A peek at my sawbooth

[Jeff]

Here are a 3 photos showing the controls and control panel in a fairly modern sawmill.

You not only have to be a sawyer, you have to be an electrical engineer.

In the last photo above, you might pick out the 3 foot controls that I use too.

[Tom]

mine is not that complicated. I don't think Iwould like to saw like that, you have to be too smart.

[Bibbyman]

I've passed by the kids playing at the arcade all those times thinking; "What in the world will these kids aver be good for?"  

Now I see what they have been training for….:P:P:P

[Jeff]

Thats what my kids tell friends, They say my job is like playing a very boring video game, except you can really get killed.

[Gordon]

Jeff, your job is starting to sound alittle like mine now.

I believe there is no way I could do that for 8/40--I'd go crazy. You earn every penny of your money.

Gordon

[Tom]

Why don't you describe what all those handles and buttons do?  I'de like to know.  Is there any computerization, like something to level the log?  Where do you sit in relation to the sawblade?
Is the booth soundproofed at all or is it for climate control and cleanliness.  (Maybe they lock you in there to keep you at work)

I have to eat most of my sawdust.  It saves on lunch money but all that fiber will stop you every now and again while you visit the woods.

[marc]

I myself would also like to know what all those handles and buttons do because when I go to get my wood milled I often wonder what he is doing when he is milling my wood.

[Ron Wenrich]

Geez, my ain't quite that complicated.  I don't have the double sets of buttons.  Sorry, no pictures at this time.

On my controls I have on the left joystick:  downturns, forward, set, and reverse.  These control the headblock directions.  The left joystick also controls carriage direction.

My right joystick controls are:  taper return, dogs in/out, dog up/down, and cant flipper.  Right joystick controls bar turner forward and back, and log slapper left and right.

Center control panel includes set selector (4/4,5/4,6/4,8/4,12/4,& 2").  Also includes taper sets for 4 headblocks.  Toggle switches include saw sets for the vertical edger, offbearer on/off, end gate up/down, slab dump, and 4 taper sets.  I can also shut my end dogs off, which speeds up the time it takes to dog shorter logs.

Foot pedals are only 2.  Log deck and stop and loader.

I'm sawing grade logs from 8' to 23'.  Longer stuff is primarily switch tie material.  I don't use a computerized setworks, so, starts have to be eyeballed.  I have only recently gotten laser lights for the vertical edger.  They actually slowed me down a little, but a better yield on wider boards.

Sawing is pretty much getting into a rhythm.  As long as the logs are bucked right, you can go to town.  A crooked log will mess up your rhythm, then you have to build it back up again.  Same goes for nails.

Pretty much you can go on auto pilot.  The only challenges are when you are sawing mixed thicknesses in various grades.  

Tulip poplar may be sawn 12/4 F1F and better, 4/4 F1F and better, 5/4 1 and 2a Common, 4/4 casket cuts, and 4/4 pallet, or some combination like that.  Sometimes get 8/4 F1F and better red oak order, which is fun to cut.  I have a standing order for 16/4 white oak (hard to get), in any quantity.

Blocking can range from 3 1/2 x 6, 6 x 8 ties, 7 x 9 ties, & bridge timbers from 8 x  8 to 10 x 17.

When a log rolls onto the carriage, you pretty much can tell what you're going to cut, and how you're going to cut it.  

[Gordon]

Ron, it sounds like that you were starting to get a rhythm just posting about sawing.  

Jeff, so what are some of those buttons levers and foot pedals for anyway? That picture of the plywood reminds me of an old general store that at the entrance has had a whole bunch of foot traffic.

Gordon

[L. Wakefield]

   I'm trying to make out the panel in the third shot..is that like an electrical panel with the guts kinda hanging out and sawdust all over? Looks a little like my cellar, which I keep meaning to tidy up and tuck the wires back where they belong..   lw

[Jeff]

The third shot is the electrical juction box. Just open no guts hanging out!

This is where all the wires from the control switches, micro switches, delay timers and etc. come together to be routed on to the carriage, or sensors or other places they need to go.
A real freaken maze when you get a short.

