Logging arch build-finished & tested!

[Ed]

I finially decided to get building on my logging arch, so far just plugging away at it when I have a few extra minutes.....I got the tires mounted yesterday and clamped and squared the arch & tongue for welding. There's still plenty to be done, like reinforcing the tongue, getting the winch mounted and welding in some d-rings to carry the log after it's raised.
It's designed to carry a 36" max dia log.

Ed

 

[Maineloggerkid]

Really swift looking rig ya got there- we need some more pics as the build continues.

Now, the only question- When you gonna build mine?

[Onthesauk]

Nice, looks industrial strength!  How much HP on the tractor to pull that?

[Ed]

Really swift looking rig ya got there- we need some more pics as the build continues.

Now, the only question- When you gonna build mine?

Thanks! I'll keep updating the pic's as it progresses.
I'll put yours on my to do list! 

Nice, looks industrial strength!  How much HP on the tractor to pull that?

Tractor is a New Holland 2120, IIRC around 43 hp. It should pull anything that the arch will pick up with no problem. I'm waiting to see how our Deere 955 compact will pull it. Although the Deere isn't built for heavy work, it's a joy to use in the woods. It's small enough to get around without a cleared skidding trail.

Ed

[tyb525]

Looks real nice and heavy duty, I need one of those. 

[thecfarm]

Looks real nice.Hope you paint it blue.!!!!

[cheyenne]

Nice looking rig, Gonna have fenders & mud flaps....Cheyenne

[Ironwood]

I just got out of the woods with a 755 JD w/ a 5' brush hog and a FEL to push the trees over before wacking them (saplings and smallish stuff). That thing was unGodly stable, I never thought it would do so well offf angle. The tires are calcium filled which helps.

 One note on the arch, it looks plenty strong............BUT you might want to consider a pair "struts" bracing from the mid horizontal down to the back of the hub on each side. I have found that you can generate a TON of odd forces when working these unit in real life, especially w/ 43 horses.  The arch in the first picture is smallish, but it is all relative to how much HP and weight you are yanking.


 



 



 Ironwood

[RSteiner]

I just got out of the woods with a 755 JD w/ a 5' brush hog and a FEL to push the trees over before wacking them (saplings and smallish stuff). That thing was unGodly stable, I never thought it would do so well offf angle. The tires are calcium filled which helps.

 One note on the arch, it looks plenty strong............BUT you might want to consider a pair "struts" bracing from the mid horizontal down to the back of the hub on each side. I have found that you can generate a TON of odd forces when working these unit in real life, especially w/ 43 horses.  The arch in the first picture is smallish, but it is all relative to how much HP and weight you are yanking.


 Ironwood

The exact same thing crossed my mind.  I built an arch 25 years ago from plans I saw in the Mother Earth News with a few modificatiuons.  Without the struts I think things will twist apart quicker than you think. 

The one addition I made to mine was off of the rear I installed a bracket that is vertical to hold a hand crank two speed boat type winch.  The winch has 20 feet of 1/4 aircraft cable.  With the winch I can pull a log under the arch, if I can not back over it.   Once the log is in position I can lift one end of the log off the ground with the winch to place a sling chain under the log for transport.

Usually the sling point of the first chain is some where just pass center which allows to other end of the log to be lifted by just pulling up on the front sling chain.  I did weld brackets on top of the rear support and one on the tow pole near the front to grab the chain links of the sling chain making adjusting for different log diameters easy.

Your arch looks very well made.  The doesn't matter much as long as it is green or orange.

Randy

[Ed]

Ironwood, there will be strut bracing on it before it ever sees the woods, thats a promise!
 
I still don't have the tongue & arch welded together yet....trying to find a few minutes to recheck squareness, then weld.

Y'all know there just isn't enough hours in the day.....

Nice looking rig, Gonna have fenders & mud flaps....Cheyenne

I had thought about it.........I guess I'll wait & see how much debris it wants to throw at me!

