Replacing 038 mag with 441 or 460?

[Mike PA]

I am new to this forum, but it seems as though people are fairly friendly, so I am hoping for a bit of advice.

I cut for firewood to heat my house, but I cut more than the average guy who cuts firewood (I also clear land/ roads on a limited basis).    I have been very happy with the 038 mag, but it appears to be time to replace it.  I am going to stick with Stihl, as I am happy with the performance and I have a good local dealer/ shop and the 038 has been a great saw.  I am considering three saws, the 361, 441, and 460.  I am not a logger, but I do cut some large trees (24"-36"), mostly oak, hickory, and maple.  I think the 361, while a great saw by all accounts, is smaller than I want (there have been times when the 038 mag would be slow on some big wood), so mostly I am thinking the 441 and 460.  What does everyone think?  Which is better?  Either should have enough power (I have never needed more than a 20" bar).  Any help would be appreciated.

[Cut4fun]

If you haven't noticed yet there has  been alot of barely used 441's on the market lately. I would skip it and go straight to the 460 if it has to be a stihl in the cc size.
A friend of mine bought a 441 to replace a 044, I ran it some and was unimpressed. He and his dad ran it on the tree farm for a few months as a stock saw and as a woods ported saw with another cylinder and piston. They later put the stock set up back on and sold it. Neither one was very happy with the power of it and the people that go on about how much power the 441 has IMO hasn't ran a good saw or just trying to tell themselves they didn't waste close to $800 on a inferior saw  . JMO.

[Reddog]

Mike,
First Welcome.
Here is a link to my comments in another thread about the 441.
In a nut shell I like it.

Wally

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,29563.msg425680.html#msg425680

[Al_Smith]

Replacing an 038 Mag is big shoes to fill .Most likely one of the better firewood size saws Stihl ever made .

You can tweek that old duffer and it will hang right in there with an 80 cc stock saw .There are still plenty of parts available for those things .Fact is I worked on two within in the last two days .One was mine another for a customer .Both cut great but mine has had a tad bit of enhancement .

Most likely a 460 would be the ticket if you want some grunt .After that ,refurbish the 38 Mag,you won't regret it ,money well spent .

[Maineloggerkid]

I ran a 441 once, and it seemed that it was very long. IT felt like my arms were 3 feet apart. Power wise, my 372 will keep right up or beat it. Im buying a Stihl 460 sometime in the next 2 weeks, so I will report on it.

[Mike PA]

Thanks everyone.  My inclination has been the 460, but a lot of reviews I have read are pretty high on the 441, which was making me reconsider. 

Wally - I appreciate your comments.  I have to think that, for me, the 441 would have enough power.  The improved AV would nice. 


Al - I am really considering tearing the 038 apart and rebuilding it.  I have not identified the problem yet. There is scoring in the cylinder but it has been there for a while, so I think the problem I am having now is because air is leaking in elsewhere or a combination problems.  I did check the compression, it gets up to 122 psi after 8-10 pulls.  Hopefully I'll have some time tonight to look at it some more.

[Al_Smith]

 You most likely can do a light hone and a rering and get most of the comp back .Rebuild the Bing carb and replace the clutch side seal while you are at it . These things are pretty tough saws .

One that I worked on a few days ago at one time had a grenaded piston ,didn't hurt the cylinder a bit . I rebuilt it several years ago,new piston ,bearings , seals etc . It did blow a seal after a few years for some unknown reason but that thing has seen over 15 years of service in use for a tree service compnay .Much more severe than most people would subject it to .They actually prefer this old saw to a more modern Ms 440 .

It leaks a little lube oil but I suppose I might too if I'd have been ran hard and put away wet as many times  as that thing has  been .

[Mad Professor]

I'd rebuild the 038.  Might just need rings and seals/impulse and fuel lines/carb rebuild.  If you need a cyl look on ebay for a good OEM used or new.  Tecomec also makes a quality replacement cyl assy at ca. 1/2 price of OEM.

I've recently rebuilt two 038. I ebayed a new OEM cyl assy for $180 and a tecomec for $100.  Add in $14 for a gasket/seal kit and another ca. $30 for carb kit and hoses.  Both saws runs as good/better than new now (a little muffler/port work).

