counting trees

[mountaineer]

has anyone ever counted and documented the trees on their property? i was thinking about taking 1 acre and counting all trees bigger than say- 6dbh. the reason i want to do this is to see the percentage of different species and size. do you think this would be too overwhelming?
i think it would also give me a better understanding of my property.

[Jeff]

Onewithwood I do believe is in the midst of such a project

[Dodgy Loner]

I did it on 9 acres on my dad's property.  Measured every DBH larger than 4.5", measured the height of every tenth tree, and estimated the number of logs on everything that would make sawtimber or chip-n-saw.  Although the goal was to get an inventory for harvesting, I found several tree species on the place I didn't know existed.  It was pretty interesting, but time-consuming.  Took about 3 days.

[woodtroll]

Great idea. Count everything 2 inches and up. So you know what your stand will be. You should also watch your seedlings, see what they are and amounts.

Maybe mark specific trees to come back to over the years to see how they have grown.
It will take a bit of time but would be interesting.

[Mike_Barcaskey]

here's the species list from an Urban Tree Management Plan I did for a homeowners association. The initial count was over 1,600 trees, the largest tree inventory I have done to date. Every tree was classified as to size, condition and management needs. This is different than the Forestry Management Plans I write as these trees are managed for esthetics and increased property value and most are managed individually and a more diverse species population is desired.


Species               Count            Percentage


Acer (Maple)            394               21.4
Prunus (Cherry)            336               18.3
Fraxinus (Ash)            162                8.8
Quercus (Oak)            121                6.6
Robinia (Black Locust)         119                6.5
Tsuga (Hemlock)            74                4.0   
Crataegus (Hawthorne)         48                2.6
Thuja (Arborvitae)            45                2.4
Picea (Spruce)            41                2.2
Liquidambar (Sweetgum)      40                2.2
Pinus (Pine)               39                2.1
Malus (Apple)            34                1.8
Ailanthus (Ailanthus)         32                1.7   
Pyrus (Pear)               29                1.6
Betula (Birch)            24                1.3   
Sassafras (Sassafras)         21                1.1
Liriodendron (Tuliptree)         15                0.8
Cornus (Dogwood)         14                0.8
Rhamnus (Buckthorn)         9                0.5
Populus (Poplar)            8                0.4
Nyssa (Black Tupelo)         7                0.4
Magnolia (Magnolia)         7                0.4
Rhus (Sumac)            7                0.4
Lindera (Spicebush)         6                0.3
Juniperus (Juniper)            6                0.3
Morus (Mulberry)            6                0.3
Juglans (Walnut)            5                0.3
Fagus (Beech)            3                0.2
Taxus (Yew)            3                0.2
Carya (Hickory)            2                0.1
Aralia (Devil’s Walking Stick)      1                0.1
Koelreuteria (Golden Rain Tree)   1                0.1
Silax (Willow)            1                   0.1
Gleditsia (Honeylocust)         1                0.1
Sorbus (Mountain Ash)         1                0.1   
Ilex (Holly)               1                0.1   



This page last updated September 2007

[mountaineer]

how many acres was that mike? thats a lot of maples and cherries. i wish i had that many of those two. mine will read something like this

tulip poplar-50%
beech-20%
birch-20%
all the rest- 10%

[Mike_Barcaskey]

That was only about 12 acres. As a lot of small landscape trees had been recently planted everything was counted. here is the size distribution.
one big thing the Plan made apparent was to quit planting maples and ash


Tree Size Distribution
3 inches and under         321         17%
3 to 6 inches            374         20%
6 to 9 inches            447         24%
9 to 12 inches            311         18%
12 to 18 inches         288         15%
18 to 24 inches          88          5%
24 to 36+ inches          12          1%

[Mike_Barcaskey]

unfortunately most of those maples are Norway Maple, much of which was growing wild along the edge of common areas. I couldn't believe when I found out they were actually buying Norway Maple seedlings to plant in the landscape.

[mountaineer]

whats the easiest way to determine dbh? take circumference and divide by pi?

[beenthere]

You can do that, or buy a dbh tape. Has a hook on the end to stick to the bark.