Ed

[Ironwood]

If I could make one more suggestion, You cant tell in the pics, but I GREATLY perfer the heaviest channel mounting system for the front. this will enable you to alter your attachment point geometry up or down as needed, AND it is a great point for mounting a removeable wheel if winching away from the tractor, AND you can change from lunet to 2- 2 5/16 th ball depending on your preference OR tow vehical.  Smallish buckeye in the first pic, bIG walnt in the second








 See the wheel in the second pic? Northern does not carry the heaviest 5 position channel, have a local shop that carries Buyers brand products order you one.

 
Respectfully, Ironwood

[wannabeonetoo]

Ironwood...this may be a stretch , but you wouldn't happen to have a set of drawings for your rig would you ?? That is a nice looking unit ,some slick engineering there 
 Steve

[Ironwood]

Sorry, no drawings. It is basically a sized up version of the "Tractor arch" by Future Forestry (now Logrite). It is between the Hugo (discontinued) model and the Tractor arch.  The lights are reomoveable, and can be moved, and bungee corded to the rear of the log.

        Ironwood

[wannabeonetoo]

Thanks IW ,guess I'll have to get out my sketch pad and put the thinkin' cap on (ouch !!!! thats gonna hurt  ).
  Steve

[Ed]

Ironwood, I see what your saying about the hitch, very good points.

I've already got it all welded up.....for now I think I'll try it and see what happens. There were 2 reasons for doing it the way I did. I can hook my wood hauling trailer to the tractor, then pin the arch to the back of the trailer when I go to the woods. The trailer is pin type so if the arch is needed I don't have to put a ball on the tractor to use it. The pin hitch will also prevent the arch from being hooked to a truck and being towed down the highway.

Ed

 

[RSteiner]

Ironwood, I see what your saying about the hitch, very good points.

I've already got it all welded up.....for now I think I'll try it and see what happens. There were 2 reasons for doing it the way I did. I can hook my wood hauling trailer to the tractor, then pin the arch to the back of the trailer when I go to the woods. The trailer is pin type so if the arch is needed I don't have to put a ball on the tractor to use it. The pin hitch will also prevent the arch from being hooked to a truck and being towed down the highway.

Ed

 

That is a nice idea.   

The only concern I would have is a ball type of coupler allows the towed item
to rotate, twist and move in every direction to a degree.  Does the pin arrangement you have allow for similar movement, if not then something might get twisted.  I like the idea of no one else being able to easily drive away with something that does not belong to them.  I had that problem with a trailer once.

Randy

[Ed]

Randy, yes the holes in the arch are oversize to allow for movement. The pin type hitch is an agricultural "standard" for wagons and some tow behind implements. IIRC, it's illegal on a interstate highway. 

Ed


 

[Ed]

Well, I've managed to get a little bit more done on the arch. 

The struts (2 1/2 x 2 1/2 x 3/8 angle) are all welded in. The truss (3/8 x 3) for the tongue is in place and tack welded. Now it's time to work on getting the winch and pulleys mounted.

Ed

 

[beenthere]

Ed
Looking great.
What do you think the tongue weight will be like, empty?

I often wonder what it is like getting the arch positioned over a log in the woods, when it is not flat and the woods debris/rocks, etc. are lying about.

I visualize a lot of effort moving it into place. Maybe the arch is just backed into place?

[Ed]

I'll be leaving mine attached to the tractor!  It's bad enough to move on concrete, I don't want to try to manuver it by hand in the woods.
If I can't back it up to the log I can use the tractor & boompole to skid the log out to where it's accesable.

I'm guessing the current tongue wt is appx 80-100lbs.

Ed

[metalspinner]

How do you figure tongue weight?  Just put a bathroom scale under the tongue?

[trapper]

my stepson put a couple of angle guards in front of the wheels on mine to slide around trees when I cut a corner too short

[Ironwood]

Looks great, and heavy duty. Ironwood

[Ed]

How do you figure tongue weight?  Just put a bathroom scale under the tongue?

yup, that will work. On the arch, I'm just guessing for now.

Ed

[Ed]

I acutally found some time over the holiday's to get the arch finished up & tested.
There wasn't really much to do...mount the winch and pulleys, weld up the heel assembly and empty another can of spray paint on it. Maybe next summer I can sandblast it and give it a respectable paint job. 