[marc]

Thanks for sharing your saw both with us, I know I leant a lot.

[Gordon]

Jeff what do all the buttons do on the board? Please tell us more.

Also all the little buttons on the hand controls

Gordon

[Jeff]

O.k., I'll try, but I aint sure about all off em.

Orange control stand

Top row are lights. Left to right:

Forward Limit ( so you don't cut off your doggies)
Low Hyd. Oil
Cooling Fan on
Tapers engaged
Setworks power supply indicator.

Next row down just a skosh and to the right, from left to right:
Oil cooling fan on/off
Setworks power on/off

Next Row:  Stick on Calandar

Next Row slightly below middle, white: Setworks settings buttons. Currently set at 1&1/16   5/4  6/4  8/4  1&1/8


Next row, big black buttons at bottom. Taper controls for the three head blocks.  (Three silver to the right are blanks)

Left hand Control:  Away from me is feed, toward me is gig back.

Top row of switches. Fast forward for setworks,blank switch,blank switch, Switch to activate or deactivate dog assembly on 3rd head block.

Bottom row left hand control.
slow forward, set button, fast reverse.


Right controler is on a wobble. 4 way valve that makes log turner go up and down, and side to side movement makes log turner chain rotate one way or the other.

Right controler, top row.

Blank switch, blank switch, toggle for moving verticle edger blades together or apart, toggle for moving edger bladse up and down together.

Bottom row.

Return to normal button for taper,
bottom dog logturner,
dogs up and down
dogs in and out


Left foot pedal drops end gate on rollers for lumber to go straight or closes it for lumber to go another way.

First right pedal, stop unloader, Rolls logs onto carriage
second right pedal, log deck chain, moves logs up deck to the carriage.

[Ron Wenrich]

Your feed controls are backwards from mine.  I pull to feed, and push back to retrurn.

I have them set that way, since that is how I learned on a handmill.  Never broke the habit.

They were set that way on the old mills, in case something hit you from behind (like a limb or branch stub) as you pulled the carriage towards the saw.  If that happened, it would return the carriage instead of dragging you through the saw.

I wonder how many sawyers they went through 'til they figured that one out.

[CHARLIE]

Well, me being rather simple minded, I think that it's enough that Jeff and Ron know which buttons do what. What I want to know is.......how long do y'all sit in that cab moving levers and pushing buttons before you get to stand up and walk around a bit?   I'm sure the day flies by 'cause you are having to concentrate on every log that comes through, and probably get rather tense, but I'm not sure I could sit in one spot like that all day. How do y'all do that? Is there someone that relieves you for awhile? Do you trade off jobs with someone else? Do you have to keep a jumbo tube of Preparation H?  :-/

[Ron Wenrich]

Concentrate on logs?  No way.  I only have to pay close attention to big logs, crooked logs, or logs that have blue on the ends (shows metal).  The rest of the time I listen to the radio - ear buds under my head phones.  Or you sit there and figure things out - like those calculators.

Now that doesn't mean you don't pay attention to what you're doing.  You still have to make decisions on when to turn logs, how to set tapers, etc.; but, a lot of that is now second nature.

I also pay attention to noises and the way things feel.  It lets me know when a bearing is going out, or some other problem is developing.  Getting it fixed is another problem.

I start sawing at 6:30 and saw until noon.  Then sharpen up after lunch and saw until 4:00.  Only half day on Friday.  I take no breaks except when nature calls.  I also sub-contract and get paid for production, not time spent.  So, I have an incentive to keep the carriage moving.

I have no one else that can saw, so when I take a vacation, the mill shuts down.  Same goes for when I'm sick.  I usually don't take any sick days, and only 1 week of vacation.

Sawing is like driving 100 mph in rush hour traffic.  But, if you're Mario Andretti, it's a walk in the park.

[Jeff]

Ron just said what I would say!

I spend much of my day figuring out computer related problems.  Now, it seems like we are making lite of our jobs, and that anybody could do them.  

Not so. We just have a gazillion hours in the *DanG booth, so its kinda like breathing, you just do it without notice till you get a runny nose.