Might find one at Bailey's (sponsor to the left).  Looked and see Bailey's combines their d. tape with log length tape. Expensive way to go, but gives more for the money.

Cheapest would be your plan...measure circumference, and divide by pi   

[clearcut]

A lot depends on how large your property is, how diverse it is, what you need the information for, and how accurate it needs to be.

If you measure all the trees on one acre - you get a great representation of that acre but not the property as a whole. If you spread that acre out into ten 1/10 acre plots ( a circle with a radius of 37.2') you get a better representation of the property as a whole. If you stratify the property, that is create a type map with forest stands that are very similar (age, size, species mix, history) and put plots into those types, you can reduce the variability within each type and achieve even greater accuracy for the property as a whole. Measuring enough plots within each type allows you to use statistics to assess how accurate those estimates are.

In other words you ramp up from simple and less accurate to complex but much more accurate.

The same is true for the tool used to measure diameters. A biltmore stick is simple and quick and sufficient for rough estimates of height and diameter. Calipers are quick but more accurate, and a diameter tape is slower but much more accurate.

 Consider measuring heights, or a least a sample of heights while measuring diameters. Height with diameter helps you estimate volume. Tools for height include the biltmore stick which has a Meritt Hypsometer, an angle gauge, clinometer, or laser based height finder. Again simple to complex, less to more accurate.

While you are out there running about you may want information on tree growth, site quality, insect and disease activity, etc.

[OneWithWood]

I am taking a break from inventorying my trees as I type.  Here is what I have decided to do on my 100 acres.

I measure every tree greater than 6" dbh.  I use a diameter tape because it is more accurate than the biltmore stick and relatively quick and easy.
I log each tree by species, diameter, feet of useable bole, number of clear faces of the first log, and note any defects or other attributes.  I also take a GPS reading after every so many trees so I have a clear idea of where in the woods the tree is.  I am learning a lot about the composition of my woods, the growing capacity, species density, terrain, etc.  I may even find a few more morel sites 
By logging everything 6" and up I get a very good understanding of what is in the midstory.  This is important to me so I know what will remain after a tree is harvested and what the potential is for any given species to continue or dominate.  I also make note of cull trees and wildlife den trees.  Saplings are noted but mostly I see where the deer have munched just about anything they can get to.
My inventory is a slow process because at the same time I carry a spray bottle of Garlon 4 and Ax-it.  I spray every autumn olive, multi-flora rose, ailanthus, pauwlonia, Japanese or Asian Honeysuckle and any other invasive I come accross.  I have also declared war on beech saplings growing up under my good oaks.  I leave the beech on the northern slopes to compete with the maples but I do not want an understory under my oaks shading out any new growth that might survive the deer.

A serious depletion of the deer herd is planned for this fall.

[SwampDonkey]

I did it for 25 acres of my lot last fall, found density, basal area, and volume by species  for trees 6 foot tall and up. Did it for areas I treated with a brush saw. I have a full scale plan that inventories the whole lot,  drainage and prescriptions, but i did this inventory for something to follow to see how things respond to thinning on my ground. As I was snow shoeing yesterday I saw how the snow was hard on some seedlings this past winter, breaking tops off. There's still 2-3 feet of snow to melt away. Have not seen any moose tracks since before Christmas up there. They'll soon be back down form the popple ground.

HERE'S THE CRUISE

[woodtroll]

Onewithwood
It's great your are taking the time to learn and observe your forest so intimately. Observing what comes next is vitally important. I would be curious to know what your mid-story is.
Are you checking growth rates?  How are you doing on oak seedlings and saplings?
How are the invasive plants affecting your desirable regeneration? Do you have garlic mustard?

[mountaineer]

onewithwood, you talk about beech on the northslope. my entire property is northfacing. would that effect the new growth after the property was cut 50 yrs ago? could that be why there are so many tulip poplars and beech trees? also someone said that tulip poplars are a quick growing "pioneer species"

[SwampDonkey]

Beech are very shade tolerant, more so than maples even. Up here, if you cut beech firewood out of a beech-maple forest, the understory will be over run by beech within 10 years. Your tulip tree is shade intolerant and grows fast to obtain dominance for light. Aspect may play a role in successful regeneration of tulip tree, don't know personally.