All in all I'm really pleased with the outcome, I had reservations on using a HF winch, so far it's holding up (pun intended).
I used a couple of old steel v-belt pulleys to run the cable on, it actually goes through the main tube and over another pulley in the rear. With the front pulley and slinging the log, it gets me a 4:1 reduction on the lift. I was surprised how easy the log lifted.
I did get carried away wit the first log......just a little long  It was trying to lift the Ranger up off the ground.  All total I hauled 6 logs with it, other than the Ranger not being overly manuverable while backing up to the log, I'm happy with it!

Ed

 



 



 



 



 

[OneWithWood]

There is always cause for celebration when a plan comes together 

good job

[timber tramp]

Very nice work Ed. 

[wi woodcutter]

Looks very nice. Good job on the welding and fab work.

[Ironwood]

Nice.

Those Rangers can really haul. One of the estates I deal w/ has two for moviing sap out of the "sugar bush". I played with one just for fun one day. 

 Ironwood

[Ed]

Thanks guys!

Ed

[Darin]

Hey Ed

I need one of those. I have the sawmill and the atv, but my method of moving logs isn't working very good. Could you give me the sizes of the materials that you used, so I don't build something that ends up being to small for the task.

How is the arch working and would you do anything different?

Thanks
Darin

[Tim L]

nice job Ed and I have the same questions as Darin.

[isawlogs]

 With that much wood sticking out past the arch , I think tongue weight could be an issue ... lack of . There cant be much weight on the rear wheels . Hope you dont have many hills to negotiate .

[Ed]

Hey Ed

I need one of those. I have the sawmill and the atv, but my method of moving logs isn't working very good. Could you give me the sizes of the materials that you used, so I don't build something that ends up being to small for the task.

How is the arch working and would you do anything different?

Thanks
Darin

So far I haven't used the arch since it's initial outing. I've been cutting very close to my landing area and skidding out the logs with the tractor. With the snow & ice in the woods, skidding is faster. My firewood supply isn't what it should be, so there haven't been any sawlogs.

Much of the material for the arch was on hand or "scrounged".    The hubs are from the rear of an old full size GM fwd car. 5 lug, 115mm bolt circle, that converts to 4.5". I used old Mopar wheels (15x7) instead of fwd reverse offset rims. Tires are old LR78-15's, nice & wide for better flotation, replacment size will probably be a 31-10.5 15.
The arch itself is 2 1/2 x 6" rectangular tube, 3/16 wall. Maybe a little big, but I had it. I did buy the tube for the tongue, 3" square 1/4 wall. All the gussets are 1/4 minimum, If I had something a little thicker, I used it. The winch is from Harbor Freight, eventually It will be replaced with a bigger/better one, I had to start somewhere.

 With that much wood sticking out past the arch , I think tongue weight could be an issue ... lack of . There cant be much weight on the rear wheels . Hope you dont have many hills to negotiate .

That log was trying it's best to lift the Ranger. I only did that once, just a test.  Our ground is pretty flat, no hills to worry about.

As far as any changes, I'll probably add a second winch to the front for holding a log up into the heel bar, faster & easier than  binder. There will also be a way to secure and carry a cant hook for rolling the log a little to get the cable under it.

Ed

[shinnlinger]

Ed,

I love your arch and the fact you used a handwinch.  I have been holding off making one of my own because I thought a handwinch would be insufficient.  It sounds like you are thinking a winch in the front and one at the back is now the way to go.

Can you tell me more about how the winch line is run on yours?  It looks like it goes forward over a roller, but I cant follow it from there.

Thanks again for testing my ideas for me!

[Ed]

The winch line goes forward & around a small pulley, then feeds through the main tube and over another pulley at the back. When lifting a log, I run the line around the log then back to a clevis on the arch, basicially making a sling.
I tried to enlarge the back view so you can see it better.

Ed

 

[shinnlinger]

Ed,

THanks, that does help....How is that cable holding up wrapping around logs?  Could you use a short piece of chain on the end?

[Ed]

So far so good, but I can see the cable won't last long. The cable & hook was less than $10.00 at HF, so I'm going to get a spare and call it a "wear item". 

Ed

[metalspinner]

I run the line around the log then back to a clevis on the arch,

That puts the cable going around three different loops.  Doesn't that halve the weight twice?

