How much would you charge for milling cant ?

[UCUT2]

Hello everyone,

     I have just joined the forum.It's a Great site, Lots of Info! My question is. I have gentleman who wants me to saw some elm into 8X8 cants so that he can build some yokes for his oxen.Would it be fair to charge by the hour? or the bdft. I have a woodmizer LT10 mill.Please Help.

[WDH]

The most practical way would be by the hour in my opinion.

[Magicman]

First, Welcome to FF, UCUT2.  I charge by the hour when cutting cants and cedar.

On little "junk" jobs like that, I have charged nothing, and ended up being tipped more than I would have charged.  But, be prepared to get nothing.....

Now, you asked "how much".  Considering  time, fuel, blade, my guess would be between $25-$50 per hour.

[jdtuttle]

I leave it up to the customer. $60.00 per hour or .30 BF.
Welcome to the FF
jim

[John Bartley]

First, Welcome to FF, UCUT2.  I charge by the hour when cutting cants and cedar.

.....snipped.......

Now, you asked "how much".  Considering  time, fuel, blade, my guess would be between $25-$50 per hour.

Magicman,

Not picking on you specifically, but the "how much" question comes up often and gets such a wide variety of answers that it's mind boggling.

Just for the record, when I bought my mill (brand new), I did some basic cost accounting. I come from a family of academics and accountants (I'm the black sheep), and have done some accounting training myself, and tend to be a bit anal about "costs", so I did a spreadsheet based on estimated (but very close to actual) costs, including mill replacement, major and minor repairs, basic maintenance, sharpening etc....

My accounting showed me that based on an estimated life of 2000 hours for a motor before rebuild, and 4000 hours for a mill replacement  or full rebuild, my cost to run the mill is $25/hr, and if I want any profit it has to be charged ON TOP of $25/hr.

Now, I know that there are many, many war stories of mils with 5000 hours on them and no repairs, but after a lifetime spent in mechanical services, I've learned to estimate conservatively. It causes less financial trouble......

My hourly rate is $60/hr.

cheers

John

[Magicman]

No problem John.  I don't like posting prices/rates.  As a matter of fact, I think that this is a first for me.  I also don't like to appear to give advice.  I do what I do based on my experience.  I wouldn't want to alter anyone else's experiences.

I had made my post, and went back and added that on "edit".  I read where the OP has an LT10, and obviously is not making a living sawing or he would not have asked the question to begin with.   Also, rates vary greatly across the country.  That's why I had a $25 spread.

Now, to say exactly what I would do.  I would charge nothing.  Mark it up as customer relations, and I'll guarantee that it will pay big dividends later on.  If nowhere else.....in me.

BTW....I don't know what kind of mill that you have, but I'm glad that mine is not on that 2000/4000 schedule....    

[DanG]

Welcome to the forum Ucut2!

Considering that you're using a little Lt10, it would be rather brash of you to charge $60 per hour, imho.  The only really fair way to charge with one of those little mills is by the BF, as your hourly production is much lower than with a larger mill.

I tend to do as Magicman suggested when the job is real tiny, and just not charge them, or I have charged as little as five or ten bucks sometimes.  Now if the job is bigger than that, then I'd just go with your board foot price.

[Bibbyman]

If it was only a couple,  and didn’t look anything complicated,  I'd just whack them out and shake his hand and tell him I'd make it up the next time he needs something.

You can't charge enough to justify all your total time on an odd project like that.

P.S.  Welcome to the Forum!

[red oaks lumber]

welcome to the forum..sometimes it's called "public relations"the $20-$60 you didn't charge will come back many many times over. just my opinoin.

[UCUT2]

 Thanks everyone on your input.   I like you points on not charging.Being a small job my expense would be low. And the return could be three fold.It would be good advertising.I would like to see the milling expand. Milling is a  lot fun. I grew up working on a Lane circular mill.It would make for a good retirement job in a few years.Maybe some day It could justify a LT40

[Magicman]

One other point.  Since the gent is going to build Ox yokes, why not contact your local newspaper and get a story started.  Let them cover from the time the log was a log.  Take pictures while you are sawing.  Then of the yoke making process.  I can visualize some very good (free) advertisement here.

I've done this before, and ended up on the Front Page of the local newspaper twice.  I know a couple of my competitors that were really "wizzed" !!! 