[mountaineer]

what do you men by aspect?

[Riles]

A south facing slope gets more sunlight than a north facing one (the aspect). In theory, your yellow poplar should regenerate better on the southern slope. Lots of variables here, though.

[mountaineer]

i can't imagine them doing better anywhere. lots of poplars. i just went to the top of the hill and looked down the south slope. seems to be more oaks over there. (i'm not that great with i.d. without leaves.) also a few dead ones on ground. burn baby burn. they will certainly help out my woodshed of mostly poplar.

[scgargoyle]

I've thought about trying to survey my 7 acres. I like the idea of taking 1/10 acre samples. Mine is almost all north slope, with oaks dominating (both red and white). There are a good number of poplars (they're easy to spot in the early spring) and a small number of hickories, maples, and sweet gum. Interestingly, there is no evidence of any beech, although they are common in the area. I have a few Virginia pines, which are going to get the axe (OK, chainsaw). The biggest challenge for me will be identifying all the trees!

[SwampDonkey]

Yeah, and it's just as easy to use a plot radius with a rounded number like 30 or 40 feet. Just use a compass and tie a ribbon at each point on the compass (N, E, S, W) to define the plot perimeter.

Here's some discussions that might help. You could use forum volume tables or from your state agencies that relate volume growth to site index. If your only interested in sawlog volume, then I suppose it's not too critical to use site indexed volumes. You just have to determine the length of the sawlog in the standing tree. But up here we use the whole tree length so we use site indexed volume. Site determines tree height.

[WDH]

The biggest challenge for me will be identifying all the trees!

We are here to help you .

[woodtroll]

Man, I go work in the field all day and check this board and don’t know which comment to address. Too many.
SwampDonkey
That works well for even aged or very consistent woods. A mixed sized or mixed aged stand needs more information for accuracy.  There can be a lot of variability in a mixed hardwood forest.
I would measure the trees, dbh as accurate as you would like. For me it is closest inch though two inch size classes are fine. I would do merchantable height. This depends on your local markets. By me, that would mean saw logs. So two foot increments with a minimum of 8ft.  Pulp sticks are different.  Figure the volume for each tree. Thiswould be your base for a per acre amount.
For site index I would measure the total height and age that tree. I have come to be vary leery of growth/volume projections based on SI tables. They seem good for general guides. Like good site vs poor site. But volumes have been way off of what a stand can produce.  By me 200bdft/yr/ac is common on the tables but I have a hard time finding that in the woods.
If annual diameter growth can be determined it is a big help. It tells you age of the tree, growth rates and what to expect.

Aspect or direction your slope is facing. 
Oaks like the dryer slopes, they like the moist north east slopes too but do better than the others on the dry slopes. Tulip grows great on your cooler/moist sites and sheltered coves. They will regenerate great with disturbance and light.
Beach do well in the shade, where I am they are worthless so they get left. They can be quite old compared to the fast growing poplar. It is typical to find stands with very old beech and large tall (younger)poplar.
Like WDH says we are here to help. Just start observing your woods it is a never ending education. That’s why I love forestry!
Last thought, what about using a 10 factor prism, variable plots?  Not good for thick young spruce but great for hardwoods.

[SwampDonkey]

My method works for even aged or uneven aged, doesn't matter. Your measuring diameter in a sample of each stand. Stands have to be differentiated and areas found. Your differentiating dominance of each tree in the sample and choosing volume tables based on site, you can't measure every tree unless your looking at a tiny parcel of land. Some people I find confuse basal area with volume and I've seen 38 m²/ha used for volume when the volume is actually 20 cords/acre, not 38. Makes a difference when your trees are immature and 40 feet tall versus mature and 80 feet tall even though both stands can have 38 m²/ha, one has 38 cords/acre and the other half that.

