Charlie's silver maple

[Tom]

Charlie asked me what might have happened to his silver maple.  It has been split for awhile this summer and he was wondering if it was going to live and heal OK.   It's in Wisconsin



You can see the split on the other side too, but it is just a slit and not opened up wide like this side.

[Lanier_Lurker]

If that ain't a lightning strike then I have no idea what it is.

How do the leaves look?

[Tom]

I thought it was too, but the tree is only 6" in diameter and I thought it might have frozen last winter.
Other than the split, the tree seems healthy.

[Lanier_Lurker]

Oh right.  He lives up in the tundra, yes?

Was it Wisconsin?

[Tom]

Yeah, He's just east of St. Paul

[WDH]

I ain't familiar with tundral effects.

[Lanier_Lurker]

This sounds like something for the Donk to weigh in on.  He lives in the tundra also.

[Tom]

I tried to tell Charlie not to go up there. 

[Gary_C]

I see a lot of trees like that in the northern part of MN and WI and nobody wants to commit on the cause of the damage. Most foresters call that a frost crack and others will say it is lightning damage. I have seen areas in the northern forests where many trees show that type of damage and they do not have all that many lightning storms. So maybe the best answer is that it could be both reasons.

But regardless of the cause, the chances of a silver maple in the northern fringe of it's normal growing area living with that damage to remain a good shade tree are not good. If the tree is not in an area where it could cause any property damage he could just leave it and see how it does. I would probably just cut it and start something else in its place.

[Tom]

I  think he has a whole grove of the things ina little woods behind the house.  This one is not very big and is pratically standing alone with a few other silver maples in the back of a large yard.   Even if it matured, taking it down wouldn't be a problem.

[thecfarm]

Did he do some thinning around it?I'm claiming back an old pasture and when I get some trees in the open they get sun burned.

[Tom]

No, these trees have been planted in an open yard that has existed for some time.  while the trees aren't old, they aren't newly planted.

[DanG]

It looks to me like the little tree has made a lot of progress toward healing itself.  I doubt it would have survived a lightning hit that split it through, so it is probably a frost crack.  What concerns me is, if the tree does heal itself before the bugs take it out, won't it be weakened considerabley?  You Foresters correct me if I'm wrong, but won't the healing just occur by growing new wood on the outer periphery of the stem, and leave the crack through the middle?  Wouldn't that make it a hazardous tree to cut down 20 years from now, especially if the cutter doesn't know it is damaged on the inside?  I think I would cut the DanG thing down now and plant a new one in its place.

[WDH]

It is likely that the damage has introduced heart rot fungi into the tree.  External wounds are the most significant portal of infection for these fungi.  Given that the tree will probably develop heart rot, it might be a better choice to invest the future in a more healthy specimen.

However, this little tree could live for a long time.

[Brian Beauchamp]

Trees in an open-growing state where the bole is exposed to direct sunlight will do that when the ground is frozen at times because of the expansion of the wood from the heat of the sun. Since the tree cannot draw water from the ground, which is what maintains its elasticity, the bark, cambium and/or xylem will split. It does provide an entrance point for pathogens, but that one looks like it'll be fine.

[Dave Shepard]

Tom, I think you should do the brotherly thing and offer to overwinter Charlies poor little tree this winter so it doesn't frost crack again.


Dave

[Tom]

I would, dave, but shipping is horrendous. 

Brian, that sounds like the environment in which the tree lives. It's split plum through.

[WDH]

It's split plum through.

Tom,

That is interesting vernacular.  How many people use "plum" as an adjective, like "I am plum full as a tick".  It has been a while since I heard that usage, takes me back to my childhood and my Granny .

[Tom]

I don't know, Danny. It just kinda rolled easily off of my lips like it was the thing to say.

[Lanier_Lurker]

Last time I heard "plum" used as an adjective was to describe a person as being "plum" loco - which I guess is just plain crazy.

[SwampDonkey]

I agree somewhat with Brian's assessment and I suspect the crack is on the side of the tree facing southwesterly. I see it here on mostly nursery stock from a warmer plant hardiness zone.

[beenthere]

I agree somewhat with Brian's assessment and I suspect the crack is on the side of the tree facing southwesterly. I see it here on mostly nursery stock from a warmer plant hardiness zone.