I would say I was proficient at sawing after my first year, dangerous till my 5th year, and unmatched after 10. I now believe I am nearing sawyer senility.

Charlie, I do have trouble staying in the booth these days. My mind out grew the sawing  long ago and I have trouble getting myself going each and every morning now.

[CHARLIE]

I know the skill is there and you have to keep alert, but I just don't know if I could sit in one of those cabs all day 'cept for a lunch break.  I watched a crane operator last month as he literally disassembled some temporary buildings put up in 1976 ( ). He was very skillful but had to sit in that cab all dang day working those levers. Same thing when I worked for the railroad, no way could I be an engineer. Handling a lot of cars take skill but they are locked into their seats and looking through a mirror all day.  I reckon that's why y'all get paid those big bucks.....huh?

[CHARLIE]

OK, I'll fess up. Even though y'all are captured in that complicated cab, at least you can see the out of doors. I work (I'll use that term loosely) in the core of a huge building sitting behind a danged terminal all day. If I want to know what is going on outside, I have to take a long walk to a window. Sometimes, if it's raining hard enough, I can tell that it's raining, 'cause I can hear it on the roof. When winter comes and the days get short, I miss daytime a lot of the time. It's dark when I drive to work and then it's dark when it's time to go home.  So, I reckon all jobs have their pluses and their minuses.  

[Jeff]

I only see the out of doors every 3 hours at break. I know everybody's job has it's downfalls.

Here is what you can do to get a good idea of a sawyers day.

Go in your smallest bathroom (Without windows), put the lid down on the stool, sit down. Now start swinging your arms back and forth steadily,  and tap your feet alternately on occasion. Now do this for 9 hours, stopping once at midday to flush.

[CHARLIE]

OK, I'm off to the bathroom to swing my arms and tap my feet. I just hope I can remember to come out of there after nine hours. This is gonna be fun!

[Jeff]

Private message from Charlie:

Jeff, can I come out of the bathroom yet? I've lost track of time and don't know if my 9 hours is up yet, but my arms and feet are getting mighty tired. It's been fun though, but I think my wife things I'm a bit strange and is tired of me hogging the bathroom.

Yes Charlie, you may come out.

[CHARLIE]

Whew! Thanks Jeff!  And my wife thanks you too just like all good children do.

[Gordon]

Charlie you make me laugh. That was a hoot.  

I know for a fact I couldn't stay in the booth all day every day. Not an easy job.

Gordon

[Bibbyman]

Here is a picture I took at the Midwest Forest Industry Show of the command station on the new Wood-Mizer LT300.  Don't even have to use your feet!  



For more pictures I took at the show,  try this link.

http://www.cartogra.com/home/ViewMyAlbum.asp?coll_id=1050860

[Jeff]

Now your Stylin.

When you gettin yours?

[Don P]

Nice pics! Are the controls the same basic layout as Jeff's?
The outfeed shots were very informative. Thats definitely my bottleneck, well other than the infeed  
I am curious, the Amish were crowding  around the LT300, do they not frown on the electrical controls, I do just cause I get lost with my 2.(throttle and feed)

[Bibbyman]

I'm always curious about the Amish and Mennonites.  We have quite a verity around here and they all have somewhat different rules..  We have "Black bumper" Mennonites that can drive cars but they have to paint over all the chrome.  Then we have some "iron wheel Mennonites" that has about every thing anyone else has but they can't have inflated tires.  Really odd to see a new combine or tractor going down the road with iron wheels or a nice brick ranch house with a John Deere riding lawn mower setting on the lawn with iron wheels.  

Early last winter I talked a long time with a young Amish man that was a logger.  He wanted to get into the sawmill business. Saw him again Saturday.  (He lives on the western side of Missouri and the show was in St. Charles - just outside of St. Louis.  That's a long way in a buggy!)  He'd just got a new Wood-Mizer LT40 Super Hydraulic mill and had it running five days.  12v DC was all right but he could not use the hydraulic pump so he converted it over to air over hydraulic.  Said there was oil in lines and cylinders but was powered by air.  Don't know how that would work.   He had all kinds of plans for support equipment and automation - just had to be powered the right way.  

