Cutting hollow trees

[Good Feller]

I haven't had much experience cutting down hollow trees.  What is the best approach?  Is there any difference between cutting down "live" hollow trees and "dead" ones?  Thanks

[zackman1801]

you have to be carefull of dead ones because you cant leave any holding wood if you bore cut , because it might not be sturdy. also wedges arent a good idea especially if the tree is really dead because you could break the top right off.

[Maineloggerkid]

IT depends how dead they are. IF they are still sturdy, I cut them like a normal tree, if the are like jello, I find the lean and let them go the way they want to. Widow makers aren't anything to mess with.-Be safe when cutting.

[Kevin]

Dead trees are most dangerous.
There can be problems with the holding wood, overhead branches and tops breaking out.
I've pulled them and cut them.
If the tops hit anything they can easily break off and come right back at you.



Live hollow trees can be cut with a shallow face usually.

[Phorester]

Most of my tree cutting is confined to forest fires.  Naturally, we cut a lot of dead and half dead trees since they're also burning, might burn, or did burn and might again.  But......, we "cut" them with a bulldozer whenever possible.  Point being that they are dangerous, burning or not, and we don't stick a chainsaw into them if we can get them down with heavy equipment.

[Rick Alger]

I agree with the advice above. Shallow face, shortish   back cut, and  a machine with a cage to push it over.

Lacking a machine I knock down  the dead ones  with a live one -  from a fair distance away.

[rebocardo]

On many trees, especially hollow ones, I wrap the trunk with chain above where I am cutting. If possible I get a cable up into it and shake the tree if dead to remove any widow makers and if the top is coming down, I want it down before I start cutting.

Middle of the woods, I would wrap it in chain if possible, cut with the lean with a shallow face cut, and cut the back cut as quick as possible before gravity takes effect. Then get back and give it a minute or two to fall.

I tend to cut high on hollow trees because less rot the higher you get and I do not want to be bent over with my head near the trunk and want to be able to run easily. Plus, I do not walk around the tree, I try to get my face cut from the same side of the tree as the back cut. One it is much faster. Walking takes time and standing directly behind a hollow tree that might barber chair or come apart enough to jump the stump is something I avoid.  Cutting your notch from the same side as the back cut, since you are cutting with the top of our bar, is not for everyone ...

The worse thing, imho, about hollow trees is when it sits on your saw while doing the notch.

[Good Feller]

So shallow face cut.  Then what?  Bore cut to the back OR cut from the back towards the hinge,,, does it matter?  I've cut down lot's of trees but none that were very hollow.... just want to do it safely when I come across this situation. 

[Kevin]

There's usually nothing to bore on a hollow tree, the middle is already gone although there's no rule that says you can't bore to set up the hinge wood.
On rotten trees there isn't any fiber that's strong enough to split out so that wouldn't be any concern either but each tree is different and every precaution should be taken to control the fall of the tree and staying safe when doing so.

[Bro. Noble]

Why would you want to cut a hollow tree,  unless close to your house or other buildings?  When we are cutting logs and I hit a hollow space while notching a tree,  I move on to the next tree unless I feel the hollow one is an immediate hazard.  If I drop it,  it's using time that doesn't earn anything,  it's often risky,  and it will do just as much damage to surrounding young timber as a good tree.  If left (preferably girdled)  the limbs will drop straight down when they fall and do little damage to surrounding trees.  The hollow tree provides habitat for wildlife and is no competition to surrounding trees if it is dead.

I know this isn't an answer to the question that was asked.  There have been good answers on how to take the trees down,  I just thought that leaving the tree should be considered where possible.

[Ron Scott]

Yes, they provide den, snag, and cavity trees for wildlife. Note the "Animal Inn" thread.

[Tom]

They make a good drum for talking to your neighbors in the next village too. 

[Bro. Noble]

Well,  Tom,  that's really a moot point------unless you are on thumping terms with your neighbors in the next village.

[Engineer]

Sometimes you don't know they're hollow until you're into them.  I dropped a large white birch that was standing dead, and only until I notched it did I realize that it was hollow and I wouldn't get a good hinge (and it was leaning too, but in the direction of the notch).  I bore-cut each side to the back, and then cut the holding wood last.  It dropped clean, but could have easily shifted off the stump and dropped as much as 90 degrees to the notch.

