ALGAE POWER? No,... it's not a joke either!

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

FlaD started a thread months ago, but here is  a new take on it.

Think about this quote from a test report from Dec. 2007:


"During a 90 day continual production test, algae was being harvested at an average of one gram (dry weight) per liter. This equates to algae bio mass production of 276 tons of algae per acre per year. Achieving the same biomass production rate with an algal species having 50% lipids (oil) content would therefore deliver approximately 33,000 gallons of algae oil per acre per year."

I would like to pose a question or a few:

• First, with ethanol being very pricey, regardless of the source, why have we heard
            little of this "rest of the story?"  [Where is Paul Harvey's replacement?]
  
• Compared to many other efforts, this process is relatively simple and hazard free,
            so why are we still trying to bust a gut, if you will, in other directions?
  
• Considering how mature this technology is ALREADY,  why are billions of dollars
             headed elsewhere?
  
• If this dried algae-oil were pulverized in a solution of other oils and suspended by
            ultrasonics, it could probably be burned outright by conventional boilers, with
            no complex refining required (my opinion),  so why not push it?
  
• Last of all, in light of this and in light of what the thread on ethanol has revealed,
           does our government have a brain amongst 'em?
  

                                               
                 

[fstedy]

You've hit the nail on the head Phil. This is the kind of thinking we need in Washington. But I think the general population is being ignored in favor of special interests and lobbing efforts. We need somehow to get the attention of our elected officials and remind them who elected them.

[Bill]

Well - to be fair about algae ( not that the oil companies aren't figuring out ways to blast it anyways ) there are still questions like the cost of building a "greenhouse", the cost( location ) for all the water, etc. However, that being said here's one of the most * encouraging * article I've seen about algae.


http://www.biodieselnow.com/forums/t/20635.aspx


There's another one floating around about some trying it for jet fuel - interesting .

So maybe if they would promote something like this we'd have some answers rather than shortages. My thought really is that big oil won't like it and it'll have enough problems to ramp up to large scale.  I really think the best bet would be to keep big oil ( natl and foreign, opec and all ) out of it - I think they don't have any competition so why not let the little guy ( and his coops ) be the competition ( I think DanG's model in the ethanol thread is a great start ). 


"The use of vegetable oils for engine fuels may seem insignificant today. But such oils may become in the course of time as important as the petroleum and coal tar products of the present time." - Rudolph Diesel, 1912

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Bill
You mention "ramping up to large scale."  Considering the ideas of small companies,
of co-ops, and DanGville operations,  perhaps scale could remain fairly small.

More thoughts on this, but, frankly I want to keep them close right now.

[Ron Wenrich]

I think you guys are missing part of the big picture.  The big picture is that whatever type of fuel is going to be introduced, it has to be by big business.  Why?  Because government can control a few producers, especially when it comes to collecting taxes.  

If we had a bunch of individuals producing energy, whether its solar, wind, hydrogen or ethanol, there's too much of a chance that the government loses control.  Big business will also lose control, and that means all those subsidies will be gone.  

Ethanol is a very easy product to make at home.  Lots of distillers have found that out.  Biodiesel is also easy to produce.  If we had .1% of the households making their own fuel, that would be about 100,000 households that would need to be monitored and taxes collected.  

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

So true, Ron.  Here is an opinion:
               The strong connection between legislators and lobbying interests has become stronger than
                   the link which our congressmen and senators have with real investigation and common sense.

Ah, the "land of the free and the home of the brave!"  As some (DanG and FlaD, for starters)
have pointed out on some of the alternative energy threads which somehow stayed on the
General Board, the American people simply need to be allowed to solve the problem-   
another good reason to like alternative energy. It appears that, by lack of common sense and 
investigation, or by deliberate premeditation, the present government policy is pursuing the wrong 
remedy and pursuing it, as Dang may agree, at the wrong scale.  Neither is likely to change.

Those tax guys, DO, however, seem to be able find my modest household quite well, and able to
assess penalties, when they are miffed, with no problem whatsoever.

Here is an interesting quote from our Thirty-Third President. 
Notice the last sentence in particular.