If your standard volume tables based on site indexes for your state are way out of whack, then the sampling the tables were based on was not too reliable. I've cruised enough woods even aged and uneven aged to know it is very accurate on total merchantable volume. The volume harvested verifies it, right quick. Making calls on whether a tree is a sawlog, veneer or pulp while standing is an art and I've never seen consistent reliable attempts to do it. Trees looks great on the outside, but had 3/4 heart when cut off the stump, so your veneer log just became a piece of pulpwood. High value products can only be accurately scaled when cut and inspected on the yard. No one up here will buy veneer and logs on speculation.

[woodtroll]

It is great to read about the differences in forestry and how it's done in different regions.

[SwampDonkey]

Well it's hard to explain the whole procedure in here unless you write a book, so you just hit the highlights.

[mountaineer]

i am trying to download a few pics. my pics are to big to download. is there anyway to make them smaller?

[Tom]

Go to Help at the top of the page and look for the photo instructions.  The link will take you to the post in Behind the Forum where their is a pretty good set of instructions.

[mountaineer]

so here is my first attempt at posting a pic. here are two shots of a piece of maple. does anyone know what kind of maple? i was told by the man that owned the tree that it was not red or sugar. my next guess would be silver, but i really have no idea.

[mountaineer]

it worked!!! it only took like three hours to figure it out. here is another tree i have cut up that is dead on ground and i don't know what it is.

[mountaineer]

and #3 is a tree that was 150yds from the 2nd one but looks a lot like #2 inside but the bark looks nothing alike.

[mountaineer]

wrong bark in last pic. here it is

[beenthere]

For me, pics are tough to identify from, but the first looks like walnut and the second like cherry.

Just a 'seat of the pants' guess. Or a WAG....

[Dodgy Loner]

The first pic appears to be a silver maple, but the bark is in kinda rough condition so it's hard to tell.

Second pic looks a whole lot like slippery elm.

Third is most definitely a black cherry.

Keep 'em coming

[SwampDonkey]

The first post looks like soft maple (red or silver) and the last is cherry. Are your maples in flower? I guess not if they are firewood. 

[WDH]

The second pic looks like hickory to me.  It split a little to clean to be elm, but it might be.  Looks like the old red hickory to me.  Now-a-days, it is considered a type of pignut.

[Lanier_Lurker]

Yep, the second one does look like hickory.

If the wood is *real hard* and causes sparks to fly off your chainsaw chain then it is probably hickory. 

And I agree with Dodgy (although he is the pro and you should listen to him over me any time  ), that black cherry bark is unmistakable.

[WDH]

Yes, unmistakable.

[mountaineer]

it cut pretty easy so it's probably not hickory i'll take a couple more pics that are a little better.

[OneWithWood]

Onewithwood
It's great your are taking the time to learn and observe your forest so intimately. Observing what comes next is vitally important. I would be curious to know what your mid-story is.
Are you checking growth rates?  How are you doing on oak seedlings and saplings?
How are the invasive plants affecting your desirable regeneration? Do you have garlic mustard?

To date I have counted 1331 trees 6" and up.  Here is a listing of the trees 561 >6" and <12" that comprise the midstory.  This is maybe 1/3 of the total woodlot.

Ash          17
Aspen        2
Basswood  1
Beach       94
Bl Oak         7
Butternut    3
Cedar          1
Cherry         7
Dogwood     2
Elm              4
Gum           10
Hickory        76
Persimmon    1
Tulip Poplar   54
Red Maple     97
Red Oak        18
Sassafrass     17
Sugar Maple 115
Walnut             3
White Oak       32

The overstory is stocked with a fair number of quality oaks but if I were to harvest those trees at this time the odds of oaks remaining a dominant tree in the canopy are very slim.  The beech and maples would take over I think.  I am actively killing most of the beech saplings under the oaks.

I will check in a few years to see what the growth rates are.

