best around house shade tree

[Old_Hickory]

my house is in woods ive cutten trees back  mostly  populars and black oaks  I have some stray growing white oaks  and hickories.Which is best choise to leave for shade trees and windbreaks

[DanG]

My first consideration would be the condition of the trees, health-wise.  Second would be the location...which ones are in the places you want shade trees?  The third point would be for trees that are actually shading the house.  I prefer deciduous trees that are bare of leaves in the winter, there.  They shade the house in the summer, and let the sunlight in when you need it.

[Lanier_Lurker]

Of the 4 species you mention, the yellow poplar (assuming that is the poplar species you have) is probably your best bet for having shade any time soon.

You do not mention the sizes of the white oaks and hickories.  As I understand it, both of these species have a significantly slower growth rate than yellow poplar.

Do you intend to transplant some of the white oaks or hickories?

[Dodgy Loner]

I like poplars, but it's hard to beat a white oak for a shade tree, and I'm also partial to hickories.  Hickories will grow more slowly than white oak, and white oak will grow more slowly than poplar.  I would avoid the black oak, unless you have some with very nice form.  They tend to be shorter-lived than the other trees you mention. 

[Old_Hickory]

i have cut the black oak  and populars back about 30 feet from house,They were larger trees from 60 to around 90 feet tall.They Oaks branches were dieing,and I just dont like populars to easy to break in wind.I have left about a 50 foot tall white oak.
It has just been shaded and does'nt have much crown to it.I'm hope it will spread now. I have some smaller white oak and Hickories around 5 feet tall.But one need to go to give other room to grow.I fovor the Hickories for strength  but the White oaks
for shade.

[metalspinner]

Another consideration is the messiness of the tree in a lawn, patio or gutters.  The poplar isn't going to leave you quite the mess that the oaks and hickory would.  My patio has a very large oak right in the middle and every fall I have to sweep buckets of acorn litter.

[Old_Hickory]

am mostly wanting the sturdiest tree in wind and ice for the shade it gives

[WDH]

I vote for the oaks.  The hickory nuts can be a real housekeeping problem (don't ask me how I know this  ).  Oaks are proven shade trees.  Choose the best trees that have the best form/crown.

[SPIKER]

I would go for the oaks over the hickories if at all possible BUT both are messy!!!!   the OAKS will leave a lot of blooms on every thing in spring and acorns falling year round is seems are are more of a pain to walk on.  if you have a DECK under it they are hazard   I know from experience!  though shade is great from them.   I would look to a few of the maples if you can get them close but not over the home/house.  less mess & grows faster than the oaks. more shade too as they spread crown out better.   Silver or Red will grow the fastest but the hard sugar maple will be more hardy...  Must plant for form though no split trunks....

If you are looking to get the shade ASAP I suggest planting 3 or 4 red/silver maples closer to home, then 4 or 5 hard maples out farther and remove the silver/red maples as the hard maples grow up...   they do make for stuff in gutters but nothing like OAK or HICKORY

also don't bring rodents close to the home like the nut bareing trees...
Mark M

[Weekend_Sawyer]

 White oaks are beatuiful trees and deer love the acorns. Poplar do tend to break easy in high winds, but give great shade in summer. I like hickory. If I run out of split hickory for the smoker or grill you can always take a 1" branch and use it. Oaks and hickory will stain roofs cars whatever.

Jon

[Lanier_Lurker]

Speaking of staining, yellow poplar leaves are the worst.  Do not let them sit on cars or decks for any length of time if they are wet.

They can leave a horrible "toilet bowl" ring.

This is one of the few negative characteristics of yellow poplar as an overhanging shade tree (IMHAO*).

And about their wind-firmness: for a hardwood they may be relatively weak, but compared to pines they seem much sturdier (IMHAO*).  The biggest problem I have is self-pruning episodes when they drop a decent sized limb on my deck, roof, or picnic table. 


* In My Humble Amateur Opinion

[Phorester]

In my 30+ years of experience looking at yard tree problems, white oak seems to tolerate being taken out of a woods environment into a yard environnment better than any other species.  But they are very slow growing, with the acorns and leaves that seem to stay on the tree until the following spring.  But they do live, whereas others don't. 

Remember that forest trees are used to growing in a forest envoronment all their lives with un-compacted soil and mutual shade.  So trees that have lived in this environment for 50 - 100+ years are suddenly subjected to root damage by bulldozers, trenches, fill or cuts, soil compaction by driveways, then lawnmowers, bright open sunlight and heat, it is quite a shock and many of them don't survive the first 10 years of this new, very harsh environment. 

People complain that builders bulldoze down all the trees, build a house, then plant new trees instead of keeping the existing ones.  But I sometimes think that's the best way to do it.  Otherwise, the trees they kept just die from extensive root problems 5 - 10 years after the lot is cleared and the house built.

[WDH]

Like Phorester said, there are many stresses that are placed on trees in a residential environment.  Compaction is one of the most significant stressors.  Also, developers like to pile dirt around the base of trees, and that almost always results in mortality.  Care must be taken to protect the native trees.

[Ironwood]

I would definitely go for diversity. Keep a bit of each as it seems every year there is a new foriegn invader hitting this species or that. Having a bit of everything wil lgive you some longer term insurance.


 Ironwood

[SwampDonkey]

Up here in my clime I would go with sugar maple red maple and white ash. All sturdy wind firm trees with wonderful fall color. Then I would choose white oak for it's scarlet color, I'm not too keen on red oak because it just turns brown. Hickories, if they behave like walnut and butternut, just turn yellow and drop leaves too soon. What color does sycamore turn? I assume yellow, but it has interesting bark. 