Don't forget a new air filter (ca. $25) if you put the $ into a rebuild. 

[Mike PA]

I am rebuilding it.  Have the parts on order, should come in today.  The cylinder looked ok, just did a little honing.  I am getting crank seals, gaskets, rings, and impulse line.  After that is done, I'll see how (if?) it runs, and will look at the carb rebuild then.  I expected to find more wrong with it when I opened it up, so I am hopeful that this will take care of it and relatively cheaply.

I don't know anything about porting the muffler, so I won't be doing that.  I am just hoping to get it back into operating condition.  I am looking forward to getting the parts and putting it all back together.  For a saw that is over 20 years old, it has been very good.  This is the first time I've had to do any real work to it, except it got run over and the handle broke.

I have my fingers crossed that it will run again, as I am not looking forward to the cost of a new saw, even though I do want one.

[Good Feller]

Last year when I started looking for a bigger saw I went through the same dilemma between the 441 and the 460.  I'm glad I went with the 460 (I probably should have got the 660). 
When you are talking about buying a $750 dollar saw why not just spend another $100 or so and go first class?  PLUS,,, the 441 weighs just as much if not more than the 460 and has less power!  What's the point in getting the 441?  The dealer tried telling me how the 441 runs cleaner and blah blah blah....  Yeah whatever.  I think the 441 is a gimmick. 
I wouldn't want to cut any 24-36" trees with anything smaller than a 460 personally.  With the 460 you'll always have the option of putting on a longer bar and the saw should pull it easier than what the 441 would.    Go big or go home! (that was my wife's advice when I was saw shopping)

[Al_Smith]

.

I don't know anything about porting the muffler, so I won't be doing that.  I am just hoping to get it back into operating condition.  
I have my fingers crossed that it will run again, as I am not looking forward to the cost of a new saw, even though I do want one.

You won't have any problems.If you do speak up we all had to learn at some time or another .

[Old_Hickory]

i had a 441 and sold it,and got 372 xp  the 372 willoutcut it hands down plus is lighter

[liketocut]

One thing about the 460, for about $35 you can buy a 440 dual port
muffler cover from Stihl. Have read it will gain about 10% HP.
I have the Stihl DP cover's on 460, 440, 066 and 660.
After installing DP cover you will need to richen carb setting's or
saw will run to lean.

[Al_Smith]

 --or for twenty minutes of work you can make your own dual port .

[liketocut]

--or for twenty minutes of work you can make your own dual port .

Yup.............That's what I done to MS260, MS361 and 064

[isawlogs]

 Be nice if you would put a step by step process of making of dual port .
 I couple of pikchures would be apreciated too 

[zackman1801]

after really looking over an MS441 ( i didnt run it though) i can safely say there is no reason i would ever buy one. (unless it was incredibly cheap) its just simply, too big, too heavy, and underpowered for its size. my Ms460 is smaller and lighter, probably because of a shorter bar, but still why buy a heavier bigger saw that has less power, when you can get a far superior saw like the 460.  i just dont understand what stihl was thinking when they made the 441, its a shame really.

[Cut4fun]

 Be nice if you would put a step by step process of making of dual port .
 I couple of pikchures would be apreciated too 

Every muffler out there seems to have a step by step muffler mod already posted elsewhere. Just use the yahoo or google search function for the saw you want and muffler mod or just muffler mod.

[Maineloggerkid]

The 441 and 460 actually have the same dry weight, but the 460 has more power.

[Al_Smith]

 Be nice if you would put a step by step process of making of dual port .
 I couple of pikchures would be apreciated too 

There isn't much to it really . There must be a zillion articles about same on the net .

As far as posting pictures ,I'm not smart enough to do so on this site ,Lord knows I've tried though . Fact is at the moment I've got a little glitch in my danged 'puter and can't post them any where for some reason or another .

[Cut4fun]

As far as posting pictures ,I'm not smart enough to do so on this site ,Lord knows I've tried though . [/quote]

Exactly why I dont post pics or take the time to do the miniature size resizing this site requires, its a real pita imho to have to host them here first.
If someone wants a pic I usually tell them to look at it elsewhere where it is posted alot easier.