't have one and have sufficed very well over the years.  I have only just recently made a set of forks.

If there is much difference in weight, I would pick the lighter machine too. Is one stronger than the other?  How much weight can you pick up with the FEL and still walk around?

I would want strong hydraulics for moving and setting logs. Being able to reach a load of logs on a truck is important if you may be buying logs. I guess the extend-a-hoe would be handy for that.

Which is the most comfortable.  You can spend hours in that seat sometimes if you attack a long ditch.

With Diesel going up, which would be the most economical to run?   Check on the price difference of filters and other maintenance items.  How easy is it to maintain things like the rear-end, transmission etc.  My tractor has easily accessible inspection caps in the cab floor.  I've seen some tractors that require you to be a contortionist and use special tools to boot.

Things I've always wanted and never installed was a coffee cup holder and thermos holder because I sure like my coffee when working alone.  I always wanted a DC fan to blow air on my face in the still of a humid swamp too.

[Ed_K]

 Go for the 4in1, and the only time a backhoe is stuck is when it won't run, or the hydro pump is bad. With a little stick time you will be able to dig your self out going backwards, push it out with the bucket, and hoe pullin, or walk out sideways.
May you have many hrs of fun, and no problems. And stay away from intro 2400's, bad hydro pumps.
Ed K

[LKasdorf]

And stay away from intro 2400's, bad hydro pumps.
Ed K

What is an intro 2400?

I am awaiting a book I purchased on backhoe operation (the only one that amazon lists). That may give me some more guidelines.

So far, one of the biggest annoyances is switching the seat from front to rear facing. On this model, when you rotate the seat, you need to slide it back on its track in order to clear the steering wheel. Then when it spins around it has to slide back to avoid the knobs. Seems like a kludge.

The experienced guy that sold these would routinely reposition the rig while facing backwards by lifting the front bucket, and tweaking the shuttle. This seems really dangerous to me, i guess because my feet are nowhere near the brake! I guess that on level ground this is not so bad. I'm sure that with experience, this sort of thing will come naturally.

One really inappropriate reflex, when in hoe position, is to step on the pedals, thinking they are brakes!

I just went out tonight and had to play around with the new toys a little in the dark. Fun stuff!

[dail_h]

   Don't know that I'de put cloride in the tires,that stuff is corrosive,and will eventualy eat up the whole machine.I like regular antifreeze better,but to each his own.Get the 4n1 ,if you don't you'll always wish you had.Too much is better than not enough most of the time.

[Tom]

Funny thing about Backhoes, After awhile they become an extension of your body and you don't think about what you want to make them do they just do it.  It' s like having another appendage.

[LKasdorf]

  Don't know that I'de put cloride in the tires,that stuff is corrosive,and will eventualy eat up the whole machine..

I agree. In this Case  , more weight is not desirable. These bad boys weigh something like 8 or 9 tons already!

Now chains might be a good idea. I actually have a set of chains that I use on my Ford 650 tractor- maybe they would fit the Case as they are a sloppy fit on the Ford, and the Case tires are fatter.

How are you supposed to cinch up tractor chains anyway? I used some cargo tie-downs as an emergency measure during our big snowstorm this year, but I don't know what the real solution is.

[Tom]

I think the suggestion was to put 'Calcium and water" in the tires rather than chloride.

The weighted tires might help in front end loader work by giving more traction but would be a hinderance in backhoe work where the hydraulics are used to hold the tractor off of the ground.  I don't have anything in mine but air. A Ford 555A weighs over 15000 lbs. That's a pretty good bit for traction.

[Ed_K]

 Theres a new product on the market for loading tires thats not corosive, but I can't think of the name of it. You don't really need extra weight for frontend loader work, just extend the hoe out a little. As for intro 2400, Its an International 2400 industrial hoe.
Some times when we needed extra weight for moving something heavy with the frontend loader, we'd grab a stump with the hoe and curl it up for weight.
Ed

[hills_logging]

anti freeze would work except its going to take 60 ar 70 gallons per tire....you do the cash math!   If you put in new tubes when you have it done, it will last for 10 or 15 years before the valves rot out and you'll likley jab a stick through a tire before then!!! the weight  also helps the bounce that they tend to do.Our tractors have wheel weights along with the tires being loaded!! You'll also like it if you carry haevy loads in the bucket!!!

[LKasdorf]

I have only just recently made a set of forks.

I'd love to hear/see how you made your forks. I have some ideas, and a ready supply of scrap steel from the local steel fabricator's recycle bin. And I just LOVE welding stuff together!

I'd like to work out a way to attach forks without modifying the bucket, although I could weld an attachment bracket to the top if required.

I saw a commercial fork system that you slip over the bottom of the loader bucket and clamp down with big screws. I could make something like that.

Regarding the 2 machines, the tractors are identical and have the same power. Its just that one has the heavier loader and hoe. I think that is the one I'm gonna go with. I don't really notice much if any difference in the handling of the machines. The hoe can still pick up the rear end of the heavier tractor with ease, so no problem there.

The idea of forks on the hoe bucket is interesting as well. Especially if you think about making it so the forks stick out of the backside of the loader. Some sort of clip-on affair here would be good.

[dail_h]

   LK,
  If you get the 4n1 you could put a clamp on your forks,even handier-use quick disconnects,no modifing the bucket