Very dangerous to cut hollow trees, they are best left alone unless you NEED to take them down.

[Tom]

The reason I would take one down would be for safety.  Some of them have too little good wood to leave them stand.  Since you never know when a wind might come along and send it to the ground, you might be under it at that time and get squashed.

Br'er Noble!   I'm on thumping terms with a lot of them.  As a matter of fact, I know a thumper up there in the middle of Michigan.

[rebocardo]

Myself, I would avoid bore cutting a hollow tree. Things can fall on the saw from the middle of the tree such as the punky middle. With 500+ pounds jammed on your bar about the only thing you can do is remove the saw head. Plus, things animals have deposited into the hollow can fall or you can hit it with the saw and dull the chain, you can cover yourself in wet smelly punk, a sheet of bark can fall from the outside of the tree onto the saw, the tree can simply split into many parts like a barber chair, etc.

 MSOP is to use enough back cut until I see movement or hear a crack then wait for it to fall from a safe distance OR to cut the back cut extremely fast to where I think it should make it fall and then move quickly before it comes down completely.

imho, The most dangerous part are dead branches or the top splitting at a upper crotch and coming down and killing you. I cut a pine tree that was dead and leaning, not even hollow, and when it started to fall, it broke into pieces. The two separate good long pieces came straight down and basically fell either straight down or backwards while the trunk went were it should.

Could have easily killed me if I had not gotten out of Dodge and had stood around looking at the tree, doing a fancy bore cut, pounding wedges, etc.

I would say on dead or hollow trees, cut them which ever way you feel best doing them, but, when that hollow tree starts to fall, make sure you are far away, behind a hardwood if possible.

From my gallary

"barberchair saved by wrapping chain around trunk"



This counts as a true hollow tree

"part of a tree that barberchaired and was saved by wrapping with chains and cables. This part was wrapped with 1/4 cable."

I do not know if I could call it a "barberchair", more like crumble or split apart.   

[zackman1801]

sometimes if the trees have been dead and standing for awhile they get hard, at this stage they make decent firewood. and if your luck when it hits the ground i will split itself. although if you have a choice stay away from them or if you can knock em over with a skidder or tractor, that is if they are small enough.

[tomtrees]

If they are realy rotten they can just collapse as soon as you put the saw in "not nice". The other thing is that they often dont go in the direction you want. Being a tree surgeon I some times get take downs like this. I either put a big price on the job hoping that some one else will go in lower or forget to quote.

[Kevin]

This red oak got the bore cut to set up the hinge.

[rebocardo]

Nice looking tree 

[Kevin]

ARE YOU MAKING FUN OF MY TREE?   

                                             

[Ed_K]

 We lost an old patriarch of the town of Leyden this spring due to cutting a dead pine in his maple orchard. I've had 2 close ones with dropping limbs. I vote to leave them. or I  use the skidder to just pull them over. Besides most times you bore into them,your going to get wet with some real nasty water  .

[rebocardo]

ARE YOU MAKING FUN OF MY TREE?   

                                             

Not at all, I bet the lumber was clear on all four sides.
 

[RSteiner]

Some times you don't find out that a tree is hollow until you cut into it, at least that was my experience with an oak that was around 26" DBH.  It was a tree right on the edge of a pond that beavers had chewed the bark off around the bottom enough to kill the tree.
The land owner asked me to drop the tree in the winter on the ice as not to damage other trees around it. 

When making the face cut I found out quickly that there was only a 3" to 4" shell of fairly solid wood around the outer edge of the tree.  Being the tree was bigger in diameter than my gbar length doing a bore cut and leaving a little holding wood in the back seemed like the only safe option.  Once I released theholding wood I was able to move quickly along my escape route and the tree fell where I expected it to on the ice. 

The ice was 18" think in that spot but a couple of branches punched their way through the ice.  Sure does make a thunderous sound when a dead tree lands on the ice.  Some times you don't know if a tree is hollow or not until you cut into it.  I don't think I would have done anything different had I known first.  Hollow trees can twist and do a lot of crazy things, they are dangerous but some times they have to come down.

Randy