[Lanier_Lurker]

SD, we need to get some scarlet oak acorns up there for you to try.  They may be the showiest of the red oaks in fall.  If I can find any this year we will try again.

You are right, some white oaks can be very showy.  We have some around here that turn almost a lavender colour.

And as far as hickories go, the showiest species I have seen is mockernut.  I have several around here that turn lemon yellow and hold their leaves pretty well.

Mockernut hickory and scarlet oak might work up there.  Isawlogs also had a thread going where he was looking for something in trade for horsechestnut.  Not sure if you and he are in similar hardiness zones or not.  I have read conflicting info about the cold hardiness of scarlet oak and mockernut hickory, and the lowest zone number I have seen for either is 4.

[SwampDonkey]

I'm in zone 4C here. Marcel would be much the same, as some of our softwood tree seedlings come from Ottawa Valley. He ain't too far away as he's a Gatineau boy. But, one thing about using that (frost hardiness zones) is you have to use seed sourced from the same zone. It's not as simple as saying scarlet oak can grow in zone 4. Although, I like experimenting, I have known this for quite some time.

I have a white oak from NH, it does very well here. But as one of the guys stated above it is a very slow grower. But the color in the fall will dazzle you. It's still as green as grass.

[Lanier_Lurker]

Yep, provenance is a big factor.  But, it may be fun to try anyway.

I am on the 7A/7B border.

[Dodgy Loner]

People complain that builders bulldoze down all the trees, build a house, then plant new trees instead of keeping the existing ones.  But I sometimes think that's the best way to do it.  Otherwise, the trees they kept just die from extensive root problems 5 - 10 years after the lot is cleared and the house built.

I kind of like it when they leave the native trees when building a subdivision.  I've gotten some very nice white oaks and water oaks that way when the trees finally succumb to "bulldozeritis" .  In all seriousness, though, what really bugs the crappola outta me is that when people clear all the trees and replant, they inevitably plant Bradford pears .  Or, if they do plant a nice white oak or red maple, they plant it directly under the power lines, where the power company is sure to cut the top off in about 5 or 10 years.

[SwampDonkey]

I plant mostly native except for a Norway maple, hybrid poplar, and apple trees. I have some trees near lines, but not directly under them so laterals can be removed and not hurt too much. Actually it's the darn power company's fault for moving the line over to my side of the road anyway. All because of a mouthy neighbor when they were upgrading poles 30 years ago. First they moved the transformer pole in between two of my old rock maples until they gained their common sense God gave them.

[WDH]

I enjoy the oaks around my house.  No acorns this year here.  The deer, turkeys, and hogs will suffer.  So will the squirrels.  Been too DanG droughty.  Totally bone-dry now.

[Lanier_Lurker]

My various red oak species have not started dropping acorns yet, but I already know that the urban/landscape shumards that I routinely see are covered with acorns this year.  My wild scarlets, blacks, northern reds look like they may be off this year in terms of nut production.

However, I am under attack right now from all of my mature white oaks. I don't think I have ever seen (or heard) such a crop of acorns fall.  I think they produce acorns on a 2 year cycle, but it is like they all are on the same 2 year cycle.  With one tree that approaches 100ft in height overhanging my driveway, those suckers can almost hit terminal velocity before hitting the ground - or my car.

I also expect typical nut production from the hickories this year, but perhaps not as many as last year.

[WDH]

LL,

That is interesting.  I am getting no white oak acorns at all.  The drought up your way may have stressed the trees, and they are putting a lot of energy into reproduction.  It has been dry here too, just not as dry as in your area.

What are others seeing?

[Dodgy Loner]

Huge acorn crop in Rabun County.  Standing under white oaks may be hazardous to your health.  It's a bumper crop for all fruit trees, including apples, pears, peaches, persimmons, cherries, grapes...A very good year for our fruit producers.

[Lanier_Lurker]

Yep, I am seeing bumper crops of persimmon around here as well.

[SwampDonkey]

It's a good year for beech nuts. Not so good for ironwood nuts, butternut, red oak and hard maple. My red oak in the yard had some, but very few. Long gone now as the coons and skunks eat them up as they drop. The white oak was full of flowers this spring, but nothing for acorns. The bur oaks were way down in production as they were last year. Only found one that I beat of a limb with a stick. We have had lots of rain, 10 inches above normal for the year. 6 inches about a week ago, is more than we get in a normal month total. But it has dried out on top quick, in the woods though there is water everywhere. No beaked hazel, two years ago was a bumper crop.

[Tom]

Few acorns on my place in N.E. Florida, of any variety.  Practically none on the Chestnut white oaks.  Red bay's are dying by the drove.

[Dodgy Loner]

I was in the Okefenokee last spring, and the red bays were a sad sight, indeed .  That's one type of tree I've always wanted to saw, but never got the opportunity.  Now that they're dying off and I live way the heck up in north GA, I wonder if I'll ever get the chance.

[Tom]

It's a good tree to saw.  The wood is relatively soft, about like Loblolly bay, and pretty too.  I love the smell and will miss having the leaves and wood to flavor my grill.

[Don K]

The wateroaks and the red oak in my yard have acorns hanging like grapes. Don't know about the whiteoaks in the woods. Also noted that the persimmons are heavily laden. Deer hunting will be tougher this year but the squirrels need it as they have not really rebounded from Ivan and Dennis that came through a few yrs back.

Don