Using E85 In Your Sawmill

[GF]

Some of the fuel stations around my area have been selling E10 fuel without notifying the customers.  I filled my sawmill engine up with E10 the other day and noticed it did not run quit as smooth and seem to burn much more.  I was not aware the fuel I had put in it had ethanol in it until I had someone test it.  The pumps I used to fill the containers were not marked as having ethanol.   I was wondering if anyone else has ran into this?

[york]

 GF-just looked at your link-what is your mill????thanks,Bert

[beenthere]

GF
How did you "have someone check it"...??

Fortunately, we have a Mobil station in town with no ethanol added....don't know for how long tho.

[stonebroke]

If they sold you E85 without telling you and did not give you a price break I would say they are committing fraud.

Stonebroke

[flip]

No but your findings are typical.  A lot of stations are using up to 15% ethanol in the "regular" stuff.  Do not be surprised if you start to develop some leaks or seeps in your carb or fuel system, ethanol is hard on some seals and gaskets.  
Unrelated but since the govt. made everyone switch to low sulpher diesel we have see a lot of 7.3 diesels with fuel drain valve leaks.  We contribute it to the 2 orings on the valve being incompatible with what ever filler they are using in place of the sulpher.  
Hope all turns out well.
It's easy to see if you have E85, put some in a mason jar and take a wif, smells more like alcohol than gasoline.

[Tom]

The wife called me from town last night, all miffed that Hess had put alcohol in the gas.  The price didn't reflect it and the sign was an added tag on the pump where she didn't see it until after she had pumped a half of a tank.   She quit.

I'm wondering what it will do to the older cars that frequent the station.  Mine is probably OK, being a 2005, but there are a lot of vintage autos that use that station.

[GF]

A majority if not all the Wal-Mart (Murpheys) in Oklahoma use E85, until someone brought to the attention of the public via the news no one was aware of this, now they have an E85 sticker on the pump.

My sister has a Camry and used regular gas it got 34MPG with gas, when she filled up at Wal-Mart her milage went to 27MPG.  Driving the same way to work everyday to compare them.

According to the Oklahoma law currently they can sell E85 and not have to let anyone know.

The E85 gas is the same price as the normal gas.

[GF]

Real question now is they are not telling us they are putting ethanol in the E85, are they exceeding the 15% ethanol?   I am guessing they are putting more than 15%. 

[wudhed]

E85 will also do bad things to the valvetrain in your engine. Since it contains alcohol it burns hotter and will burn up your valves and seats. If your vehicle isnt set up for E85 its bad news!
 The E85 that is available to us here in the states is a joke! Corn is the very worst thing that you can get ethanol from. There is an ethanol plant in Brazil (i think) that uses sugar cane it puts out way more ethanol than corn and htey use the leftovers to power the plant that makes it as well as a small community several miles down the road. You get way less milage from E85 then regular gas or even gas with 10% ethanol in it. One of my employee's has a newer Chevy truck that is flexfuel and he says that the milage suffers considerably when he uses E85.

[Toolman]

Its an incredible case of fraud and it's legal. I've been adding 1 oz. synthetic motor oil to ULSD fuel for every 10 gal. fuel for lubricity plus 3 oz. 99% pure acetone every 10 gal. For Gasoline same amounts plus Xylenol(1 oz).It works, been doing this for over 3 yrs. with excellent results. High fuel efficiency and cleaner running engine. The problem with ethanol,among many, is that water does not seperate in alcohol and is carried through your system resulting in much lower BTU. In regular fuel water settles to bottom, not with alcohol, it is carried along right to your injectors. Moon Shine in your fuel tank is a bad idea. Check out Brightgreen.com  interesting facts concerning this.

[flip]

We do see people come in/call in with sudden drops in fuel economy 10-20%.  The fuel companies, at least in this area, use a winter blend and summer blend.  Don't ask me whys or where's, I don't know if it is state mandated or federal or what.  The fuel economy anomoly will last for a few weeks then things will be ok for a while.  I don't think they have to tell you what % of ethanol is blended in as long as it is under 20%. 
From our experience in cars, you WILL notice an economy and performance difference, usually it is a loss of 20-25%.  I would not run over 20% in anything that is not flex fuel or e85 compatible, it's just a waste. 

[GF]

Nothing like paying the same price for E85 fuel compared to normal fuel with a decrease of 10-20% in milage. 

E85
    3.50 Gallon @ 27MPG = 12.9 Cents Per Mile

Gas
    3.50 Gallon @ 34MPG = 10.3 Cents Per Mile

According to my math there is no cost benefit to the consumer.

[Tom]

According to my math there is no cost benefit to the consumer.

As consciencous as the stores make you  believe that they are, I don't know of any who have the consumer in mind when they make these "business" decisions.  They just want your money and will put hands in all four pockets if they can.

Fuel prices haven't anything to do with the quantity of oil in the ground, only with what has been made available to the consumer.  The addition of alcohol has nothing to do with economy or ecology, only profit at the pump.

Fuel manufacturers from the well drillers to the retailers have a captured audience.  They know you have to have it and only two things will control the price, price restrictions by the Government and consumer pressure.  The Government has already shown that it doesn't want anything to do with price at the pump, so that leaves us.  Until we refuse to buy the stuff, they will get away with doing what they want.

If you had control of all of the air, what would you charge?



 
 

[Dan_Shade]

alcohol actually burns cooler than gasoline, and requires more fuel/engine stroke to balance the combustion cycle.  This is why fuel mileage is lower.  If you are properly compensating for the alcohol, you may see a very slight increase in HP.

[Haytrader]

My nephew put some Ethenol in my mill and we won't do that again. It does not run as well and there is what looks like dirt in the tank. That means the fuel filter will probably clog up sooner.

URRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGG!!!

