"Ethanol . . . . what a joke!"

[SwampDonkey]

( wonder what the supermarket does with all their "spoiled" fruit ?    )

From what I remember, a lot was sent to Queen Charlotte City along with expired milk. 

[Fla._Deadheader]

 There's another feedstock. Whey, from cheese making from milk. Back in the day, it was dumped. Might still be

[DanG]

There are thousands of potential feedstocks.  The problem with most of them is that it takes a certain enzyme to turn each individual one into a viable commercial alternative.  Many of the necessary enzymes are known, but are too expensive to be economically feasible.  In fairness to those in Government employ who are actually doing their jobs, and there are many, there is a great deal of research going on and some success is being noted.  Scientists at the Land Grant Universities(Govt employees) are working feverishly to develop new ways to make the enzymes industry needs to go forward.  A while back, I started a little thread about a tv program I saw.  It was a locally produced documentary on our PBS station, that featured Florida's Commissioner of Agriculture walking us through a tour of the State's alternative energy programs.  In it there was a segment on ethanol from orange peels, with an extensive interview of a U. of Fla scientist who is working in that field.  That program has brought the enzyme cost for a gallon of ethanol down from $12+, to a mere eighty cents, which has enabled that product to now be in commercial production.  It is my understanding that Fla is now producing about 20 million gallons of ethanol per year from orange peels alone.

[TexasTimbers]

I was researching another alternative fuel i heard about when I stumbled across this.   

For the dialup folks a summation of what was the general tone of the mini-report was summed up by jerry Taylor of the CATO Institute in his closing remark while being interviewed by John Stossel:

"It's not gonna produce energy independence. It's not gonna clean the air. It's gonna do none of those things. All it will do is make corn farmers richer, and comapnies  like ADM who process ethanol ALOT richer. It'll make everyone of us who aren't in that business POORER. This is a naked transfer (of wealth) program . . . that's all it is."








Here is another link with some good discussion on it. It starts out about how ethanol will actually be detrimental to greenhouse gasses etc. but it gets interesting with other talking points besides the environemental issues. Especially when one poster brings to light the Germanys angst over how it has effected their beer prices. Not a joke in Germany. They take Beer very seriously. In fact they refer to it as their "liquid bread". 

                         "It's absolutely outrageous that beer is getting even more expensive," Mr. Glutsch said, gulping down the last swig of his half-litre
                             dark  beer at lunch. "But there's nothing we can do about it -- except drinking less and that's not going to happen."

[DanG]

I know nothing of any Jerry Taylor or CATO Institute, but if it came up in a Stossel interview, it is nothing but scare-mongering bullsnot.

[SwampDonkey]

Here in Canada, they tax alcohol heavier than gasoline. So, if you can scoot under the radar and do your own thing and keep quiet so as to use your own in your lawn mower or moped then great. 

They don't collect any tax from me on consumptive use of alcohol I'm afraid, so there should be less hospital beds to keep open.

[TexasTimbers]

I don't know much about Stossel, but I know the CATO Institute has credibility with me. 

What part of the interview did you disagree with DanG

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Stossel must have outdone himself, then in this interview.  He seemed to be getting
right to the meat of the issue - with the Iowa politician, especially.

Due to the corn price, corn ethanol is effectively dead in the water.
Only by means of a crash in corn heard 'round the world would that fact change.
Keep in mind that I am speaking specifically here :  Corn-fed ethanol production.

Ethanol will have to come from other sources to be financially feasible.
Even then, it is best left to the "additive" useage, rather than being a primary fuel.

[DanG]

The Stossel part.

Unfortunately, I'm one of those dial-up users that you so kindly synopsized the interview for.  I haven't had a chance yet, but I'll research CATO a little bit and see what I can learn.  It has been my experience, for the most part, that anything that has the word "institute" in its name is usually nestled comfortably in a deep pocket somewhere.

I don't know of anything that will poke my BS button faster than the name, "John Stossel."  He was Geraldo Rivera's replacement on 20/20.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Cato Institute = ?Conservative thinktank

Stossel
Only maybe the third interview I ever watched of his

[DouginUtah]

There is some confusion going on here. 

Dan, John Stossel and Geraldo Rivera are opposites. John Stossel is a conservative, Republican right winger. Rivera is not. I was surprised when I read your dislike of Stossel since, although you are somewhat independent, I have always felt that you swing to the conservative side.

TexasTimbers, the CATO Institute is a conservative thinktank (as Phil said) which exists to put out disinformation, and they are in bed with Big Oil. Their biggest claim to fame is their association with the tobacco industry--as in smoking does not cause cancer.

[DanG]

I don't like scare-mongering carpetbaggers who purport themselves to be journalists, no matter what their politics are.  Being a true conservative-leaning centrist, I view conservative bullsnot as an embarrassment, but liberal bullsnot is just laughable.  I do not enjoy being embarrassed.  BS is just BS, and it serves no useful purpose for anybody, except the BSer.

[TexasTimbers]

I did not know the CATO was biased like that. I thought they were non-profit at least. That don't mean much anymore I know, but if CATO is in bed with big oil they are in for the profit. They ought to be whupped with a knotted plowline if they are doing that.

Maybe they should put out some feelers to the corn folks and let them know for the right amount of shekels they can discover the merits of corn-based ethanol after all.

[Ron Wenrich]

Actually, the Cato Institute is more of a libertarian thinktank, not a conservative one.  They oppose the conservatives on several fronts, including foreign policy, drugs and immigration.  They support some conservative programs and have been largely responsible for the Social Security privatization policy that went down in flames.

As for funding, they get a good deal of their funding from individual contributions.  I remember getting something in the mail from them.  Who those individuals are, and how much they contribute, I don't know.  But, they only get 2% of their funding from corporations.  Their 2008 budget is $24 million.

You can read more at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CATO