Oak seedlings and saplings are having a tough time.  There is good regeneration but the deer harvest them fairly intensively this time of year.  I have planted a few hundred red and white oak in the tops of the last trees harvested.  Those are protected and the deer have yet to find them.
As I count trees I spray invasives and beech saplings with Garlon 4 mixied in Ax-it.  The invasives I have are:
mulit-flora rose
japanese honeysuckle
autumn olive
japanese stiltgrass
japanese knot weed
ailanthus - just a few and I aim to keep it that way.
pawlonia - same as ailanthus
I may also eliminate a stand or two of spicebush

So far I have not found any garlic mustard or kudzu though both are within a mile of me.

Sorry it took so long to answer you.  I really thought I posted this a couple of days age but apparently all I did was type it out.....

I enter all this data into an excel spreadsheet and then use the table tools to analyze the data. 

We used to be able to attach spreadsheets to our posts.  I have forgatten how to do that so if it is still possible and anyone is interested I would be glad to post what I have so far.  All I need is for someone to tell me how to do it.  I tried the upload but I got an error message that .xlsx files were forbidden.

[Dodgy Loner]

Mountaineer - take a sharp knife and cut into the bark on #3.  If you can cut easily into the bark, and the cut surfaces are a rusty reddish brown, you've probably got slippery elm.  However, if the bark is rock-hard and difficult to cut, it's most likely a hickory.

I agree that the split is a little clean for an elm, but my own experience with splitting elm is that it's rather easy when the logs are small, but becomes exponentially more difficult as the logs get larger.  To me, the heartwood band looks too reddish and too wide to be hickory.

[Jeff]

I tried the upload but I got an error message that .xlsx files were forbidden.

Not forbidden, just never added as an extension as .xlsx files are the new version.  You can attach them now.

[OneWithWood]

Alrighty then 

Here it is for your viewing pleasure and constructive criticism:

Well, DanG - Here is the error message I got

File Name/URL Error Message
1. Tree Inventory 2008 data manip.xlsx Forbidden file extension.
2. Tree Inventory 2008.xls Exceeded filesize permitted by CPG

If anyone is interested I could attach it to an email

[SwampDonkey]

Looks to be a typical maple-beech-ash forest, only you have oak and hickory substituting for yellow birch.  With your ash, basswood, butternut and walnut you must have some moist gully areas or down slope flats with good lateral flow of water and percolation, but not really saturated lowlands on a landscape basis.

We only get cherry mixed with maple when there were firewood cuts to make big openings. Elm here will grow in red maple low land forest, but not in sugar maple dominated ridges. Possibly in gullies with fir and white spruce and cedar, but usually near the base section of the gully.

What was the density? Did you use a fixed radius plot? What radius? How many plots?

[OneWithWood]

Norman Upland to be precise.  Well drained ridge tops (White Oak) steep slopes with Red Oaks about midway down, Cherry in the ravine bottoms, ash, maple, beech scatterd throughout.

[SwampDonkey]

Sounds like what I envisioned, each region has there own land classification.  Surprised cherry is in the gullies, the other hardwood would tower above it up here. Only survives here in more open forest.

[mountaineer]

i cut into the bark and it seems pretty hard. when i look closely at the wood, the outer layer looks rotten or dead. (the white part.)  is the inner portion the heartwood? it looks to be in good shape its the outer area that is rotten or dead looking.

[SwampDonkey]

Yeah outer bark is dead, inner is live. Not heartwood, but phloem wood. A little deeper is cambium and deeper still is sapwood then heartwood where dead wood is, which tends to be darker. Sapwood  is confusing because it's xylem wood that conducts mineral salts and water up the tree and are living cells, but heartwood does the same only it is dead and more inefficient because of deposits that build up. The actual sap flows down the tree in the phloem between the cambium and outer bark.

[Lanier_Lurker]

To me, the heartwood band looks too reddish and too wide to be hickory.

Yep, the heartwood does not look quite right for hickory now that I look closer.  And the bark is kinda sorta close but not a dead ringer for hickory either.

If you say it "cut easily" then it might not be hickory.  If this wood has been down a while (as you suggest) and is not green - and if it were hickory - then there would be little doubt when you tried to cut on it.  That DanG stuff is *hard*. 

[SwampDonkey]

Yeah, W ash is hard but easy to split in comparison.

[mountaineer]

is this a tulip poplar sapling?  and here is another pic of the undetermined wood.