“The basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings we get from Exodus and St. Matthew, from Isaiah and St. Paul. I don't think we emphasize that enough these days. If we don't have a proper fundamental moral background, we will finally end up with a...government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the State!” Harry S. Truman

[Woodcarver]

Not much algae grown in early primary states.........

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Ron's figure about 100,000 households making their own fuel,
MIGHT be a little shy, already. 

  Y'all would be AMAZED how many guys are "flying under the radar", RAT NOW. 

  Just wait a little while longer, and watch this water fuel thing shut down MANY Crude Oil stations. 

  I  know NOTHING. NOTHING 

  Oh yeah, Algae. Does anyone know what Algae sells for as Oil. 

  I know Nothing, NOTHING

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

FlaD

When I dug deep, it turned out that the real costs for ethanol on a big
scale had been carefully considered ten years ago, showing the problems of cost and
energy output, compared to oil.  It may be that someone has already
put some figures to the algae deal.  So far, these activities have been
mostly venture capital.  They don't tend to share as much free info. I am
sure a paying partner could get the low-down.  You gotta couple hundred thou
I could borrow and get in early on this?

I am not saying that some university profs haven't been working on it,
but the ones I have found doing it on a practical scale are private business.

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Over on the Biodiesel now website, there used to be a guy from Tenn., growing Algae and harvesting it. Used to be a friendly guy, until some smarta$$es got to picking on him. Don't know if he still hangs out there or not   He built a swimming pool type rig and covered it for rain protection. Made a decent amout of Oil from the dried Algae.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

FlaD

Actually a site I found from your thread seems to be one step ahead:
http://www.valcent.net/s/Home.asp

Of course, to really impress the lady of the house, or that future gal,
you must join this:
http://www.nationalalgaeassociation.com/

Seriously, the biodiesel site is full of information, but you can tell from
the sponsor names that all the big players support this National Algae Association.
Valcent, with their Vertigro system and specific algae species patents seems to be
promising.  There is at least one other company using a tube-based growth system,
Diversified Energy Corporation. Their system requires many acres of land, while
Vertigro requires greenhouses.  Both need a source of waste CO² to be
feasible.

[Fla._Deadheader]

 
  Ecogenics Research Center

  Sevierville, Tenn.

  Marc Cardoso

  Maybe someone that lives near this location can do a little legwork

[Bill]

Bill
You mention "ramping up to large scale."  Considering the ideas of small companies,
of co-ops, and DanGville operations,  perhaps scale could remain fairly small.

More thoughts on this, but, frankly I want to keep them close right now.

Now I'm rite fond of DanGville operations. I was kinda thinkin of the "victory gardens" of wwii - just a wee bit before my time. So if we could use Yankee ingenuity then and it worked - why tie biodiesel to big oil - let us little guys do it - maybe even tax free for personal use - like your own vegetable garden - for your car/truck. Helps many folks get by like it did in wwii.

Now about ramping up - I'm thinking there should be some real competition for big oil ( be it natl or foreign ) . IMHO oil ( and natl gas ) has little to no "major" competition on a large scale ( ie electric is supposed to generated 75% by fossil fuel whereas hydro, solar, wind, nuclear together add up to no more than 25% - plus fossil fuel gets cars/trucks )  . I'd like to see that change .

I would like to pull into a coop in DanGville and fill up with biodiesel       soon .

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

That would be good.

A friend here got hooked into an ethanol system of some sort.
The last I heard of it he said that they were making about 15%
of the production that the designer had promised.  He and a few
locals have put their money where their mouths are, as they say.
They have to be commended for the effort, and I hope they get the kinks out.

I think the financing of an algae operation would definitely be far
beyond the level of investment they made.  Even so, as you say,
the combined effort of many locals would be a real competitive force
against the Big Boys of Oil.  They might even be forced to change their
greedy ways, even if it were only for the sake of trying to "starve out"
fledgling competition.  That should be expected, but it would be tough to
do to hundreds of start-ups at one time.

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Open ponds are a good way to grow Algae, in Arizona or So Cal. Down here, possibly. It takes warm water year-round, not freezing water.

  I got too many projects now. 

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

The simplest way is in ponds.  That is very true, FlaD.

