Author Topic: I have an unknown tree for identification (Read 2877 times)

Robert Long · « **on:** September 27, 2008, 03:32:44 pm »

I need help to identify this tree!

It stands about 40 feet tall and takes up a large area of the yard. It is very late to leaf out in the spring and it's seeds/flowers come out before the leaves in the spring.

Please help to identify!

Thanks for input!

Robert

Robert Long · « **Reply #1 on:** September 27, 2008, 03:36:27 pm »

Sorry, I copied the same pic $:-\$

I will add other pics but I'm being called to supper! Got to go!

Robert

Robert Long · « **Reply #2 on:** September 27, 2008, 08:01:43 pm »

let me try to post another pic

Sorry for the bad post! I will get more pictures as needed

Robert

tyb525 · « **Reply #3 on:** September 27, 2008, 08:05:17 pm »

Looks like it might be box elder, it looks like there are slight lobes on some of the leafs. Maybe a variety with little to no lobe?

Edit: after more searching, it could be: birch, some kind of poplar, beech, or something else.

If you could get a picture of the bark, that would help alot.

Robert Long · « **Reply #4 on:** September 27, 2008, 08:19:47 pm »

tyb525

That's my problem.....I have box elder or Manitoba maple at the back of the property and they do not look the same as this one, also they produce winged seeds, this one does not. also, they are infested with the box elder bugs (those red and black ugly bugs) and this one has no sign of them, yet? $:-\$

The leaves appear to be in clusters like a cluster of grapes

Robert

tyb525 · « **Reply #5 on:** September 27, 2008, 08:26:21 pm »

What do the seeds and flowers look like?

isawlogs · « **Reply #6 on:** September 27, 2008, 08:55:34 pm »

Da Swamdonkey will be here soon and will tell ya what ya got there .... He is purdy good at those game s, thats if Danny dont get here before him .

Oh!!!! I have no clue to what you got there . A pic of the bark and of the tree would be a good clue for me.

tyb525 · « **Reply #7 on:** September 27, 2008, 08:57:04 pm »

I figured a pro would come along eventually

Robert Long · « **Reply #8 on:** September 27, 2008, 09:38:08 pm »

Here is the tree and bark, I should note it always has sap leaking from the crotch.

As to the seeds, they come before the leaves in the spring and are little bud like green clusters.

Hope this helps!

Robert

Gary_C · « **Reply #9 on:** September 27, 2008, 09:53:04 pm »

Pictures need to be bigger, but a guess would be Basswood.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #10 on:** September 28, 2008, 06:18:11 am »

Looks like a non-native birch by those leaves. Too glossy for yellow or white birch, too big for gray birch. Too big for blue-beech. Not an elm or hackberry because the leaf base is symmetrical in the pics. Does the tree produce catkins (long slender fruit or oblong cone-shaped fruit on branch tips)? Basswood doesn't flower until mid summer. Birch leaves tend to have a big tooth every once in awhile on the leaf margin that looks kinda like the beginnings of a lobe.

Riles · « **Reply #11 on:** September 28, 2008, 06:33:20 am »

The dangers of using ID keys; they get you so close...

http://www.cnr.vt.edu/dendro/dendrology/syllabus/key/alternatesimplenolobesserratecordate.cfm?zone=3

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #12 on:** September 28, 2008, 07:27:23 am »

I'd rule all those out Riles. It ain't native.

'Bud-like green clusters' tells me it's a birch catkin. Female ones are erect.

Kinda like the forth thumbnail in this link (female catkin). Male ones hang down, 1-4 in a cluster, maybe more for non-native. On yellow birch female are usually solitary, but may be twinned occasionally. Non-native might be clustered, not familiar with the multitude of birch species.

http://www.northernontarioflora.ca/description.cfm?speciesid=1004133

Robert Long · « **Reply #13 on:** September 28, 2008, 07:34:24 am »

Riles

Great thread...I looked at all the examples listed and I ruled out all of them except the sample leaf picture looks a lot like the tree I have?

Robert

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #14 on:** September 28, 2008, 07:49:54 am »

Yes, possibly a populus sp. but not eastern cottonwood. They have a long slender fruit (ament) with oval shaped pods. Flowers look like pussy willow with gray hairs. Possibly a hybrid poplar. Might fit your 'green clusters' description a bit closer. Do you get 'cotton' floating on the wind in the early summer?

isawlogs · « **Reply #15 on:** September 28, 2008, 08:58:46 am »

I will be glad when I get highspeed here to be able to open and enjoie all the links

Gary_C · « **Reply #16 on:** September 28, 2008, 09:19:18 am »

My first impression was popular, aspen, or cottonwood until I saw the form of that tree. Just does not appear like any of those I have seen.