[Cedarman]

Magicman has it right about getting the paper to write a story.  We did that a bunch 25 years ago when we were portable and doing custom sawing.  Gets the calls.
Our WM  LT30 electric is at 11,000 plus hours and runs perfect. Our resaw WM has run since 92, probably 22,000 hours plus on the 25 HP motors, hydraulic feed motor runs just fine too.

Now gas and diesel motors are a different story.
As far as mill replacement, you might want to replace but it won't be because the mill is wore out. Ours saws as good today as it did when we bought it.

[backwoods sawyer]

On a small job I will charge by the hour but give the customer a cap so that he knows that it will cost no more, but could cost less if the job is done quickly. Then again “no charge” works for me as well.

[DR_Buck]

I'd figure the cost a my bf rate, then quote the customer a price each.  So an 8x8x8' would be ~42 bf.   I'd quote $15 each.

[Brad_S.]

I am going to buck the trend and not agree that a freebie is the way to go. Running an LT10 means you are not in this as a business so you won't need a huge goodwill word of mouth reputation to keep the mill busy every day. Once word gets out that you have a mill you will have enough to keep a small mill like that going on a part time basis.
I had a set minimum of $25 no matter how small the job and even then I sometimes just broke even. I had mill expenses and prep time, loader payment and maintenance costs and I often spent more time handling the little logs and lumber than actual saw time. I couldn't just give my time away, especially when those small onesy twosy jobs made up the bulk of my sawing on some weeks.

[moonhill]

On the small jobs I have said "don't worry about it, I was sawing anyway".  Usually the customer hand a few bill my way just the same.  I then say "Thanks" and pick up where I left off.  That is with a few 2x4's or such.  8x8 are large and heavy, I would charge your standard rate.  Do a nice job and they will be back. 

Tim

[Cedarman]

I tend to take the Brad S approach. We are on the other end of the scale and can saw quickly.  But a walk in with a small order can mess the flow of the mill up.  If I am there, I am a floater so I can jump and do odd things and that won't mess with the flow.  99% of the people are so thankful that we will do it, that they don't mind paying a fair price.  They can't get it done elsewhere.  Mind you custom cutting a log or two is not too common.  More common is that they want a special board or 2.
The other day a guy wanted 2 posts 6" in diameter peeled on our German peeler  and a 1" thick slab cut off. I price over the phone at $30.00 each and he said that sounded like a bargain because he had been hunting for a week.  He drove 60 miles and said he appreciated us doing these 2 posts for him.  We waited until he got here to cut the slabs to make sure we did what he wanted.  Everyone had told him he couldn't get what he wanted.  Internet is great.  For me the price seemed high, for him, he got a bargain.  We both win.

Have you ever needed a rush job done and you show up at a business at closing time and the owner says he will have to charge extra to keep a guy over? Aren't you elated that they will stay and make the hose of fix a tire or whatever that the extra price seems cheap. Oh man, I am lucky they did this for me.  I like this place.  Especially if they do it with a smile on their face.

[Magicman]

I am going to buck the trend and not agree that a freebie is the way to go. Running an LT10 means you are not in this as a business so you won't need a huge goodwill word of mouth reputation to keep the mill busy every day.

Brad makes a very good point  Especially the "not in this as a business".

Different folks, with different size mills, and different goals have to weigh each situation differently.

[Fla._Deadheader]

 

Different folks, with different size mills, and different goals have to weigh each situation differently.

  Right ON. 

  Having voiced my opinion in the beginning, I can also say, we have done "Freebies".   

[John Bartley]

Ok, now that I don't have to be the lone voicing crying in the wilderness............(thanks BradS)........I will come forward and I  will admit that I have also done "freebies", but.........never for a newcomer. I was in business for myself for many years, and one of the things that really p****d me off was when I'd see MY bank advertising free this and free that for newcomers who'd come and do their banking at MY bank. I'd been there, a loyal customer for 20+ years, and who are they giving stuff away to?.?.? Not me.........it was to someone who had never demonstrated their loyalty as a customer. I vowed to NEVER do that, so the "free" stuff in my business went to my repeat customers, the ones who stuck with me, who came back time after time after time.....  I set a minimum charge in my shop and I applied it to ALL newcomers, but used my discretion when a long time customer came by for a small job. I'm not a charity, but I can say thanks to loyal customers now and again. Newcomers?.?.?.?.?.?.....first you show me how good of a customer you're going to be, then I'll give you a"freebie".
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Yes, I'm a capitalist......and a cheapskate.......and a conservative accountant type.......and BTW...sorry for the rant

cheers

John