Been doin' some research:
 
On the other hand, only the top inch really supports full-tilt growth
which you must have.  You normally want to grow a mono-culture
of algae for your end-product, also.  A pond has a broad mix of algae
species, but unfortunately includes bacteria and viruses which attack the "crop."
Most recent experimentation, whether salt water or fresh water based, has tended
toward mono-culturing.

P.S.   I still have few dollar figures.  Too much of this stuff has
         stayed in the quasi-lab environment.  Each researcher/developer
         seems to have kept it that way in order to be sure of their patent
         rights.  Now it's time for somebody to "put-up or shut-up."  No
         single person has the entire package from what I have seen, but
         all the Big Oil Boys have their projects going, too.

 

[Ron Wenrich]

Since you've brought this up, I've been doing some reading as well.  It seems to be a lot better method of getting fuel than the other methods I've seen.  The sheer volume of material that can be grown on a small area of land is incredible.  15,000 sq miles would be enough to fuel all the US.  Depending on the type of algae, you can also get biodiesel and jet fuel. 

I don't think you can grow this stuff in places like Arizona or Southern California.  The evaporation from open aired ponds would make it pretty bad.  However, there are other ways to go about it.  Greenhouses can be used in the cooler areas.

I've seen several types that were grown in clear plastic tubes.  I have seen them called bioreactors.  The one company was talking about using this in line with scrubbers.  The algae needs CO2, which would come from industrial exhaust.  This brings down CO2 emissions.  I would also assume there would be some tramp heat there as well.  That helps to keep it at growing in cooler climates.

As for water, someone proposed using waste water from treatment plants. 

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

It seems to be the only competition with Thermal Depolymerization -
a process which is already in use in completely functional facilities in Philadelphia
and in Carthage, MO.  Selling product two years ago at a rate of 250,000 gallons
of bio-diesel per month.

...but that would be another thread.

[StorminN]

About six years ago when I first got into the biodiesel thing, I heard about an experimental setup down in Baker, CA (could be Zzyzx Springs?) where they had a coal-fired power plant. I was told they were scrubbing the exhaust of the power plant through shallow man-made ponds, and purposely growing algae in the ponds. They would then harvest the algae and separate the oil through some closed-loop xylol process, distill off the xylol and keep the oil for making biodiesel. Has anyone read about this project?

-Norm.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

So the xylol dissolves the lipids?

[StorminN]

Phil,

I don't know the chemistry behind it, but somehow the Xylol breaks down the algae... but yeah... if I were to guess, the lipids go into solution and then when you distill off the Xylol, you're left with the lipids. At the time (six years ago) fryer grease was plentiful around here, petro diesel was maybe $2 a gallon, and once I heard the word Xylol, (nasty stuff) I have to admit, I didn't listen that much longer... now I sorta wish I had...

-Norm.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

It does seem that algae production will depend on a partner operation
which produces carbon dioxide.  Considering the tiny amount of that
gas which is in our air,  it really won't take that much to give algae a
drastic boost.

I am not familiar with that particular project.  It seems like the most
advanced processes for any given part of the algae story seem to be
widely distributed - being developed by separate researcher/entrepreneurs.

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Found it. !!!

  link

[OneWithWood]

I have heard and read about a number of companies chasing after the holy grail of bio diesel derived from algae.  To date no one has produced a single gallon that I am aware of.  In the bio diesel world there is a standing cash reward for a quart of biodiesel made from algae.  There have been no takers.
It would be great if the technology pans out but it appears to be a ways off.

[DanG]

In the link that FDH posted, there is a photo of a beaker of liquid that is stated to be bio-diesel from algae.

[Fla._Deadheader]

 I visited that website, last night, and, I gotta tell ya, it AIN'T the same operation that it was a year ago. He had photos of the Algae Pool and lots of info. Now, looks like a public begging website

  The guy went through a fire and some espionage, and might have thrown in the towel, for educating people. If ANYONE could go by the place and visit in person, it MIGHT give us some better outlook.  This is the place that I read Algae was bringing $10.00 + a POUND, dried.    It's used in Cosmetics and other applications.