Robert Long · « **Reply #17 on:** September 28, 2008, 10:14:57 am »

I know cottonwood well and yes we have a lot of fuzz

, but the bark and the look of it is not cottonwood.....the leaves are too elongated to be cottonwood or poplar.....I believe

Robert

Riles · « **Reply #18 on:** September 28, 2008, 10:52:19 am »

Quote

Great thread...I looked at all the examples listed and I ruled out all of them except the sample leaf picture looks a lot like the tree I have?

Yeah, that's what I meant by getting close. No key is perfect, especially when you get species planted out of range.

I thought the same thing, that the sample picture looked the closest, although one is more finely serrated than the other. If you click on the sample picture in the link, you get the description for Italian alder.

By the way, Italian alder, Alnus cordata is present only in California, according the the USDA plants database. Explains why it wasn't one of the key search results.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #19 on:** September 28, 2008, 11:19:00 am »

Sounds like a hybrid poplar to me. Is there a hybrid with birch-like leaves? It sure isn't native. As Gary said, the form isn't aspeny. Looks more like a birch or elm form. Branch tips look too stout for birch, but would favour aspen/poplar. I'm sticking with populus.

WDH · « **Reply #20 on:** September 28, 2008, 10:56:24 pm »

My first thought is Morus alba. White mulberry. Brought over from China for the silk trade.

Dodgy Loner · « **Reply #21 on:** September 29, 2008, 08:33:59 am »

Yep, it's a white mulberry.

WDH · « **Reply #22 on:** September 29, 2008, 08:53:32 am »

The way to differentiate the native red from the introduced white is:

Red mulberry will have a scabrous (sand-papery) upper surface. Rough on the tongue if you are a leaf licker.

White mulberry will be as smooth as a baby's bottom.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #23 on:** September 29, 2008, 10:02:07 am »

Well there ya go. A mulberry with birch leaves and no mittens.

WDH · « **Reply #24 on:** September 30, 2008, 06:20:19 am »

Sometimes it is hard to stuff nature in the pigeon hole. Lanier Lurker and I were talking last weekend about hickory. Pignut has 5 leaflets until you find one with 7

Persimmon usually does not have a diaphramed pith until you cut a twig open to show someone the difference from blackgum and find the little diaphrammed pith grinning back up at you

.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #25 on:** September 30, 2008, 01:31:21 pm »

Yes, there are some that Peterson notes in his field guide that often have a diaphragm pith, but sometimes won't.

Of note are pawpaw A. triloba and sweet-spires Itea virginica and yes persimmon.

Robert Long · « **Reply #26 on:** October 05, 2008, 08:57:59 pm »

WDH

Now I think we are getting somewhere, We have a red native mulberry in the back yard, I will compare the two of them tomorrow, but here is my concern.......There are no berries on this one, yet there are green flower buds in spring.

Robert $:-\$

tyb525 · « **Reply #27 on:** October 05, 2008, 09:27:42 pm »

Maybe we have a never-before-seen natural hybrid?

WDH · « **Reply #28 on:** October 05, 2008, 10:06:57 pm »

Mulberry has male and female plants. It there are no berries, then it is a boy

.

Robert Long · « **Reply #29 on:** October 06, 2008, 09:24:01 pm »

Thanks folks!!

I took a good look at the two trees (red and white mulberry) and the stem, leaves and characteristics of both are similar therefore I can only conclude it's a white mulberry

Thanks for the help!

Robert

Ranger_School09 · « **Reply #30 on:** November 17, 2008, 12:32:21 pm »

I would agree, the form of the tree is what throws me off..my money would be on a populus species as well,the leaves look similar to that of balsam or black poplar (populus balsamifera), but the form isnt even close...do you have a picture of the bare twig/buds available?

letemgrow · « **Reply #31 on:** March 07, 2009, 05:41:30 pm »

Quote from: Robert Long on October 05, 2008, 08:57:59 pm

WDH

Now I think we are getting somewhere, We have a red native mulberry in the back yard, I will compare the two of them tomorrow, but here is my concern.......There are no berries on this one, yet there are green flower buds in spring.

Robert $:-\$

mulberry have male and female trees so I would bet that to be a male if there is never any fruit.

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Author Topic: I have an unknown tree for identification (Read 2877 times)