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Author Topic: Timber Prices  (Read 4106 times)

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Offline Texas Ranger

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Timber Prices
« on: July 20, 2008, 10:05:22 pm »
SYP saw logs on the last state report were $26.61 per ton, or $211.37 per thousand bd ft.  This is the lowest it has been since December of 1991.
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Offline timberfaller390

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Re: Timber Prices
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2008, 06:50:43 pm »
spec sheet from the mill I haul to reads as follows:
yellow pine in 17'6" 26'3" 35' 43'9" lengths max dia.28" min. top is 10" no more than 3 knots in a 1 foot section
no more than 2 knots 4 in. or larger in a 1 foot section. No knot 6 in. or larger in entire log. $31.50 per ton.
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Offline Texas Ranger

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Re: Timber Prices
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2008, 09:34:08 pm »
Gate wood price?
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Offline timberfaller390

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Re: Timber Prices
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2008, 09:39:09 pm »
ply logs
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Offline WDH

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Re: Timber Prices
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2008, 12:10:56 am »
I hope that we are approaching the low point.  There is always a lag between the lumber market and the stumpage price.  The lumber market hit its low earlier this spring, and now the stumpage prices will hit the bottom late this summer or fall:).  In some places in the South, pine pulpwood is nipping at the heels of small logs (Chip-n-saw) in terms of stumpage value because the log prices have fallen so much, but that is definitely not the case in East Texas where pine pulpwood is at the lowest stumpage price that I have ever seen in my career.  Not the best of times to be selling timber.   
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Offline Sawyerfortyish

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Re: Timber Prices
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2008, 12:56:22 pm »
Do any of you guys see a pickup in home sales soon or new housing? If you have to answer No then don't expect the lumber market to go up. I don't think things has hit bottom yet. I hope I'm wrong!

Offline Sawyerfortyish

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Re: Timber Prices
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2008, 01:01:42 pm »
Just to add a little were a low grade mill. I can't touch low grade hardwood logs right now. There worth 3 times more as firewood than as lowgrade logs. This is a scary winter comming.

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Timber Prices
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2008, 08:16:08 pm »
There are some logs that are just too ugly to put on a processor.  So, I end up sawing them. 

Have we hit bottom?  No way.  I heard the other day that there is a 2 year supply of new homes.  Add to that all the additional homes that are facing foreclosure.  And, all those homeowners, now renters, that have lost their homes are out of the housing market for the foreseeable future.

Does that mean a bleak market?  Not necessarily.  We're still moving lumber, but the prices have taken a hit.  The market isn't oversupplied since a lot of mills have gone out of business.  We're just doing cleanup.

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Offline Ed_K

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Re: Timber Prices
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2008, 08:26:33 pm »
 Allard Lumber just over the line in VT has gone up on r.oak but everything else is holding at spring prices. I went up on log length firewood but I still take the straight sticks down to 8" sed for pallet logs as I can get $190.mbf . I'm banking on firewood pulling me thru this winter tho. I have a lot of w.pine to cut but no market yet >:( .
Ed K

Offline timberfaller390

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Re: Timber Prices
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2008, 09:46:39 pm »
houseing in my neck of the woods has hit bottom with no hope of coming up anytime soon. I can't tell you how many subdivisions have been litterally thrown together here in the past couple of years, and most have a bunch of houses that were never sold and about the same amount that are for sale by owner or in forclosure. It's going to get worse before it gets better but on the up side gas dropped 20 cents the last 2 days. It's at $3.69 this morning from $3.89
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Offline WDH

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Re: Timber Prices
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2008, 11:18:05 pm »
Have we hit bottom?  No way. 

I hope that pine lumber prices have stabilized on the low end.  They cannot fall a whole lot more or the mills will simply shut down and cease to operate.  In my company, we have taken a significant amount of downtime in the pine mills.  Demand is down, but so is supply due to production curtailments.
Woodmizer LT15, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Timber Prices
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2008, 06:00:37 am »
I was referring more about the housing market.  Timber prices can only slide so far since you get to a point where landowners just won't sell.