  A lot of different varieties of Algae will NOT make BioDiesel. The oil is more of a hydrocarbon structure, or just plain low yield of normal strains.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Yeah, FlaD

It looks like they are more into retreats and educational efforts,
than the actual perfection of practical systems:  "Ya'll pay us to
come learn about this, and maybe YOU can do something with it."

On the other hand, it is good to see the combination efforts:  Algae/veggies/fish - all in the same system.
The combination might not create feasible means to produce any one of the three in an efficient way,
but it sounds so... GREEN, huh?

[StorminN]

Has someone posted this already?

Algae based fuels

-Norm.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

StorminN

Took a look:

Quote:

                             "In 1982 it was estimated by Benemann [with NREL?] that the cost of production for a barrel
                          of algal biodiesel was, on average $94...." [calculating a cost from that figure they made this
                          assumption:]  "That would equate to $46.2 billion per year for all the algae farms, to yield all
                          the oil feedstock necessary for the entire country....  Scientists at NREL think that theses new
                          fuels will become competitive by 2010."
SOURCE:   http://www.greenfuelonline.com/gf_files/algaefuel.pdf

Notice that the $94 figure was for the end-result refined biodiesel (just over $3 per gallon)
based upon fairly rudimentary methods in use back then.  This is the first time I have seen
cost analysis of the concept.  Even if we multiply the $46 billion by a factor of ten, that is
still $200 billion less than we are currently sending out of the U.S. for crude oil!
The Nation Renewable Energy Laboratory is restarting their research on
algae biodiesel.  'Bout time!

From what I have studied so far, the scale and facilities for algae biodiesel would be very
capital intensive.  On the other hand, the methods are not as complex as those for coal gasification
or thermal depolymerization.  Neither are the processes for algal oil refining as hazardous.

As long as oil is above $100 a barrel every one of these methods mentioned above is a money maker
and would keep our US dollars HERE!

[StorminN]

Phil,

That Valcent company linked to at the beginning of this thread has offices in Vancouver, BC. I happen to be driving to Vancouver tonight... maybe I'll swing by there if I have time. I wonder if Valcent has anything to do with the 100's of acres of greenhouses just south of Vancouver, where they grow all those "BC Hothouse" tomatoes?

Now for some more math... if an acre of corn can grow 18 gallons of oil, and an acre of algae ponds (never mind the VertiGro system) will grow 20,000 gallons of oil, then you'd have to be growing 1,111 acres of corn to equal the production from one acre of algae. It seems to me an acre pond is not as much capital expense, compared to 1,111 acres of land. And have we seen a figure on how much algae can be grown in one acre of these hothouses? It could very well be twice what an open pond yeilds... let's assume it is... in which case it would take 2,200 acres of corn to equal its production. I think I'd rather tend the one acre greenhouse.

I'll need to read up on this some more...

-Norm.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

It would be interesting to see some cost analysis from such a large greenhouse complex.

[Ron Wenrich]

 A low cost system is being speculated at $45-60K/acre.  The yield is expected in the 100-200 dry tons/acre range.  Feedstock costs would be 8-12¢/lb while the current costs are 25-44¢/lb.  Company name is Diversified Energy.

Current initial investments are $100k - $1m/acre. 

[StorminN]

A low cost system is being speculated at $45-60K/acre.  The yield is expected in the 100-200 dry tons/acre range.  Feedstock costs would be 8-12¢/lb while the current costs are 25-44¢/lb.  Company name is Diversified Energy.

Current initial investments are $100k - $1m/acre. 

... and how many gallons can you make per pound??

-Norm.

[StorminN]

OK, I looked into it a bit further... Valcent has an office here in Vancouver, BC... but their algae facility (greenhouses) are in El Paso, Texas... who on here lives in El Paso?

Valcent algae greenhouses in El Paso

-Norm.

[DanG]

Good link Norm!  Thanks.

They have an impressive facility.  That's pretty neat the way they're growing the algae in plastic bags.  It makes me wonder if you couldn't just lay the bags out in the sun and forgo all the expense of the greenhouse, though.  Of course, that is a research facility, and I'm sure that climate control is important to their findings, but an actual production facility might not require such an elaborate setup.