[Dodgy Loner]

The plant is a may-apple (Podophyllum peltatum).  Occurs mostly on rich slopes in hardwood forests.  The plants flower in May, and produce edible fruit that are said to taste like apples, hence the common name.

Regarding the unidentified wood, I think your new pictures raise more questions than answers...Let me scratch my head for a while

[SwampDonkey]

Sure looks like red maple, and it's now pithy or spaulted maple from rot. What appears to be ring porous is just early wood versus late wood. Sure, maple have pores but too tiny to see at a macro scale. I see that all through my wood pile.

[mountaineer]

so is that why they call it red maple because it's red inside? the silver maple that i have cut is white all the way through.

[Tom]

I'm not trying to name that wood, but a consideration might be Willow.  I have had black willow with straight grained, easily split wood with color like that when mature.

[mountaineer]

i just came from the spot where i cut the wood and there are several trees identical to the mystery tree. i will take some pics and as soon as they start budding i will take pics of those as well. there are a lot of oak leaves around that area. some with pointy ends and some with round ends. there are two other downed trees just like the one i cut up but are in worse shape.(maybe not worth firewood). just to note that these trees are on the south facing slope and i don't see any on the northface. it seems to be heavy(dense) wood and should be really good to burn. as far as the may-apple, i can't wait to try the fruit. looking forward to it. there are a lot of these growing near a spring coming out of the mountain. there is also a large tulip poplar beside the spring. this is probably why it is so large.

[Dodgy Loner]

Sure looks like red maple, and it's now pithy or spaulted maple from rot. What appears to be ring porous is just early wood versus late wood. Sure, maple have pores but too tiny to see at a macro scale. I see that all through my wood pile.

I very highly doubt that's a red maple.  The interlacing bark, the ring-porous grain (I'd bet money that we're seeing ring-pores and not just earlywood-latewood transition), and the heartwood just don't match up.  I'll save any future guesses until after I see the leaves on the live tree mountaineer found.

Mountaineer - just a word of caution: all parts of the may-apple are poisonous, except the fruit.  I'm sure you're smart enough not to go around eating random leaves and stems, but I didn't want to be the cause of any unnecessary gastrointestinal distress  .

[mountaineer]

thx for the warning. so no problem with the fruit though right?  hate to 
get sick. a little story.... when i lived at the beach a few years ago i worked construction with an older gentleman that was fairly wise about a lot of things. one day we saw a fruit hanging off a plant and he said it was blah blah.(can't remember) he said you could eat it and that they were good. now this guy isn't a bull...er and would not lie just for laughs. he said it was what he thought it was for sure. so i ate it. tastes sweet and pretty good. nothing happened and i lived through it. the next day he told me it wasn't what he thought it was and he had no idea what it really was. he was from greenville pa originally but we were both on the outer banks of nc. he remembered it from back home so i probably should have wondered since these two places are worlds apart. well anyway i lived so either i didn't eat enough to hurt me or it was ok to eat. so i am a bit more careful. oh and the mystery is hard to cut. when i cut further down the tree closer to the ground it got really hard to cut. almost like a dull chain but it was fine. really heavy wood too. just came back with a load. i saw a lot of nuts around the tree too. not acorns but another round nut. could it be walnut? it might be from a surrounding tree but they looked old and not fresh.(this year)

[SwampDonkey]

red maple is called that mainly because of fall foliage and also red flowers.

Our red maple is dark like that most of the time up here especially second growth. I don't see any interlock grain in the bark, all I see is annual rings in the bark.  Anyway, looking like red maple from a picture and being red maple are not necessarily in mutual agreement.     I haven't got any but slab wood left, all gone through the furnace. All I have is young limb wood left. I never saw American elm with sapwood that white before. But, I never saw other elm species.

Is there a gray or purple cast to the heart? I see both here in red maple, but when the wood is rotting like that piece looks to be, the heart is dark.

I guess I'll have to squint harder. 

[Dodgy Loner]

Pictures of the round nuts in question would help.  It's actually starting to sound more like hickory than anything else.  Walnut might be a possibility, but it has pretty soft bark that is chocolate brown when cut into.