I sold my blade sharpener to some Amish brothers that removed the 110ac converter and run it off 12v dc.  

I've heard that Amish won't use mules to farm with because they are not natural animals as they are a hybrid.  But with the market for mules being good, they will raise them from their draft horse mares and train them - or take them as colts from others and train them. One thing in common,  they have no problem with making money.

And yes,  I did note more then one Amish man climb up in the control chair and get detailed instructions on how it all worked.  They really looked it over and asked a lot of questions.  I think they were more than curious about the mill,   I think they were interested.  

[CHARLIE]

There's quite a few Amish in Minnesota too and sometimes I get confused about what they can and can't do. They have horses and wagons, no cars or tractors. But they can catch a ride to town in the nonAmish neighbor's car. They can't have a telephone but they can use the nonAmish neighbor's telephone. They can't have a TV, but they can watch the nonAmish neighbor's TV.  I thought they weren't supposed to use bright colors, but I saw a couple of 'em fishing in the Root River once with brand new spinning rods with chartreuse or international orange colored lures. :-/  

I've seen an Amish woodworking shop. They remove all electric motors and run all the saws, jointers, etc using big canvas belts attached to pulleys on one long shaft which is turned using a gasoline engine (not sure why they can use a gasoline engine but can't have a tractor or car. )

The Amish sell a lot of nice oak furniture and cabinets here in these parts. People also hire them to help them dismantle old barns or homes.

[Ron Wenrich]

Quite a few Amish, Mennonite, and Bretheran in my area.  I have worked for each.  I live on the fringe of the Pennsylvania Dutch Amish area, but they are also in the central portion of the state.  Wherever there is farmland, that is reasonably priced.

What the Amish can and can't have will depend on their church.  If they don't like it, they can start their own church.  A church has a minimum of 6 families.

I've seen Amish with no electric in the house, but had electric to the barn.  That's where they kept the deep freeze and refrigerator.  Then there are Amish that have no electric.

They often have a telephone at someone else's farm.  Often there is a building at a neighbor's farm.  I call them an Amish phone booth.  I spoke to one Amishman and remarked that there was a lock on the door.  He told me "the Amish, we trust".  Calls were written down and each month they would pay their bill.

I know one Amish logger who bought a truck for another guy to haul logs.  He paid all expenses, just couldn't have any vehicles in his name.  The same goes for vans that haul the Amish all over.

Most Amish mills run on hydraulic power, in my area.  One of the big hydraulic repair and parts shop is run by Amish.  They have now upgraded to having hydraulic engineers on staff.

One of the largest mills in the state is owned by an Amishman.  I've never been through the mill, but it runs like all other mills.  Has 440 electric.  I don't know how he has sidestepped the church.

[Bibbyman]

We have a large Amish community north of us in Missouri.  Mennonites and Amish to the south and others scattered here and there.  You can drive through the area to the north and they have all kinds of bakeries, harness shops, buggy shops.  All expected.  But what you don't expect is the auto body shops,  HVIC shops,  and the sawmills and pallet factories.  

Mary worked with an Amish lady last week at a large,  national,  five-day draft horse and mule auction.  Sometime during the week,  the Amish lady pulled a ticket out of her purse and showed it to Mary.  It was from the observation deck of the WTC in NY one week before the September,11 tragedy.  After the auction, she and her husband was booked to fly to Seattle and then tour of Alaska and Canada.

Mary loves to shop at a Mennonite grocery store south of us.  They continue to expand and most of their products are now bar-coded.  

[Don P]

I think I lit a fire and left.
I didn't realize there were so many groups or factions in the faith. We only have one group at home and they use horsepower for everything, 2 to saw pine 4 for oak. The solar kiln fans are powered by the spring. I was only given basic directions when I was told they may be interested in my services but the iron wheel tracks on the pavement and "road apples" led me right to the door. We didn't see eye to eye, (yes you build to code) but thats the beauty of the country, room for both. They do seem to be good people, I would have a hard time working that hard in the face of ease.

