Standing dead trees

[Banjo picker]

ok pros....here is my first question....I have been checking my property, and have found quite a few dead trees, mainly oaks.....Some from lightening strikes...overcrowing....old age....and along one property line I figured out that my neighboring land owner had killed them with spray from a plane (overspray) in preparing to plant pines along a clear cut tract...Have a new owner now, and I don't trouble with him, as he did't do it anyway...Probably 10 trees poisioned.......I have a couple blown over by wind....Here is the deal ....what am I going to find when these trees are sawn....a few have died this summer, some last year....some have started to loose the bark they have been dead so long....In the past I would just cut a few for firewood.....What would i likely find value wise if I cut these dead standing trees....skidded them to the mill and sawed them...A good portion of these dead trees are probably 20 to 24 inches in diam.....any takers,,,,,Tim

[tyb525]

Well with red elm they are usually fine unless they are punky, in fact I just milled a couple about a month ago. They were probably dead while, as they're bark was already gone. With oak it might be different, but if they aren't punky yet they could still be ok. I'm no expert.

[beenthere]

Except for some possible decay, the quality of lumber you will saw from these trees will depend on the quality of the tree when it was alive. The location of limbs will translate to knots in the lumber.

So if they were high quality trees, you should get some very good lumber. Bark can loosen pretty quick, and may not be an indicator that the trees have been dead a long time.

When you take them down, and start cutting the tops into firewood, you will soon discover if there is solid heartwood in the sawlog portions of the downed trees. Let us know what you find out. 

I wouldn't shy away from them for anything you have described. 

[WDH]

The heartwood of the oaks will most likely be sound, but there will be some insect holes in the wood about the diameter of a grain of rice.  Adds character .

[Ron Scott]

Ditto! to the above. They should saw out some decent wood.

[Ron Wenrich]

In most cases, you'll lose the sapwood.  It will either be stained or punky.  Punk usually sets in if the bark has not fallen off. 

I've sawn stuff that's been dead for up to 5 years.  Right now, you won't have too much degrade.  The longer it stands, the worse it gets.  You'll have some cracks that will start to develop and go deeper into the wood.  At that point, it gets to be at the firewood stage.  When I run across those logs, I can't even make a RR tie, and most either goes into the chipper or into pallet lumber. 

At the current stage, you should be OK.

[Banjo picker]

Hello folks,  Thanks for the input....My mill won't be here for about another month, but when it gets here....I'll let you know how they turn out....That will probably be the first logs I saw with it....Tim

[RSteiner]

I was asked to saw an oak log that had been down for 7 years.  I must say that the wood seemed much harder than a fresh oak log.  I attributed this to moisture content.  The quality of the interiour wood was very good.  The only thing different was the color of the wood was a little darker than a fresh log would have produced.

Randy

[Banjo picker]

Thanks for the input...about how big was that deceased log?  Tim

[DanG]

Tim, the most important thing here is to get them down safely.  You don't want to be under a big oak if the branches start to drop off as the tree falls.  I don't know of any way to be absolutely sure without a bucket truck, but examine every one of them carefully and take whatever action you can to be safe.

[Banjo picker]

I know you are right .  I don't need any more experince in the dumb....cat....and don't know I anyone could be tough enough to take a lick like that....Tim

[VT_Forestry]

i recently went to a gypsy moth salvage where the trees had been dead on the stump for 2-3 years.  the logger said the only loss is quality was where the sapwood had rotted a little bit, maybe an inch total in dbh at the very worst.  as long as the trees are still standing, the quality should stay pretty decent.  good luck with them, let us know how they turn out! 

[tyb525]

On a similar subject, does anyone know what kind of MC a dead-standing tree, on fairly dry ground, would have? Doesn't have to be specific, just whether it would still have a lot of moisture in it or not.

[WDH]

I think that it will have a good bit of moisture in it still.

[ely]

On a similar subject, does anyone know what kind of MC a dead-standing tree, on fairly dry ground, would have? Doesn't have to be specific, just whether it would still have a lot of moisture in it or not.

i have an opinion on this subject, but i do not have any hard facts to back this idea up. i think that when i saw old standing dead timber like oak or other hardwood. where the sap wood is either gone or doady. the center of the tree is still very sound. i find that the lumber that i saw out of it does not move much at all, which leads me to believe that it has less actual wood moisture left in it. i guess what i am saying /asking is wood can have two types of moisture in it. green wood has moisture from the growing process, dead trees has moisture from the environment more so than the growing process,depending on how long it has been dead.

what do you professionals think is right?

[tyb525]

I've always thought along those lines too, ely. It seems like once it dies most of the water would "drain" or somehow leave, and what would be left is the water trapped in the cells. I picture it similar to air drying, but maybe to a lesser extent? I really don't know, but that is my guess. I'm sure some pros around here know.

[Banjo picker]

TYB that is what I have been told...by a man that cut post toppers (fennials)...He said I would have some really good workable wood there when it is sawyed...Tim

[routestep]

I would guess that your logs would have lots of wood boring insects. I cut up some trees that were on the ground for two years, bark coming off and visible insect holes. The sapwood was gone as noted by other posts. Lots of good wood in the trees that were sound to begin with. I'm trying to rid most of the boards and beams of powder post beetles. I don't see any other holes in the wood, just the tiny PPB and the resultant dust.

[Weekend_Sawyer]

 Last week I milled a red oak that was standing dead for over a year.
It is absolutley beautiful inside. No rot. I got 2 10' logs out of the tree
and have the lumber stacked and stickered. I am hopeing to get some nice stair treads out of them. By the way the bark had mostly fallen off so there wasnt much rot in the sapwood either.

Jon

[Banjo picker]

I have harvested several of the trees this post was started about.   I have been careful, as it is dangeroussssss.  The wood has run the gambit of what has been posted.  Some pretty good -- some not so good.  Cut ties out of most of them that were not too far gone.  Some is being used for firewood as we speak.  Several more to cut.    Tim