Core boring trees?

[Ironwood]

I am buying many walnut lately and would like a professional opinion on the core boring sets I see in Ben Meadows. Does anyone have experience w/ these? I am looking at the longer (hence more $$) and would like some input before I buy one. Do they frequently break? Can / will I be able to see if the trees are in good shape? Thanks

 Ironwood

[WDH]

Reid,

I have never broken one.  However, I can tell you this....if you bore a hardwood, after you remove the core from the borer, don't stand there and admire/examine the core.  Remove the borer from the tree immediately.  If not, the tree's sap can seal around the borer and you will have a very hard time removing it or it will be stuck.  After you immediately remove the borer, then you can admire the core . 

[Texas Ranger]

Yup, to what Danny said.  Been boring for 40 years (Yeah, that too) and have never broken one, but thought a time or two I would end up leaving it in a tree. Particularly if you hit rot or an open core. 

[TexasTimbers]

I routinely drill holes with an auger to check for rot/soildity etc. The auger bit will give you a sample in the form of large shavings so you can even detect slight punkiness.

I am sure an actual core would be much better of course, but what info can you definately get from it (age I presume if you hit the pith dead on) and what info would you possibly get with it, and what info can you not get with a core sample?

[Texas Ranger]

You don't get a whole lot of information.  But what you get is important to forest management.  Most particular, you see the growth rate, when the stand closed in, and when it should be thinned.  You can tell a bit about what the wood may look like by ring count and condition.  Heart rot and internal stress "may" show up.  Mostly age, though.

[Ron Wenrich]

I don't understand why you want to bore walnut for purchasing purposes.  Are you interested in how thick the sapwood or general tree condition?

When you do a core boring, you put a defect in the tree.  There will be a hole there, and if a veneer buyer sees it, then that $6-8/bf log drops considerably in value.  If you're using for sawlogs, then you'll have a defect in the board.  That can be cut out of lumber, but you might lose a nice piece of moulding.

I'd be buying walnut by the outwards appearances.  Bark can give you lots of indication of what the insides looks like.  If you're worried about rot, then sound the trees.  I used to use a single bit axe on trees.  But, you could use a nice size hammer to give you a good sounding.

[Texas Ranger]

 A pocket knife worked in my old Missouri "butt pat" days.  Put your ear to a stem, and tap your pocket knife butt on the stem as far around as you could reach.  To big a stem, get you partner to hit it.

[Ironwood]

Thanks for all the input. I am buying the trees from yards and need to know some degree of internal quality. I flitch saw so it is not the case that I can cut around defect. If there is iinternal issues I will "pass " on that tree. As far as leaving a defect from the hole, I plan t obore them at the ground and most would never be cut down for any verneer purpose.

 I suppose sounding the trees makes sense to some degree, but I really want to know what going on inside quality wise. heart rot may "sound"  fine but will be worth a fraction of a "good" solid tree. PErhaps it is too much $$ for the incremental increase in knowlege over the standard boring.

 Ironwood

[Ron Scott]

Our northern hardwoods are a little harder on the bores, especially if not careful with them. I've broken two over the years and they're not cheap. The bore ends also become dull and need periodic sharpening.

I'm not sure that you will want to do a lot of boring. Might be better to use and become skilled with a sounding hammer or hatchet as peviously mentioned. Also if you saw a lot of walnuts you will become familiar with the outside indicators of various defects.

[Phorester]

I don't know if an increment borer will give you the info you want or not.  Even if you drill several holes in a tree or log (and would you want to do this), you can still miss defects and decay just a fraction of an inch away from the borer.

Try this link for an in depth discussion on internal tree/log defects and different detection methods.

http://www.fs.fed.us/eng/pubs/html/97241202/97241202.html

I've broken off one borer in a tree myself many years ago.  Went back and girdled the tree with an ax rather than risk some poor sawmiller sawing it up in the future with a stainless steel rod in the middle of it. I also learned a bitter lesson about not letting kids use one.  On a nature hike years ago I was letting kids bore a tree with mine to show them how to do it and how hard it was to do.  Hands-on learning.  One 12-year old boy pulled so hard sideways when he was trying to twist the borer into the tree that he broke it off. 

A couple years ago against my better judgement, I let a high school student use mine for a science class report after much cajoling by him and his father.  It came back with the extractor broken.  Of course, it was not his fault......... "it was already bent when we started using it"   

I use an old one, bare stainless steel.  Not teflon coated as are the newer ones.  It rusts fast if it gets wet either from rain or sap in hardwoods. I clean it internally several times a year with a .22 caliber bore brush, the outside with a wire wheel on a bench grinder. then oil it good inside and out.  Have sharpened it once in the last few years.

I'm wondering, though, if you would get better internal decay info in a tree or log with something like a
Shigometer or an ultrasound device.  These are discussed in the above link.

[Ironwood]

Thanks guys.

 I started looking at th elink, VERY interesting.


 Ironwood

[Pullinchips]

if your boring  at the end of the log in the yard you could just look at the end    Like said you can miss spotsand im sure the dealer if he sees you bore it its yours. also if you do find and bore into a hollow in the tre you cantget your borer out. In school i was messing around and decited to bore all the way through a 3'' pine it was hard as h3@@ to get it back out lots of hard pullin and twisting at the same time.  HW is 5 x's harder to bore so it may keep yourbit? ner tried it though just wack them if suspect.

-nate

[Ironwood]

Nate,

 Thanks, no, these are trees that are standing, and will not be cut if I don't purchase them. Additionally, if the tree are being dropped anyway, this give myself and the owner the opportunity to have more info when making an estimation of value. I can see as good as the next guy when the logs are in the yard .
 
 Ironwood

[pappy19]

In the late 80's, I bored thousands of trees for Valley County, Idaho for revaluating all of the private timbered lands; approximately 360,000 acres. I had 2 borers and had them sharpened twice a year. I also used PAM every 5-6 bores and that helped alot. At night, I used a 22 cleaning kit with terpentine and finished up with PAM. I never broke a borer. I had a few "stickers", but always managed to get the cores unstuck.