[Ironwood]

The way he has the cable wrapped is how I do it, this runs the log tight to the arch and is IMHO the best way to do it. It keeps the log from swaying and enables you to carry a log of max diameter. Additionally, the inverted "Y" at the front of his makes ALOT of sense to"capture" the front as to not sway. Please note he also made it remavable via a hitch style receiver, another good design idea. You can see the removable wheel at the front of mine below and you cannot see the is the foldaway handle that swings parallel to the rising front tube, this enables some degree of hand jostling as it rolled around as needed.

 Metal spinner, in actuality the final loop give 2x pull, and the others appear to only be redirecting the cable , so no loss.

Ironwood



 

[Ironwood]

FYI all,

 Fulton sells (all catalogs, as they are a wholesaler) a two speed 3200 lb winch that is noce when lifting and winding in unloaded. That is what is o my large arch.

 Ironwood

[Tamiam]

Future Forestry and now Logrite has been using hand winches on their arches for over 10 years.  They work great.  As a matter of fact we used to use the Fulton 3200 lb winch. We found that Shelby made a 3200 lb hand winch with a bigger drum so the drum will put less strain on the cable.  And we found Shelby's rachet mechanism to be more robust.

Tammy

[Ironwood]

Tamiam,

 Is that a 2 speed? I talked to your predesessor awhile back, and he opted out of the two speed for durability issues (I understand), but the two speeds makes all the difference for quick spooling. What are the specs on the one you now offer (if two speed).

       Ironwood

[Lud]

On my homebuilt arch, I always chain the log up to keep the strain of travel off the winch cable.

 Brought a 16' x 22" cherry back home about 7 miles on the back roads from a friend's house. Hung my SMV on the end.   A little nervous as I drove past the county mounties but they were busy with a teenager in a convertible.

(They probably assumed an old guy with a tractor is less dangerous and knows what he's doin'!) 

[Ed]

Future Forestry and now Logrite has been using hand winches on their arches for over 10 years.  They work great.  As a matter of fact we used to use the Fulton 3200 lb winch. We found that Shelby made a 3200 lb hand winch with a bigger drum so the drum will put less strain on the cable.  And we found Shelby's rachet mechanism to be more robust.

Tammy

Thats good to know! The drum on the HF winch is very small, it makes it almost impossible to get the cable spooled correctly in level wraps.
As I've previously mentioned, I had to start somewhere on this project and I fully ecpect to make a few modifcations as time goes on.

Ironwood, 2x is correct on the mechanical advantage.

Ed

[Ironwood]

I too chain and cable my log once up tight to the arch. See the second pic on my post and you can see the two ton Red Devil comealong and chain and binder at the front. You can see the handle flipped down (greenish) at the front, it is 1" solid bar w/ a stainless spring pin to hold it in the two positions. The HD swivel wheel is removed in this picture, the only one heavy enough I cold find was a military surplus item. I tried many wheels and bearings, including custom weldments, and this VERY HD military unit was the only thing strong enough to handle the crazy loads, funky angles and general stress generated. 





          Ironwood

[Banjo picker]

What size is the cable on the winches?  I tried the one my son had built the other day.  It worked fine  (structually).  But the winch was waaay to hard to use, at least for my body.  And then when I had to stop and re hook.  (The front of the log had been a little too short to fit in the yoke he had built, so the log moved.)  I had to winch it up off the chains, and just as it cleared where I could unhook them to let it down.  The cable started breaking,  all but one strand.  I let it down and picked the log up later with the tractor.  If we don't change the winch we will have to upgrade the cable.  It had been out in the weather a few years on another piece of equipment before being put on the arch but think it might need to be a little bigger.  Tim

[Ironwood]

My cable (replaced by me) is 1/2" and WAY overkill for what the winch can lift. None of the hand winchs will be easy unless you pulley way down, then it will take a gagillion turns. If you can try and electric winch like Future Forestry used to put on there Hugo (discontinued model). Everytime I use mine, I swear to change it to a removable elctric winch (one of mine is on a Reese style reciever mount that I built and it can be used in various ways on various eqipment (see it on the bulk head in this pic) 



          Ironwood

[Banjo picker]

