cutting down trees

[ID4ster]

It depends on how far the back lean is. If its a tree that can be wedged over against the lean I put the back cut in first, drive in my wedges and then put in the front cuts and drive the tree over. If the lean is too severe to take it straight against the lean than I'll drop if up to a 90 degree angle to the lean. If the lean is too severe to wedge and you need to drop it straight against the lean then use  the big yellow wedge and that will take care of the problem.

[jokers]

Yes Kevin, the method illustrated in the video is inverted and that is why I stated that it is a variation on the theme of what Zack described. The only reason that I feel you have a problem with me posting this is because it seems that you keep on coming back and posting that it won`t work. I`m sorry Kevin, I have alot of respect and admiration for your skill but this technique does work, and it isn`t that hard.

[Kevin]

I know it works but is there any advantage over just sticking a wedge in the felling cut and and wedging the tree over?
There may be an advantange to using the tongue and groove for falling a tree but I don't see it.
The problem with small trees is there isn't enough space behind the hinge to place the full length of the wedge.
If you bore the hinge you might gain an inch at best.
A better solution would be a double taper wedge.
I like the tongue and groove for bucking because it serves a purpose but I'm not convinced it has any purpose for falling a tree.
Russ;
The respect and admiration is mutual, this is just a discussion on a felling technique and any advantage it may have .
Thanks for posting the video for others to see.

[John Mc]

Well, I don't have the experience or expertise of either of you, but I have used this method to drop a lot of small trees with back lean. FWIW, here are some of my thoughts:

I know it works but is there any advantage over just sticking a wedge in the felling cut and and wedging the tree over?

On a small tree, you may only be able to drive the wedge in 4 inches or so. Not much lift from that.

There may be an advantage to using the tongue and groove for falling a tree but I don't see it.
The problem with small trees is there isn't enough space behind the hinge to place the full length of the wedge.
If you bore the hinge you might gain an inch at best.

If all you do is bore the hinge, you might only get another inch of drive on the wedge. If after boring the hinge, you drop down one bar thickness and bore again from the notch just far enough in to pass the hinge (as described in an earlier post), you create a larger gap for the wedge, allowing much more of the wedge to be driven in. It can make the difference between half or less of the wedge when you don't bore through the hinge, to using the full wedge when you do bore and relieve the hinge as described.

I like the tongue and groove for bucking because it serves a purpose but I'm not convinced it has any purpose for falling a tree.

Perhaps part of the problem is one of perception. There is no purpose for the tongue and groove... other than to complete the back cut and sever the fibers without hitting your wedge. Unlike in bucking, it has nothing to do with steering the tree or preventing it from twisting. The offset in the video was much more exaggerated than it needed to be. You just need to offset either up or down just enough to avoid nicking the wedge (I always seem to offset up... but I haven't thought about it much).

John Mc

[Kevin]

John;
I think you nailed it.
Perception being a small tree but actually a small tree that is leaning back.
I can see where it would be a benefit in a situation like that.
It allows you make the back cut and still have wood supporting the tree as in a bore with a strap.
You make the two back cuts and the tree remains supported while you drive the wedge ahead tripping the tree.

[John Mc]

Kevin -

That's it. It's just a way someone figured out to use similar "bore cut"-type methods when you don't otherwise have room to drive a wedge. Boring back through the hinge makes a slot for your wedge, but leaves the sides in place to support the tree so it doesn't settle back and close up the back cut before you can get the wedge in. Once the wedge is set, you make the two back cuts and give a few whacks on the wedge to take the back lean out and drive the tree over. It's a waste of time on a small tree without any back lean.

John Mc

[rebocardo]

> My final cookie was almost 4" thick

Now that I know someone that actually uses them like that with success I might try it myself. Though if I had an oak of any size decent size in an urban area that needed a 4" cookie, I think I might tell them to call an arborist, I am not that brave.   

[zackman1801]

 It's a waste of time on a small tree without any back lean.

thats why this technique is only used for trees that are small, and have more than 1-2 feet of back lean, if they have only a small amount usually you can just push them over if they are small enough. i know that some people have different opinions on what small is, so im talking trees >12" DBH.  anything bigger you can just bore cut normally and have room for a few wedges.

[John Mc]

Now that I know someone that actually uses them like that with success I might try it myself. Though if I had an oak of any size decent size in an urban area that needed a 4" cookie, I think I might tell them to call an arborist, I am not that brave.   

The one I did this on was a black walnut. The back lean was over a small riverside cottage at my in-laws. I did chicken out a bit. I wanted to see if it was possible (I was confident it was, but seeing is believing). I figured I didn't want to get the thing most of the way cut, and then discover that I wished I had tied a rope or chain up high. We took a good rope and tied it off to a tractor before I started cutting. We put just a bit of tension on it, but the tractor driver's instructions were to let me push it over with the wedges unless I signaled him otherwise. It was neat seeing the step up in cookies from about 3/4" up to something that looked a bit thicker than a 4X4 as I alternated wedges. This tree was big enough that the angle in the backcut created by a cookie that size was not something that was in danger of spitting the cookie out of the gap (a 4" cookie in a 10 or 12" dbh tree would be more of a concern).

Fun time. Would have been quicker to just pull it over once we already had the tractor and the rope set up, but it was a good learning experience for me.

John Mc

[Phorester]

Interesting video, and really explains his technique.  But I never hear any music when I'm cutting trees.

Maybe that's a good thing.........

[Kevin]

It might also be a benefit when cutting small trees in a breeze to help control movement.

[John Mc]

But I never hear any music when I'm cutting trees.

Maybe that's a good thing.........

If you start hearing voices, that's when we really get worried...

John Mc