Anybody Live Near

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Troy, Michigan

  Ovionic Battery Company, has developed a new battery for Electric cars.

  Might be something to check on, and see why they are not available to the general public

[farmerdoug]

FDH,  Troy is about sixty miles to the south of me.  Maybe someone closer will chime in.

Maybe I can have a friend check in on them.  It might take some time though.

Do they have a website or address?

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Couldn't find anything about them, other than, they got a grant to develop this, along with GM

[farmerdoug]

GM you say.  That may have something to do with your question. 

 I will see what I can do.   Being GM is involved I may have an in.

[Radar67]

Here is their website...

http://www.ovonic.com/

[farmerdoug]

FDH,  Is that the same company?

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Not exactly. That's the Parent company that makes this film solar panels. Try OV I ONIC.

[Radar67]

If you click on the sitemap, you will find a link to their batteries.

Or just go here...
http://www.ovonic.com/ib_ba_omd_overview.cfm

or here
http://www.ovonic.com/PDFs/ovonic-materials/Ovonic-Fetcenko-2008-Wolsky-Seminar.pdf

[Fla._Deadheader]

 That is strange. I got ovIonics, and it gave the same info. How does it spelled 2 different ways, come out with the same website

  YEP, it's the same outfit. 

[farmerdoug]

Okay,  We have that settled.  I will put out some feelers and see what I hear.

[Woodcarver]

If they're hooked up with GM they may be working on the battery pack for the Volt, the electric car GM is supposed to be putting into production in a couple of years.

[Ron Wenrich]

Ovonics is a branch of Energy Conversion Devices.  Stan Ovshinsky was the founder.  You might find the following an interesting read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovonics

It seems that nowadays, all the companies are so intertwined that you can't really tell who owns what.  Taking that wikipedia information one step further, here is where you might find more information about NiMH batteries:

http://www.cobasys.com/

Those are manufactured in Springboro, OH.  Corporate headquarters are in Orion, MI.

[farmerdoug]

They also make the flexible solar cells here too.

[StorminN]

You guys need to watch the movie Who Killed the Electric Car... Stanley Ovshinsky and his wife were both interviewed a bunch in that movie, and in part of it, he walks around showing off his solar panel plant, too. He seemed like a really neat guy, but he has since passed away. His NiMh battery technology is not new, it was used in the later GM EV-1's, so that's about 10 years ago. Stanley ended up selling his NiMh battery technology rights to GM, who then sold them to Texaco, which was then bought by Chevron. This is covered in the Wikipedia entry that Ron posted above:

Patent encumberance
In 1994, General Motors acquired a controlling interest in Ovonics's battery development and manufacturing, including patents controlling the manufacturing of large nickel metal hydride (NiMH) batteries. In 2001, Texaco purchased GM's share in GM Ovonics. A few months later, Chevron acquired Texaco. In 2003, Texaco Ovonics Battery Systems was restructutred into Cobasys, a 50/50 joint venture between Chevron and Energy Conversion Devices (ECD) Ovonics.[4]
In her book, Plug-in Hybrids: The Cars that Will Recharge America, published in February 2007, Sherry Boschert argues that large-format NiMH batteries are commercially viable but that Cobasys refuses to sell or license them to small companies or individuals. Boschert reveals that Cobasys accepts only very large orders for these batteries. When Boschert conducted her research, major auto makers showed little interest in NiMH batteries. Since no other companies were capable of producing large orders, Cobasys was not manufacturing any NiMH batteries for automotive purposes.[5]
However, in December 2006, Cobasys and General Motors announced that they had signed a contract under which Cobasys provides NiMH batteries for the Saturn Aura hybrid sedan.[6] In March 2007, GM announced that it would use Cobasys NiMH batteries in the 2008 Chevrolet Malibu hybrid as well. Cobasys remains unwilling to produce and sell NiMH batteries in smaller quantities to individuals interested in building or retrofitting their own PHEVs.

P.S. I believe the batteries in the GM Volt are going to be Lithium-ion, not NiMh... so, a completely different technology...

-N.

[farmerdoug]

FDH,  I checked on the company today.  I asked about the batteries in your question.  I was told flat out that it is GM's baby and money.  I was also advised to drop the subject until GM puts their electirc car into production.  If GM does not get it going the battery may die in the vault.   If GM brings out the car the batteries will be on the market soon afterwards.

[Fla._Deadheader]

 

I was also advised to drop the subject until GM puts their electirc car into production.

  Sounds like the Gestapo is alive and arrogant, in Michigan, EH 

  Tough cheese for the people of the world, just make Billions or squash the technology.

[Part_Timer]

Just imagine the technology that is filed away in some vault or store room.  I bet the word would be a different place.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

I am right that there are laws against sitting on a patent unused?

Some of these may be beyond to the point of setting and ready to hatch.

[farmerdoug]

A patent protects your rights until it is up.  Then it is free to anyone to use.  But no one has to patent anything.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

I thought I remember a move to prevent patent ideas from being
deliberately controlled to prevent competition, since that was against
the overall concept of free innovation.  Maybe that never came to fruition.

An example would be a big, established NiMH maker buying the patent to
a revolutionary design, just to keep it off the market. 

[Ron Wenrich]

Isn't that what the oil companies have been accused of?  Seems to me that there were lots of carburetors that were supposedly bought up so they wouldn't be put on cars.  That way they would sell more gas. 

[farmerdoug]

If it is patented then it is recorded.  The designs are available for anyone to use after the patent expires.  If you are going to bury it then you should not patent it.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Ditto what farmerdoug said.

That is the spirit behind the letter of law which I was getting at.

[KGNC]

I don't know about the 200 mpg carbs and other technology thats suppose to be stowed away. But something I have noticed over the years is that if one person can invent or discover something then someone else can (and will) as well. There have been very few inventors that hasn't  had some one right on their heels that would have discovered the same thing. So if GM or an oil company has a new super battery on the shelf they can't expect it to stay there long till someone is making money off the idea.  Or if they patent it there will be a dozen variations that are trying to working around their patent.

IMHO everyone is looking for a single sliver bullet that will solve all the problems of our time. I'm not saying it can't happen but don't count on it.

Specifically on the batteries I understand that there are some higher energy chemistries but the trick is making them safe. Think about a gallon of gas will take you 30 miles, now we want to but 200 miles worth of energy in a box  the size of a bread box. The energy density is a lot higher, sounds difficult to accomplish to me.