This new technology is fascinating, and the figures on production per acre are startling.  10,000 gallons per acre per year for algae, versus 68 gallons for soybeans makes a statement that is hard to even comment on!

I've had my own little micro-lab going for years now.  The water trough in my horse pasture is 2.5'x6'x1.5' and I have to scoop the algae out of it on a regular basis.  I have to let it dry up, then dig it out with a shovel.  I've been just throwing it out onto the ground, but I would probably get a wheelbarrow full per month if I saved it.

It seems that everytime I learn something new, I end up with more questions than answers.  For instance, they are growing specific kinds of algae in those "bio-reactors" to get the maximum fuel production.  So, how critical is it to maintain the purity of the crop?  Around here, all you gotta do is maintain some sort of a puddle and algae automatically starts growing in it.  I don't know if it's the right kind.  If it isn't, how would you keep the native kind from interfering with the exotic kind you wanted to grow in an open pond?  That is just one of the many questions that keep popping up in my mind among the ideas.

I guess the most basic question I have is, how do you extract oil from that stuff.  The dried algae doesn't seem oily at all, to me.  Would you just squeeze the oil out, or would ya have to cook it out?  If ya have to cook it, how much energy would it take to get a gallon of oil?  How much biodiesel would you get from a gallon of oil?

[Tom]

.........and, how much does five pounds of algae weigh?

[DanG]

Wet or dry?

Five pounds of wet algae, when it is dry, weighs about an ounce, while five pounds of dry algae, when it's wet, weighs about a ton.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

DanG

There are very specific species used to obtain the most "Algae Oil."  The problem with
the open pond idea is just what you have already suspected:  Contamination by the wrong
species is just like letting weeds go wild in a cultivated field.  The weeds naturally tend to
dominate and you get a crop other than what you need.  Also, in the pond, you have the
problem of virus and bacterial hindrances, just like you can have fungal and insect problems
in that example of the cultivated field.

The terrific yield figures are real, BUT they depend upon a carefully controlled monoculture
in what is called a "closed loop environment."  (You can spell that, "money required up front.")
The loop uses little water, is boosted with nutrients and CO2 (that nasty stuff we now fear), and
uses filtration to constantly harvest the green stuff.

There are specific fresh water, salt water, and waste water species which can yield 30% to
50% oil by weight.   In common language,  "thassalllottahgreazykidstuffin."  I think some of the
diatoms fall into the group of the salty ones.

We at the FF, of course, have our own salty one :  mono-tom  ... Just TOM.

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Sumbuddy needs to test some of that RED TIDE Algae, EH

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Isn't Red Tide a laundry detergent?

[DanG]

Yeah Phil, it was developed just so you could run yer grey water straight into yer Koi pond.

FDH, I sure hope that Red Tide doesn't end up to be the "holy grail" of biodiesel.  Boone Pickens and his ilk would render the seven seas a lifeless wasteland for a chance at all that money!  Meanwhile, it wouldn't hurt to scoop up all those dead fish and chunk'em into a methane digester.

[farmerdoug]

Don't forget to squeeze the oil out of the fish first.

[StorminN]

It would be interesting to see some cost analysis from such a large greenhouse complex.

Phil, I tried to get some pictures of the big greenhouses just south of Vancouver, BC while I was driving past them today... but I'm not a good photographer at 60mph, so I figured I'd just post a link to them in Google maps and let you guys look at them there. Check out the size of the cars in the parking lot of this one, and the tractor trailer on the highway just north of it, for scale. I believe they grow BC Hothouse tomatoes here. (and if these greenhouses are worth building for tomatoes, I bet they are worth building for algae oil!) This is just one set of greenhouses, there are big ones in the area... zoom out to see the others.

10,000 gallons per acre per year for algae, versus 68 gallons for soybeans makes a statement that is hard to even comment on!

Dan, the figures Glen Kertz states in the Valcent VertiGro video are:
corn - 18 gallons of oil per acre per year
palm trees - 700 to 800 gallons per acre per year
algae - 20,000 gallons per acre per year IN AN OPEN POND SYSTEM... he doesn't state how many gallons per acre he could yield with their vertical growing system, but I'm guessing it could be four times that or more, based on the square footage involved and the fact that the growing algae doesn't block sunlight for the other algae, like it does in the open pond system.

