i have an idea, but can someone tell me if it will work?

[zackman1801]

After reading through numerous posts about skidding logs with ATVs and tractors i had an idea. Ive seen alot of old heavy duty trucks for sale for not alot of money. old plow trucks and the like. So i had the idea of buying a cheap one and fixing it up some and building my own logging arch and using it to get firewood. My thought was to get supplies for the arch at a scrap yard since the materials would be cheaper than buying all new stuff and having my father weld it all together since he is a professional welder.  My next thought was to buy a hand powered winch since im short on money and i for the most part wont be hauling anything really more than 20-25 at the butt. and even that is a bit much for what im looking at.  alot of the stuff is around 10-12 at the but some a bit bigger and some smaller. So i was thinking of getting a hand powered winch that was rated for 8-10K pounds (if i can find one that big) my father used to have a pretty hefty one on the boat trailer but that was sold years ago. Then i was thinking of getting some Amsteel skidding rope which is famed to be cheaper and "stronger" than steel cable. They have some of that rated for 8k pounds in a 50' reel for around 80$.  im going to try and run the cable from the front of the arch down the underbelly of it and let it dangle down around where the wheels are. then i would take the rope wrap it around the logs and with the included  clip that they give you make a type of choker with it to haul the logs out. http://www.amsteelblue.com/item.cfm?itemid=44759.
im hoping to be able to haul 2 or 3 firewood logs with it out at a time to make things go faster.  so what do you think could it work?

[Maineloggerkid]

I think you have hit on something. THe only thing I wonder is how well you can navigate around with a full sized truck and an arch in tow. I think it might have potential, with some tweaking. For the same price you may be able to pick up an uncle henry's and find a small to mid-sized famr tractor for cheap. Some machines are a dime a dozen and will run forever.

I may be wrong, but that is my thought, anyway.

[WH_Conley]

Several years ago there used to be a lot of homemade skidders around here. Old trucks cut down and shortened. Usually with a homemade winch on the back, a square hay baler gear box makes a pretty good one. The standard was no brakes or limb risers. I don't have any pictures, but, beleive me these things were scary looking.

[zackman1801]

well i can find some of the old plow trucks and such for 200-300$ and my uncle has an old international scout for 100-200$ i think he might sell me. As far as navigating it shouldent be too hard because im basically cutting anything that is firewood size and trying to reclaim some grown up fields so that means basically take anything i can, so as far as having to get in between trees wont be a problem. Plus the ground is relatively flat with only a small grade at the end to climb which isnt steep. my only concern is its going to be hard to find a hand winch and then once i get it mounted winch logs up high enough with it without giving myself  a hernia.

[Kevin]

Use a mechanical advantage above the log .

[zackman1801]

thats pretty much what i had thought about doing. although i cant find any hand powered winches that are rated for more than a few thousand pounds which isnt going to work out too well.

[Rick Alger]

From your description of the chance, it sounds like you'd be better off stump cutting. (Cut to length where it falls and toss in a trailer) You won't have merchantable logs, so there's no reason to skid tree-length to a landing, and if you have your customer list set up, you can go from the woods to the customer's house.  You could probably put Ag plates on the Scout if it's your family's wood.

[zackman1801]

whatever i buy for a vehicle wont ever leave the family land so i really dont need to put plates on it at all. i have no customers its just personal use. the only reason i want to pull tree length is so i dont have to deal with all of the wood cubes in the woods. then i can cut them on the landing and leave them untill i need them. i dont have room in my yard since i live in town and have no place to put a stack of wood. so i would just leave it there and take it as i need it. i also plan to leave most of it for awhile and let it season.  i have though about what your proposing but it seems that it would be more work than necessary, as i would have to cut it down, cut it up load it, unload it, let it sit and then load it back up, rather than just cut it down haul it, let it sit, cut it up and then load it.

[Rick Alger]

Yes, I see your point.
 
Might google L&T Logging. There are a couple arches there, built by Patrick Harvey, that use a truck transmission for mechanical advantage for the winch. He pulled half a cord of tree-length hardwood with his four wheel arch and a pair of heavy horses.

I believe Dick Lizotte (from Buckfield ) ran something similar.

I have used rope with some old skidder slides on my horse drawn arch and the system worked fine. I've never felt the need of a winch. To get the butts off the ground, I just stop at a high spot in the trail, back up snug  and hitch tight.

[zackman1801]

yeah that sounds semi complicated and probably more than i have money for also.
although i might change my plans some. i was looking through a tool magazine and i found a come a long that was rated for 8K pounds. it was only around $30 more in my price range. that might work better than a hand powered winch because you can get more leverage pulling downward than in a forward motion like the crank on the winch. although im just worried that if the logs bounce while im hauling them that they might kick up and then fall down hard and destroy the come a long.

[Kevin]

You only need a 1500 lb. winch to lift 9ft. log lengths.

[John Mc]

...i found a come a long that was rated for 8K pounds. it was only around $30 more in my price range. that might work better than a hand powered winch because you can get more leverage pulling downward than in a forward motion like the crank on the winch...