[SwampDonkey]

Nuts? On a dead tree? Interesting onto itself. The hickory does sound plausible.

[mountaineer]

not on but around. in the vicinity. close enough for an idiot such as myself to go hmm .....

[WDH]

My first thought was mulberry, but the sapwood is a little too wide.  Hickory fits, especially the scaly form of pignut.  If those round nuts came from that tree, then the mystery is solved.  However, the spalting indicates that the tree has been dead a good while, so those nuts may be a red herring.

[OneWithWood]

I find mounds of acorns under maples without an oak anywhere close.  Our furry little friends and winged ones have a habbit of transporting nuts all over the place so it would be unwise to assume the nuts are from the nearest tree.

[SwampDonkey]

Ditto to the last two posts, I just didn't know how the phrase it, concerning the location of those nuts. 

[Dodgy Loner]

You can't be sure the nuts are from the right tree, but you also can't be sure that they're not.  I had the hardest time trying to get my students to be observant enough to look around on the ground for clues during dendrology labs, until the leaves fell off and they had little choice.  All possible avenues should be investigated, even if they turn out to be dead ends .

One dirty little trick I would pull occasionally was to quiz the students on a dead tree with no leaves or buds.  All they had to go by was the bark and the form.  The more observant students would always notice that there was a live specimen of the same species very close by, whose leaves and twigs could be easily observed .

[mountaineer]

hey dodgy you might want to make another post real quick like. look what number you're on

[beenthere]

Dodgy Loner
Your "dirty little trick" reminds me of forestry summer camp....in New Mexico...dry, 'park-like' ponderosa pine stand, and our Prof was on a soils class.
Object was to pair up, dig a soil pit about 2' deep, and use the knowledge gained from his teachings to classify the soil.
My partner and I dug our pit, filled out the field notes and figured we were done. He had to relieve himself so used the pit.

Didn't know the prof was going to cruise around among the pits and double check our work. When he got to our pit, he said "gather around boys, and come over here. As you can see the water table is up (I think there were still signs of bubbles in the bottom ) in this area, and the dark, damp soil is indicitave of that" (as he reached into the bottom of the pit and brought out a handful of mud, squeezing it in a ball like a farmer in his newly plowed ground. My partner and I were behind the nearest ponderosa laughing so hard our sides were splitting. Poor prof was clueless, but the other guys were catching on pretty fast.   

[Dodgy Loner]

 

(mountaineer - problem solved )

[Jeff]

 

[mountaineer]

hey dodgy are you teaching at uga? is it for your masters? (i see it says you are 24)

[mountaineer]

i have found several more dead mystery trees to cut up. when i split the wood it cracks easily and splits well but it tends to hold on to each other with the strings of wood. has a sour smell as well. as promised i will take pics as soon as they bud and i can get a good shot.

[SwampDonkey]

An unofficial forestry term comes to mind. pith maple aka red maple with spalt or heart rot, it's a local term I here a lot from firewood guys and irate home owners who thought they were getting rock maple.  The but log with curl can be twisty stuff to split.

[mountaineer]

here are three pics. one is of nuts directly under the mystery tree. another is a pic of the tree buds, (though not very close) and the other is three of the trees together. please don't shoot the deer in the pic cause thats my dog. 

[SwampDonkey]

Were the buds reddish, rounded to a tip and canted to one side? Get out your tree climbing gear.

[WDH]

Like I said, hickory  .

[Dodgy Loner]

hey dodgy are you teaching at uga? is it for your masters? (i see it says you are 24)

I taught a dendrology lab at UGA for three years.  Finished my Masters in December, so now I have a real job ( ...hmmm, I can't decide which emoticon is appropriate ).

The nuts are definitely pignut, and the coarseness of the branches also suggests hickory.  Looks like WDH called it!

[SwampDonkey]

Yip, he did.

But, I think there is more than one dead tree species.

[mountaineer]

so pignut hickory it is. what possibly killed them? seems there are a few dead. i do have several shagbarks on the property. they don't seem to be anything alike. thx yall