Here's the video again:
Valcent Vertigro algae video

How much biodiesel would you get from a gallon of oil?

Dan, if this oil is like the rest of the oils that people make biodiesel from, it's almost 1 to 1... 10 gallons of oil = 10 gallons of biodiesel. The most important question for me at this point is, what's the gelling temperature of biodiesel made from the best algae oil feedstock?

-Norm.

[Tom]

I think it's a communist plot. 

[Ron Wenrich]

I found these numbers on a website.  Under optimum conditions, algae will produce 4 lbs/sq ft which would yield 15,000 gallons.  I'm not sure if that is wet pounds or dry pounds. 

Converting that 4 lbs/sq ft, the yield is about 175,000 lbs/acre.  So the yield is 1 gallon to about 11 2/3 lb of algae.

The other thing I'm not certain is how much of the oil they expect to reclaim.  The reference made was that some algae was 60% fats, and that could be pressed with a 70% return. 

http://oakhavenpc.org/cultivating_algae.htm

[Don P]

Don't know if or how it relates but crude oil comes from algae. We call it dead dinosaurs but its really dead algae. It has to sit at about coffee temperature for a good long while to make. Pressure isn't that critical from my understanding, the temperature window is pretty critical and I know nothing about minimum time as most of it has been down there for millions of years. Geologists searching for places to drill are looking through the fossil record for particular colors relating to temperature, white is too cool, amber is just right, black was too hot. The Appalachians overshot the thermal window when we bumped into Africa and apparently carry the remains of what would be the equivalent of alot of scorched butter, carbon with the hydrogen and oxygen driven off. To quote the book I was reading tonight "natural gas is to petroleum what politicians are to statesmen".  The point was that anything organic that dies makes gas so its easy to get, it takes special conditions to make crude petro oil. Just an aside that probably only relates by the word algae  .

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

"natural gas is to petroleum what politicians are to statesmen". 

Don P
Are you trying to make us bust a gut laughing, or what?

An alternate explanation of the continental shelf sources is that the tremendous continental run-off
created the mega-dumps under those shelves. 
            In other words,...
                       World wide cataclysm involving bombardment by sections of a comet,
                                 tectonic troubles which release huge quantities of water
                                 from the crust of the earth, and terrific rain.  Commonly called "Noah's Flood."
                        Globe was demolished and flooded.  Jets of supercritical water killed quintillions
                                 of algae and other creatures creating oil and fossil beds.  Fossils, fossil graveyards, etc.
                                 and coal beds sorted by lensing effects, liquifaction effects.
                         Near the end of the event, tectonic action raised continents while ocean
                                 basins subsided and filled with the run-off.
                        Plant life buried by the trillions of tons in many different ways, suddenly.
                        Ice age sets in due to effect of cometary ice and volcanic activity.
                                Over the next few hundred years most of the ice melts back, the oceans
                                 rise, and the continental shelves are flooded over, along with the
                                 sunken cities found in many parts of present oceans.

We know that coal and oil can be man-made in just hours, so why do we believe that it takes millions of years?
                       

[Don P]

It was the authors light hearted way of saying it is easy to make natural gas but that it takes much more precise conditions to make oil.

 

I know nothing about minimum time

Simply the temperature of the algae for some, unknown to me, period of time.

If you know how to process algae to crude in hours I'm certainly listening 

Adding an O to natural gas makes a liquid fuel also.

I didn't intend to sidetrack us, carry on  .

[DanG]

To quote the book I was reading tonight "natural gas is to petroleum what politicians are to statesmen". 

    That's a great analogy, Don!  After all, we're only trying to get a little hot air, anyway.  We can manufacture all the natural gas and politicians we want.  After all, they're both made of BS.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Don,
I laughed out loud when I read that quote.  I did get it:  True statesman rare and hard to breed; politicians
                                                                                   a dime a dozen.