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Cain't GET dirt from Ethanol. Had to be from the container it was held in.

[Luckyfarmer]

I have a 07 GMC flex fuel, it gets 2 or 3 less milage but I buy it for .50 cheaper.  Thats $15.00 savings per tank..I am all for this

[brdmkr]

Word is that if you can find e85 it is about 70 cents/gallon cheaper in GA.  I have an E85 truck that I would like to run on E85.  I was told by the dealer that I could expect 15% less mileage.

[GF]

E85 in Oklahoma is the same price as normal gas, all stations here advertise E85 with no cost cut.

Tom, I could not agree more.

According to my math there is no cost benefit to the consumer.

As consciencous as the stores make you  believe that they are, I don't know of any who have the consumer in mind when they make these "business" decisions.  They just want your money and will put hands in all four pockets if they can.

Also the fuel companies know it has effects on seals and gaskets, it maybe a good opportunity in the near future to file a class action lawsuit against the oil companies on behalf of all the citizens of the US, for the billions in profits they keep getting.  The only way to get their attention is to start getting their money.

[Haytrader]

Harold,

Didn't say it was dirt. Said it LOOKED like dirt.
I brought this to my nephews attention and he said it was part of the corn gas. He said thge local Co-op was getting a lot of complaints and quit ordering it.

So far it has caused no problems with the mill. I guess it is just staying on the bottom of the tank.

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Shoulda expanded on that statement, Merle. In using Biodiesel, the solvent effect from the lye and Methanol, cleans all the crap from the inside of the fuel tank and lines, in the vehicles. Probably getting the same thing from Ethanol. Didn't mean for that first part to sound like it did. 

[HORSELOGGER]

 Ethanol producers ( not farmers ) are given around 50 cents a gallon subsidy from the Govt. Sugar cane ethanol from Brazil is hit with a 50 cent per gallon tarrif to come in here. Without the Tarrif / subsidy, there would be very little if any ethanol produced from corn. I dont see it as a solution to the fuel cost problem, as some research showes it to be a net energy loss to produce the corn and convert it to ethanol.

If a sawmill could charge and get 400% more for the lumber they currently produce with out increasing their volume or capitol/labor investment...why wouldnt they? There is no incentive for the oil companies to do anything but take the money that is being thrown at them.   Why do more to make less?   The class action lawsuit in the name of US  citzens should , if anything, be against the US govt. How bout pokin some stinkin holes in the USA We need to see some serious leadership from congress on this issue.It is time to drill in Alaska, in my opinion.

I live right in the middle of Illinois corn and bean country. I drove by a farm 3 miles from me and saw the farmer chisel plowing up most of his house lawn that bordered his field. Lawn mowin dont pay like 6 buck corn.

[footer]

Real question now is they are not telling us they are putting ethanol in the E85, are they exceeding the 15% ethanol?   I am guessing they are putting more than 15%. 

E85 is 85% Ethanol. 15% is E15

[stonebroke]

In Albany NY you can get E85 for eighty to ninety cents cheaper than gas. Only one station handles it though.

Stonebroke

[sharp edge]

If you don't like the price of E- make your own. I keep thinking more about doing that all the time, as the price of gas keeps trying to get airborne.
SE

[olyman]

E85 will also do bad things to the valvetrain in your engine. Since it contains alcohol it burns hotter and will burn up your valves and seats. If your vehicle isnt set up for E85 its bad news!(quote)
 you have links, and reports from dyno and engine building places to prove this???  as dan shade said, and from racing cars--alcohol runs     COOLER   and carbs will frost over because of it--------

[flip]

If you plan on making E make sure it is E100 and for human consumption because it will cost you more to make than buy if you want to burn in a vehicle.

[GF]

My mistake instead of E85 I was referring to E10 (10% ethanol)l, I was thinking backwards when I submitted the topic. Sorry for the confusion, my mistake.  The E10 did not run very well in the sawmill, not sure if the 10% should make that much of a difference or if the fuel may have had more than the 10%. 

A majority of the stations that sell E85 in OKC area have the price set the same as regular gas.

[JSNH]

E10 thats what they put into the standard pumps in New Hampshire. No non alcohol fuel avalable in the normal channels.  My Still 361 rus the same on it. My Ford Freestyle millage dropped 10% from 22MPG to 20MPG. My 2004 Harley Road King with a carb has developed a cold running problem it skips unless I leave the enrichener open a bit when the temp is below 45 degrees. The alcohol has less energy per gallon in it so you use more fuel and have cold running issues in non fuel injected vehicles. I don't really see it helping me at all but I have no choice I have to burn what is for sale.

[GF]

Oklahoma just passed a law effective July 1st 08 that all gas stations that are mixing any Ethanol in the gas are required to have the pumps labeled reflecting this.

[Mooseherder]

Word is that if you can find e85 it is about 70 cents/gallon cheaper in GA.  I have an E85 truck that I would like to run on E85.  I was told by the dealer that I could expect 15% less mileage.

I have a 2008 e85  Chevy Impala.  It averages 24 miles per gallon. I've previously had 3 other Impalas that all got over 31 miles per gallon with the regular 3600 V6 motor.  These have all been company cars.  The fleet purchaser got fleeced.
On top of all that, I have never seen e-85 at any pump in the circles I travel in.   15%  to 20 % less mileage is almost criminal. 

[Left Coast Chris]

I have noteced out west here that if I buy cheap gas from Seven-11 or Beacon I get 16mpg combined highway/city in my Dodge 1500 2007 pickup.  When I buy from name brand quality stations at generally 20 cents more per gallon (Chevron, Shell, 76) I get 17.5 mpg.  I have tested this several times and it has held true.  It is well known Beacon has some prectentage of ethanol but I wish they would post the percentage then it would be out in the open.