[Ron Wenrich]

The Amish I've been around really do work in ease.  They don't have a lot of the trappings we do.

They have hot water, electric where they need it, kerosene lights that are as bright as electric, and farms that are paid for.  They keep this way of life to keep the kids out of trouble (so I've been told).  They usually lack education, and often that hurts them.

I was amazed how quickly they can park a buggy and get the horse in the barn.  Actually, the horse goes in by himself.  It was no slower than parking a car.  And they don't have to worry about gas or insurance.

We did have an Amish buggy going through all the stop signs in one town, without stopping.  It was pretty late at night.  The town cops stopped traffic and finally got the buggy stopped.  In the back, an Amishman was as drunk as a skunk.  The horse was the designated driver.  The Amishman got busted for drunk driving.  

We even had a few Amish boys busted for dealing in cocaine.  Seems they met a few of the Pagan motorcycle club members when out on a construction job.  Started dealing to their friends.  The court gave them a sentence, then the church took care of them.

[Bibbyman]

Yea,  I was setting in the car while Mary was shopping in an Amish bakery.   The bakery was really an extension of the farmhouse.  While I was waiting,  an Amish boy about 12 climbed up on a big farm wagon pulled buy four big Belgian horses.  The boy backed the wagon into the barn a pretty as you please.   I couldn't have backed a Radio Flyer any better.   :-/

The first Wood-Mizer mill I every saw in real life was owned by an Amish man.  Eli and his sons had and old LT30 set up under some trees across the road from his house.  I visited with him and actually negotiated to buy his mill before I bought a new one.  I have stopped in several times since and visited with him.  One time I told him I'd just like to watch how they did things and stood in the log yard out of the way.  Eli had a couple of Belgians hitched to a sled he used to skid logs to the skid blocks.  They stood there an hour with their lines thrown over their backs not moving from their tracks except to swat a horsefly or two.  Eli went out and rolled a log on the sled and went "Chic-Chic" and the Belgians stepped up and pull the sled to the skid blocks.  The lines were thrown back over their backs and they were still standing there when I left a half-hour latter.

While I have also seen some Amish and Mennonites display the bad habits of the world and have heard of worse stories,  most I find are gentle and hard working.  

This one young Amish man I referred to in an earlier post had talked to me several times about my Wood-Mizer mill.  We visited quite a lot and I felt comfortable asking him some dumb questions about the rules in his community.  He was polite and answered them.  The last visit he made,  he brought his young wife.  He wanted her to see just what he was talking about getting.  He urged her forward and explained the mill to her and what he was going to do when he got his.   I didn't need him to translate the look on her face!  I've seen it a thousand times - arms crossed,  one foot stuck out in advance of the other with toe tapping,  jaw set,  lips tightly pressed,  eyes slightly squinted.  To her it was a MAN THING    - something big and orange that made noise and tore things up.  

As I said,  I seen him again last Saturday and he got his mill - a new Wood-Mizer LT40HD42D Super.  I didn't see his wife.

[Gordon]

We have a pretty good amount of  Amish in this area. One of my good friends is Amish. It's amazing the trouble they go through not to be vain. But they really skirt the rules of the church.

Can't own an item with air in the rubber tires in this area. So what does he do for a tractor. Has a Kubota in his English drivers name. But now I've found him an ASV positrac on the internet. What that is a rubber tracked tractor sort of like a bobcat with tracks.

He owns his own carpentry business. His crew really busts  butt at work and they get paid well for it. They are all Amish men except for the English driver. Oh and the driver lives right down the street from him and that is where the deep freeze is at.

The homestead he has built is beautiful. A beautiful house that is wired for electric but has blank plates over all of the outlets. The reason he did this is just in case he wants to sell down the road it's open for anyone not just an Amish man. Also a carriage house, horse barn, wood shop and large implement shed. on 24 acres. Just bought 125 acres to deer hunt on in the eastern shore of MD. All cash money and he is 33 years old. A real hard worker.

What really gets me is his wood shop. He bought all new delta electric tools for the shop and took all of the electric motors off and installed air noters on them. Except for the plainer and the table saw they are run by hydraulic. The air and fluid are from a yanmar diesel. He has three large old propane tanks that are for air storage. This way if only using the well pump {air powered} he only has to start the diesel once a week to pump up the air pressure.