Our pine markets have always been low.  During good time, $100/Mbf was the standard price.   
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Offline Sawyerfortyish

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Re: Timber Prices
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2008, 07:18:05 am »
Just finished a job had 45000' of hemlock. We bought it at 80.00/mbf. Nicest hemlock I've cut in a long time trees averaged 350' each Doyl . Probably could have bought it cheaper there was nobody else interested.

Offline WDH

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Re: Timber Prices
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2008, 08:31:03 pm »
Really bad news (more bad news) about the housing crisis on the national news tonight.  Foreclosures are up over 125% over the same time a year ago.  Some banks are failing.  Many people are struggling to make ends meet.  Our economy is headed for much worse times I fear. 

The timber business (growing, harvesting, manufacturing) is suffering from the huge swing in demand and competition abroad.  Rough times ahead.
Woodmizer LT15, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Offline Cedarman

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Re: Timber Prices
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2008, 07:35:52 am »
Housing starts are as low as in the early 90's.  But people made good money in the 70's, 80's  with fewer housing starts than in todays market.  The problem as I see it is too many loggers, too many mills.  There has always been a huge amount of trees to log.  Timber has never been all that scarce.  Production increased to fill the expanding need in the late 90's and the 00's.  Logging and milling will contract until there is a balance again.  There are simply too many 2x4's and pieces of flooring out there.   The pain of contraction is real. Loggers and sawmills will go bust.  The people in these businesses will go bust if they can't ride it out. 

My great fear is that too many people are charging way too much on their credit cards and that debt is going to haunt us.  Government debt is going to get us one day also.  If I knew when and how, I would write a book.

I believe we need to be conservative in our spending.  The opposite of what the governement wants us to be.  If we cut our spending by 1/4, what would happen to our economy.  WDH, I understand your fear.
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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Timber Prices
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2008, 07:40:22 am »
I heard a guy on the radio say that if you are producing something or selling something, then times really aren't that bad.  Pallet stock is moving at the same price as last year, so I have to believe the demand is still there to put things on pallets.

The areas that are hurting are mainly in the financial sector.  That all comes from the subprime mess.  And, that is the area that effects the housing market.  

The other area that is hurting is automotive sales.  That was more from a lack of good management and trying to push things on the American consumer that they just won't buy.  The higher prices for oil just put things over the edge for them.  

We were sending logs over to Asia, but they tried to slash our price.  We're still exporting some veneer.  I'm just curious if any of those southern ports are hauling any pine logs out.  There's a housing boom in Asia, and they're going to need the resources.  India and China don't have the resources to support their coming middle class.  India is projected to have a middle class of about 530 million people by 2020.  They're not going to live in shacks.  Seems like someone should be doing some marketing.
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Offline Kansas

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Re: Timber Prices
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2008, 01:18:23 pm »
Seems like pallet wood prices are indeed about the same as last year, and its easy to move. Problem is, costs have gone up significantly to log, haul, and process in the last year. Its harder for me to gauge pallet cutstock price because we are rather isolated out here, and it appears from some smaller mill closures in the area, we are about to become more isolated. I have begun to raise prices on pallet lumber, especially on new customers and new sizes of boards that old customers call about to get quotes on. So far, no one seems to be turning us down.
For those that have been in the pallet lumber business far longer than me, I am curious. What was the price of pallet lumber 5, 10, 20 years ago compared to what you are getting now.

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Timber Prices
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2008, 03:11:19 pm »
I don't know about pallet cut stock, but for cants I've seen the fluctuation of between $280-380/Mbf for the past 20 years.  $280 was last seen during the early 1990s when there was a glut of material.  RR tie demand in the past 10 years has kept a lot of pallet material off the market. 
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Offline Ed_K

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Re: Timber Prices
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2008, 09:00:57 pm »
 The pallet mill I sell to is offering .32 bf for pallet cants.
Ed K

Offline Ed_K

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Re: Timber Prices
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2008, 08:22:26 pm »
 The pallet mill called this morning to say their raising the price paid for pallet logs another $20. just crying for logs, everyone is cutting firewood.
Ed K