In my experience, such cracks are only on that face, and do not go "plum" (or plumb) through. I understood Tom to say the crack to be on both faces. To me that rules out the effects of early spring warming of the cambium layer and injury as a result of subsequent below-freezing temperatures.

Most of the 800 walnut trees in my plantation have that injury (overgrown scar) on the SW face. To the point, I often wish I'd planted a small arborvitae on that side of the tree to shade it in the spring time. 

[SwampDonkey]

Ok, plumb is the key eh?  Only plumb I seen or heard was hung from a string at a survey station, as in plumb bob. Or used to describe how level and true to measurement the house construction was. 

Tom, you have me cornfused again. 

[Tom]

Appalachian English

The above link will take you to an article that may explain some of the use of the vernacular.  Understand that it is not necessarily a bonafide proven fact that the article is true, but is rather an explanation for the use of various words by persons of a specific geographic area.

While the article refers to Appalachian history,  the use of the vernacular is found in other areas as well.  Some of these areas have little to do with Appalachian history, other than the fact that peoples may have passed through and picked up the sayings.  Or, that the peoples originated from the same geographical/grammatical area.  In this instance, the Appalachian folks are represented by the same genealogy as the people in S.C, Ga. and Ala. as they traveled west from their homelands in the Border lands of Scotland, Ireland, Wales and England.

While it is common to "correct" words in the vernacular, like plum actually being plumb, the correction is not necessarily a correct assumption.  English, in the vernacular, is most often a spoken communication and not followed up by written confirmation.  Whether the word be plum or plumb is up to the individuals interpretation.

In this instance where I used it, it is intended to reflect a picture of thoroughness or completeness, not a picture, necessarily, of level or direction.  So, you should read my statement as ..........completely split.  I wouldn't use "completely split", though, because it could also carry the conotation of being splintered, a situation not existing here.  Statements, in the vernacular, are, many times, more accurately descriptive than what some people would use and call correct English.

[Dave Shepard]

Must have been fairly common at one time for Dodge to have a Plum Crazy Purple.


Dave

[tyb525]

They still use "Plum" around here in Indiana. 

[CHARLIE]

After reading WDH's post, I went and took a closer look at the tree trunk. The trunk under the bark is split and there seems to be some fungus and rot starting. There is a small circle of what looks like decay starting and another place that looks like black mold. the bark and cambium layer is trying to heal but leving the wood and its split open to the environment. By the way....SwampDonkey was correct. The major split is on the Southwest side of the tree.

After seeing what is happening along the split of the wood, I'm thinking I might have to take it down. I might wait awhile longer and see what happens before I do that though. It's a beautiful tree and it is about 8 to 10 years old.  I hate to lose it.  If I have to replant, it'll be a long time before I'll see a tree there of that size. Heck! I'll be in my mid 70s by then! 

[thecfarm]

As they say,How old would you be if you did not plant the tree?

[SwampDonkey]

Yeah, I here ya Charlie. It takes 20-30 years up this way to get a nice sized yard tree. That's a lot of time invested. 

[Chuck White]

I've seen 4to10 inch trees split like that when they get heavily laden with snow and bend to the ground.
Sometimes they actually snap off, but other times, the wood within the tree just shifts and the tree splits.
They will usually survive, but would never make very good lumber.

[SPIKER]

I see that around here inOHIO a lot too,  smaller trees exposed to the sun in winter will warm up like mentioned, then re-freeze and crack.   usually on the south south-west side.   there are a lot of ways to prevent, some paint the stems white others use burlap and stakes to make a small tent around the tree to prevent.   Once cracked it is likely to get worse every season.   so while survival is likely long term the tree will keep the scar showing until it totally grows over.   also if it is near the house then when it does it is likely to be hollow and more prone to damaging something nearby. 

just my 2 cents worth.  with inflation that means it is worth about 1/200ths of a penny if the penny was made prior to 1982 when it was all copper!  

mark

[PC-Urban-Sawyer]

All this talk of "plum" and nobody even remarked on the fact that the thread had made its way to food!

After all, if a plum pie was good enough for Little Jack Horner, who are we to complain?