Have you thought about how much you are going to have to crank that 8000# come along to move the log even 1 foot? Let's say that come-along is designed to give you 8000# of pull from 50# of pull from the operator. That's a 160 to 1 ratio. This means you'll have to crank that come-along handle through 160 feet of motion to get 1 foot of movement on the log. That's a lot of cranking to move 1 foot.

If you are going to be hand cranking, I'd first make sure you've got the right sized winch for the job. Are you trying to actually skid logs with this hand-powered winch, or just load them in the truck?

[zackman1801]

i was thinking of skidding logs with it but, as i think of it now i might want to cut some extra sections out of the rope,then winch it up higher than i need,then take the extra sections wrap those around each individual log and then hang the logs with them. that way all of the pressure is taken off of the winch, and it is then put onto the arch.
like what you would do with a farmi winch, use the winch to pull the logs in but then hook the chokers into the small groves for transport that way the winch isnt holding the load as you move.

[Gary_C]

Most of those old single axle trucks were really poor on traction with no load in the back. And tandems were even worse. Four wheel drive or chains would be a must. Plus the turning radius was not good for some woods roads let alone thru the trees.

You have got lots of challenges ahead.

[zackman1801]

Most of those old single axle trucks were really poor on traction with no load in the back. And tandems were even worse. Four wheel drive or chains would be a must. Plus the turning radius was not good for some woods roads let alone thru the trees.

You have got lots of challenges ahead.

im unsure what the axle set up for the scout is, but i know that since there are not wood roads i have the option to make my own, and since im cutting all of the wood around a stone wall i can make my own roads and make them as straight as i can.

[thecfarm]

Make sure it's 4wd no matter what.You will spend alot of time getting hung up with a 2wd.With the way it's been raining,or trying to rain,that woods dirt is some greasy when you spin.I myself have never used a hand winch.I have brought out wood before with an old cut up truck at my brothers.It was shorted and was only 2wd drive.Was a challenge just not to swear at it empty.But I got another brake system and that helped out alot.When One wheel would spin we would step on what ever wheel was spinning.Also helped out on steering and making it turn better,just like a farm tractor.We cut everything up into stove wood length right in the woods.How about cutting it up into 4 foot?I feel you have a good idea but have ALOT of work with the hand winch and probaly time.If I had to do it.I would go with 4 foot in your case.
I would also lock down the hood and gas cap.Don't need someone pouring something into the gas tank or pulling wires off the motor for something to do.Good luck.

[Kevin]

The winch line should only be used for lifting.
Secure the logs with chains for transport.

[zackman1801]

i guess it might be a better option to do something in four foot or smaller then, its going to be hard to say the least to get the materials together to build an arch, although i could do it its just probably not super important it come out tree length.
although as far as people screwing with it that wont be a problem its on about 200acres of private property with the only access road going right through my cousins driveway, anyone going down there would have to drive right in through the driveway past the barn and down in. im not as concerned with anyone touching it as i would be if i were on someone elses property.

[John Mc]

If I'm following you, it sounds as though you're going to back the truck right up to the log, and just use the winch to lift the end of the log up off the ground. You'll then drive drive the truck off, dragging the log to where you intend to cut and split into firewood. Is this right?

If so, I'd second the suggestion to use chains on the logs. You can get choker chains pretty inexpensively, and they'll hold up better than the ropes. You can still use the rope for lifting or hauling the logs to that truck, but use the choker chain on the log itself. It will hold up better to being dragged through the soil and rocks with the weight of the log on it. Once it's to your truck, and lifted up in the air (by your rope and winch), you can hook the chains into slots you added on the back of the truck (like on the back of a Farmi-type winch).

For one season, I was cutting logs into 4 footers, dragging them by hand to my trailer (a pair of hand-held log tongs helped a lot with this) then loading them in a trailer. I'd finish cutting them to 16" lengths and splitting when I got them home. I finally decided that if I was going to cut to 4 foot lengths, I was better off just cutting them right down to stove length for anything that I could get the trailer up close to: If I already have the chainsaw out cutting, I might as well cut it down to final size. The only exception to this was when I couldn't get the trailer close to the log. Carrying a bunch of 16" rounds gets old pretty quick... That's what finally convinced me to go for the logging winch. Now I winch everything out to my main trails, and cut it to stove length right there. If my friend with the splitter is handy, I split it right there, then load into a trailer. If not, I cart the stove-length rounds home and split there.

John Mc

[Woodhog]

This what a lot of people used in the woods for years around here, you can still see them where they left them.

We called them a "truck tractor".  They had no cab on them at all, just the seat was left.
We used chains on the wheels.

In the scheme of things they fit in between horses - oxen and the small farm tractors.

The drawback was you had a wide turning radius, so you want to plan your roads a bit so you dont box yourself in.

They didnt have the bad tendency to roll over backwards around the large wheel on the back that a farm tractor does while skidding.

Any old rig on the back with a few long chains and you can skid out your wood, just need to get the small end off the ground a bit.

You can just use a grab hook on the end of a chain, whatever you have on the end it should be open faced so you can get them untangled at the landing easily.

If you want you can junk the firewood in the woods and bring it out in a box on the back or gear it up for loading 4 foot wood by hand instead of skidding it out.

They used to be quite the piece of gear roaring around with no mufflers, hoods etc....

Be carefull of fire...