My cable (replaced by me) is 1/2" and WAY overkill for what the winch can lift. None of the hand winchs will be easy unless you pulley way down, then it will take a gagillion turns. If you can try and electric winch like Future Forestry used to put on there Hugo (discontinued model). Everytime I use mine, I swear to change it to a removable elctric winch (one of mine is on a Reese style reciever mount that I built and it can be used in various ways on various eqipment (see it on the bulk head in this pic) 

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

          Ironwood

It has the gagillion turns.  Starts out from the winch which is mounted on the sloping part that goes to the hitch up to the top runs to the rear, goes around a pully comes back to the front along the top, around another pulley then goes back to the rear around another pully then down to pick up the log.  That in itself is a little agrivating when you are free spooling the cable to hook it up.  No problem once the preasure is on.  How big of an electric winch would be needed to pick up a 1500 lb. log?  I was looking at some at a supply house yeaterday, and it don;t seem to be as straightforward as it should be.  Diffrent ratings for different amounts of cable on the same winch.  How big is the winch in your pic.  Tim

[Ironwood]

That  unit is a is a Warn 8000lb commercial oil gear bath. It is a brute. I got used from a caretaker on a local estate, it was on their old International p/u. It is one of those things you wonder what you used to do before I owned one, kind of like my HD pressure washer. I would reccommend a worm gear like this one as it is less likely to have the undesireable "spool reversing" under load as the planetary geared ones do on occasion. Ramsey sells a 9000 lb and 12000lb  worm drive also(I have those two here as well but never put them on a reciever yet). Try asking around your local Fire Dept, sometimes they have those pulled off there units, that is where my 9000'er came from.


 Ironwood

[ED B]

I agree with one of the other replys. A ball hitch gives better rotation permitting a safer transport. Northern supply has a nice small one with some nice safety features used with four wheelers. An additional feature they have is a sloped bar that lifts the log as you start pulling it. This also sets the log down as it starts pushing you. Great on hilly terrain.
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200325611_200325611
Look for their video!

[shinnlinger]

Thatt Northern thing is OK I guess, but  Ed's and Ironwood's are WAY cooler.  HOw can I be a member of this site with one of those Banana colored things knowing what Ed and Ironwood made?

[RSteiner]

On the arch I made 25 years ago I put a hand winch on the rear of the arch to pull and lift the log under the arch.  There are times when I would like to have a second winch in the front for the heavy ones.  I have found that if I place the log just pass the middle balance point under the rear of the arch I can lift the front by hand.

I always put a chain under the front and the rear to secure the log for travel rather than let it hang on the winch cable.

Randy

[neslrite]

We do use the Shelby 2 speed winch.

I sell the winch with a 25 ft 3/8" cable with slider.

The advantage our arch, Ironwood's arch and Ed's arch has is that the log is totally suspended, therefore backing up is now an option.  This is a tremendous advantage over the Northern skid mate.

Tam I Am

[Ed]

I made one more addition to the arch.  Turned out pretty well I think. 





The holder thingies are from Baileys. The Logrite fits in good & tight, it's not going to fall out.

 



I took a better pic of how the winch cable exits the back of the arch too.

 



Ed

[Banjo picker]

That is sharp Ed , I may make a few changes to mine before I put the new cable on, and incorprate a few of your ideas.  neat to have the cant hook on there.  We have two mill special logrites ourselves.  I am going to make a change similar to what you have on the Y that catches to front of the log.  As i have had a short one that dont want to come forward enough to sit in it.  Will make it adjustabe as you did with the pin and put another connecter a litte farther back , then the y could be moved to either position.  Also like the unclutered look of the cable running through the tubing.  Tim

[rdbrumfield]

I built one of these back in the early 80's for my 33hp yanmar.  Of course it was built much heavier but the same configuration.  I used hyd for dumping the first one.  this one works well behind my quad and is very useful around the farm.

I used a boat winch and it works quite well for dumping the trailer and picking up logs.  It has 2000 lb rated spindles although I would never load it that heavy.  Just the thought of taking a heavy load downhill with a quad gives me shivers. I see some of the loads and I know they are just for the pics, but in reality I think I would want a quickrelease trip if the load started to take over where the pulling unit was going to go.