The process called "Thermal Depolymerization" will turn polyethylene, neoprene,
turkey guts, garbage, and even algal oil into diesel and burnable gases in just hours.

Company  :   CWT  Changing World Technologies
Subsidiary :    RES    Renewable Energy Systems (?Services?)
Privately held.  [Shucks!]

Key man :  Brian Appel

Pilot plant in Philadelphia
Joint venture with Conagra in Carthage, MO at their "Butterball" plant.
Producing 250,000 gallons of refined diesel per month from turkey waste as of Ap. 2007.
Cost per BARRELL after refining = $80 !

This one is not a dream.  They are making product at a feasible price.
The hitch with algae right now seems to be linking all the possibilites
together.  Independent researchers and inventors just have to be
linked by some venture capital entrepreneur and we will be in business,
even without the T. Boone plan.  Appel is probably just such a guy.

An interview with Appel which I read said,  "it takes millions of years for the
earth's processes to produce oil, but we are doing it in just hours."   If they
had at least entertained the alternate interpretation of oil geology (The Flood), 
scientists might have found these processes much sooner.  Their bias/belief
that it took millions of years could have served as a blinder of sorts.  Of course,
this alternative explanation is never studied in probably 99% of the schools of
the world today.  Too bad we are stuck in only one unproven groove.

CWT's proof-in-the-pudding is to "millions of years to make coal and oil,"
as Mt. St. Helen's "Little Grand Canyon on the Tootle River" is to the bigger Grand Canyon.
Both seem to say that things we thought took millions of years can happen in just hours.
(That "Little Grand Canyon" happened in one night.  It was over in the morning.)


P.S.  Refining algal oil is far less complex than the job of converting the stuff CWT works with.

[Fla._Deadheader]

 A very interesting read. Answers a LOT of questions from interested members, here.

  link here]

[OneWithWood]

Thanks for the link, Harold.  That is excellent news 

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Robert

  With all the input on Algae, I figured this thread would take off, but, had considered it dead  

  Yes, to me that is very interesting.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

FlaD

I still is very obvious, though, that people are mastering little
pieces of the algae challenge, but nobody is putting it all into
a continuous process.   The puzzle to me is why someone hasn't
already laid eyes on this, bought licenses from some of these
folks, and then patented the process in its entirety.

[Fla._Deadheader]

  This just in.  Big Oil is still out to getcha. 

  Link here

[Ron Wenrich]

If I had a corporation that was raking in the money like Chevron, I'd be looking for things to invest in.  Of course, they could invest in more oil drilling, but they still have tons of cash. 

I don't think they're out to get you as much as trying to diversify more into the energy field.  The government isn't going to invest that much in alternatives.  They don't have the money.  Its better to have someone like Chevron on your side than it is to have the government.  At least Chevron will get results.

[Don P]

and will sit on those results till they can maximize profits

[Fla._Deadheader]

 

and will sit on those results till they can maximize profits

  EXACTIMUNDO !!!!  I hear a LOT of griping and some talk of folks doing things for themselves. As far as I know, only a handful of us here are actually DOING anything about their fuel needs and prices.

  Algae CAN be grown in greenhouses, swimming pools, BIG plastic tubs, and other mediums. Wouldn't be THAT difficult to start experimenting, NOW, rather than waiting for BIG BUSINESS to get into the fray, and STILL keep prices artificially high.

  That's ALL I am trying to purvey.

  A LONG journey begins with that first step forward. 

[Bill]

Pretty much my thinking too. I think big energy needs competition.

Somebody big enough ( like lots of little coops ) so big oil is not the only game in town.

Not that big oil would try to thwart competition. 

I'd be for opening the door for local coops ( farmer, homeowner, etc )  to give the guy(gal) in the street some control of their own life .





"The use of vegetable oils for engine fuels may seem insignificant today. But such oils may become in the course of time as important as the petroleum and coal tar products of the present time." - Rudolph Diesel, 1912

[StorminN]

Here's a link to news item about a company that is making and testing biodiesel made from algae...

Solazyme B100 Algae Biodiesel Goes on the Road


What confuses me is, they grow it in the dark?? I need to read up on this...

Solazyme Ups Soladiesel Testing to B100

-Norm.