If anyone is interested in some brand new electric motors they are for sale.

Quite a different way to live. But I can say this the anti skid that they weld onto the horse shoes in this area really tears up the roads. The good thing is that the buggies have lights on them. Much easier to see than just the SMV sign on the back.

They just got the little phone booths a couple of years ago. Quite an event for them.

Shew-- I beat the refresh clock

Gordon

[Ron Wenrich]

Bibbyman:

Do your Amish speak Dutch or have they lost that?  All the Amish speak it, as do many Mennonites and Bretheran.  Some of the older people speak it, but it is being lost on the young kids.

My Dad could speak a little bit, and it helped him out quite a bit in WWII.  My Grandparents (Mom's side) didn't speak English until grade school.  They didn't pass on the PA Dutch to their kids.

[Bibbyman]

Yea, Ron, that was one of he questions I asked my new Amish friend.  

We had visited with the Amish families some and all the little kids just stood quietly by and smiled up at me.  Normally,  kids talk my ear off.  I asked him if they were taught to not speak to outsiders or did they not speak English.  He said they were taught German (Dutch?) at home and would only latter pick up English.  But they probably could understand me.  

Said also they were taught not to speak when elders are talking.  

[Don P]

Sounds like they're just non electric baptists, Dad always told us to been seen and not heard,  I must be making up for lost time.

They must be speaking German (Deutsh) , Michelle is from Dutch stock and doesn't recall any Amish.

I've chopped holes for 26 electric boxes the last 2 days. That off grid living is sounding ok at the moment.

[Ron Wenrich]

Pennsylvania Dutch are Germans.  The Dutch part is Anglicized for Deutsch.  It is a low German and a lot of English has been put in.

In our area, a heavy German accent is still evident in a lot of our pronounciations.  Much of it is being lost, thanks to TV.

For example, I never heard of Swiss cheese when I was growing up.  It was always called Schweitzer cheese.  That's German for Swiss.

If you want some real fun with those kids, get them seperate from their parents.  They'll talk your ear off.  They're really curious about the outsiders.

[swampwhiteoak]

The Amish I've encountered both in KY and OH all seem to have a german accent.  I can't keep straight who's allowed TV and who isn't or who can do this or that.  It's all very confusing.

One Amish fellow has a state of the art furniture making shop, some have fairly new sawmills.  But they can't have a telephone.  Kinda strange logic if you ask me, but I guess they didn't.

[Eggsander]

Like Charlie said there's quite a few Amish in southeastern MN. Despite the differences in how they go about things, they definately ain't foolish or poor. They apparently own a good portion of Fillmore County and are buying up more all the time.
There is also a Hutterite (sp?) community in Mower County. They have a manufacturing facility as modern as any I've ever seen. They produce tenderfoot flooring and grain augers among other things. Can't help but chuckle a little when you see all these guys that look like there from back in time running these huge modern pieces of equipment.
We used to sell some hog slats to the Hutterites out in SD. If you wanted to keep their business you had to leave the jug of McMasters in the culvert at the end of the driveway.  

[Jeff]

I hear the amish are working on an electricity substitute involving kites, strings, butter churns, and lightning bolts. Details are sketchy, but I'm told that since lightning is provided by God, it's OK to use it. Another group is reportedly trying to utilize static electricity by means of rubbing sheep on carpets and balloons, but this may just be a rumor.

[Don P]

Thought ya'll might like to see my mill. Its a Timberking M-14, swinging a 46"blade. The carriage runs over the mandrel, you can just see the PTO collar past the left rail. Thats my homemade radial blower along the back wall. I'm standing at the outfeed end. Check out my headblocks compared to Ron and Jeff's

[Kevin]

Here`s a peek at my saw booth.



I`ve gotta get some heat in there!

[Tom]

I saw a fellow from Nebraska today that put heat in a sawbooth kinda like you got Kevin. Yep,  He's got a Logosol and he moved it to South Georgia.