[Jeff]

Ed, do you have a part number for those "holder things" from Baileys?

[beenthere]

Thanks Jeff. I wanted to ask get that info too.   

[Ironwood]

Ditto, Ironwood

[Jeff]

Good news. They are going to be available from LogRite. 

[Banjo picker]

Well tell Tam i am to send me a pair.  They done got my numbers.  Tim

[Ed]

Good news. They are going to be available from LogRite. 

 

Methinks you are all set now.

The maker of those clamps recommends a #10 bolt or screw to fasten it to whatever. That seemed a little small.....I used 1/4-20 flat head screws, no modifications required.

Ed

[Ironwood]

Has anyone tried to get an arch DOT approved? Just curious.

 Ironwood

[shinnlinger]

What if you just registered it as a homemade trailer for the biggest load you anticipate?  You could put magnetic lights on it, electric brakes and a triangle if you wanted.  flag the butt and call it good. 

Obviously this assumes you have a sturdy design, a secured load,  and good tires and all that but I doubt you would run into any trouble.  I doubt I would around here anyways.

[Ironwood]

Shin,

 Thanks, just wandering. I did note on the Future Forestry site before Kev and Tam got it to Logrite, that the Hugo was cited "not yet DOT approved" and was curious what it would take to make one "official". The DOT issues continue to plague us folks and I am just waiting to get pulled over and then to go through the whole "what the !@#$% is this your pulling" the State cop says deal.

      Ironwood

[shinnlinger]

I still feel that if you registered it you would go a long way toward avoiding hassles and how much is it register a trailer in PA???  Up here it is less than $20 (I think, none of my trailers are registered here come to think of it) If it has a tag I think you could point that out to the officer and that should do the trick.

My logic is if you have a log (Or anything else) that sticks past 3 ft hanging off your truck or trailer and if it is secured and flagged you are OK if you meet weight height requirements and I don't see why an arch changes any of that.  I would mount my lights on a 2x6 that I could screw on the butt end for turn signals. safer and keeps the lights out of the woods where they wont last very long.   You could even put electric brakes in the hub.

[lancek]

You should be able to make it legal but you would have to put electric brakes and a light bar as sudgested you would allso need to make sure that the tires were dot certified and capable of carrying the load that is where the cops will look frist in this situation the axles need to carry wieght of the load and trailer and should be plated for both allso the truck plates need to be heavy enough to handle the combined weight of the truck and trailer

[Brian_Rhoad]

To register it as a trailer it would a title and proof of axle capacities. Brakes if over 3000 lbs gvw and lights. If the log hangs out the back more than 6 feet you would neet an oversized load permit. Triangle or slow moving vehicle sign is illegal if traveling over 20 mph.

[Ironwood]

 



 Is that more than 6' 
 
 There is a light bar, I just needed longer wires than 18' 

   Ironwood

[Papa1stuff]

Maybe you should put another axle under there too!

[Ironwood]

Went right past town hall w/ that load as well, no sirens, no lights , so no problem  .

 
Ironwood

[sjfarkas]

In California you can register a home made trailer for $12.  DMV doesn't even inspect it.  They just want to know where you got the parts to build it and how much you paid for the parts.  They put a VIN sticker near the hitch.  They say it is up to Highway Patrol to deal with the legal. 

[Piston]

Just out of curiousity, what do you guys do for an axle arrangement?  Do you just get a hub and weld it to the steel, and bolt the tire right on? 
That is a well built looking log arch if I've ever seen one!  Nice job.

[Ironwood]

The one in my pics is "homemade" and the axle is welded on. I am contemplating use of a set of 17.5" rim/tires with a torsion stub set up. $2400 just in parts from Redneck. They use this set up on 12 ton trailers to avoid dual tandems. I think a set of tires/ axles good for 12,000 should do it .

 Ironwood

[Ed]

My arch uses rear hub assemblies from a front wheel drive GM car. I machined an adapter plate and welded it to a piece of 4x4 tubing, then welded the tube to the arch. The bolt pattern is 5x115mm, close enough to 4.5" that I used old Mopar rims.
Road use on mine is minimal, it's only pulled by the tractor or Ranger so I didn't worry about a load rating on the hub.

Ed