honey locust and tulip poplar

[mountaineer]

i don't think i have any honey locust here on my property. we have black locust though. i'm a big fan of it and would love to see some honey locust here as well. thinking about how to get some started. i know these trees have a different genus, but they seem to be very similar. and the more i look around , the more tulip poplar i see. i bet 90% of my trees are yellow poplar. i wish i had more variety. why would there be such a dominance of this one tree? i like em and all, but i like variety as well.   andy

[WDH]

Yellow poplar is a pioneer species that very successfully colonizes newly disturbed ground.  The seeds are easily dispersed and it is a prolific seeder.  It is intolerant of shade, like cherry, and will be one of the first trees to occupy a disturbed site.

So, if there are yellow poplar nearby an area that is freshly harvested or disturbed, it will be one of the first species to colonize the new ground. 

It sounds like that at some point in the past, your property was harvested or significantly disturbed (thinned, old field, etc) and the yellow poplar seed already in the duff or the seeds from surrounding areas did their job exceptionally well. 

[mountaineer]

i agree. it was probably cut  awhile back. how long do you think it would take for tulip poplars to get 20"dbh? are they fast growing? i do have a few nice shagbark hickories on the lot. wish i had more though. -andy

[WDH]

Yellow poplar is a fast grower on a good site, one of the fastest.  In my neck of the woods, you might get 20" DBH in 40 years with excellent management and timely thinnings.  That is probably best case, however.  50 to 60 years may be more representative.

[Norm]

Honey locust is very invasive here. It is much hated although I think the wood is nice in appearance. It has much longer thorns than your black locust and the wood properties are different also.

If you want some seed for it let me know, I have a few billion pods on my bottom crick timber.

[Lanier_Lurker]

Not only do they grow fast, but they get quite tall and can quickly dominate a canopy - to the detriment of other shade intolerant species.  And based on what I have seen, this goes double for yellow poplar stump sprouts.  My neighbor has 2 yellow poplar stump sprouts that grew about 8 feet just last year.

My house sits in the middle of a mid-slope stand of yellow poplar.  Most of the oaks and some of the hickories in the area have poor to fair form because the poplars dominate the canopy.  The oaks have twisted, forked, or leaned off axis significantly over the decades in pursuit of a spot in the lower canopy.  Every 2 to 3 years a big white oak or northern red oak will fall, partly (in my opinion) because of their poor form.

I have a small cluster of pines that has managed to keep pace with the poplars, and they are some of the tallest, straightest, most limb-free pines I have ever seen.  They are 90 to 110 feet tall and are clear up to 70 feet.

The largest yellow poplars in this stand are over 3ft dbh.  I figure they are 70 to 80 years old.

I would be interested in hearing WDH's musings on how the absence of chestnut in the hills of Appalachia has impacted yellow poplar - good or bad.

[Greg]

i don't think i have any honey locust here on my property. we have black locust though. i'm a big fan of it and would love to see some honey locust here as well. thinking about how to get some started. i know these trees have a different genus, but they seem to be very similar. and the more i look around , the more tulip poplar i see. i bet 90% of my trees are yellow poplar. i wish i had more variety. why would there be such a dominance of this one tree? i like em and all, but i like variety as well.   andy

Good question. Whoever suggested chestnut disappearing might explain alot.

When I think of blue ridge mountains I think of two things, white pine and The Waltons !

Seems like several different types of pines would be more prevalent in that area...

Also, I'd think twice about wishing for more honey locust. Be careful what you ask for you may get it ;-)

What's your local soil survey indicate as far as species with high growth index? I'd not heard of YP called a pioneer species before, but its does grow real fast and straight as an arrow, up here.

Greg

[Ron Wenrich]

Tulip poplar seeds can be viable for up to 7 years.  That's one of the reasons they take off when there is a cutting.  We don't require really hard cuts to get poplar growing.  Just an opening in a woodlot will be enough.  We have stands that are mixed oak, tulip poplar and ash.  All seem to get along pretty well, and usually the oak is exceptional.

As for honey locust, there are thornless varieties.  I've been told that farmers used to plant them along their pastures to provide shade for the cattle, and feed when the seed pods dropped. 

[WDH]

I would be interested in hearing WDH's musings on how the absence of chestnut in the hills of Appalachia has impacted yellow poplar - good or bad.

I have no data, only inference.  Yellow poplar was indigenous to the chestnut forests.  I am sure that the chestnut was a dominant species since it was not as shade intolerant, and given much time, would be a significant portion of the upper canopy.  With the blight killing the large dominant chestnuts, the yellow poplar had to benefit from the openings created by the dying chestnuts. 

That is the way nature does things.  What is bad for one species can good for another.  It has been said that cockroaches will inherit the earth .

[mountaineer]

one of the main reasons i like the locust is because it's such good firewood. i don't know of anything better. with so much yp on my property, it's hard to find good burning wood to mix in with the yp.

[Lanier_Lurker]

Yep, having nothing but yellow poplar to put in the fireplace might be a bit frustrating.  And you probably don't want to cut any of your oaks and hickories.

Do you get much deadfall or blowdowns?  If so, what kind of trees?

[mountaineer]

i lost a few big limbs during an ice storm this winter but other than that i dont have much on the ground. i have cut 3 nice size tulip poplars up and two locusts this spring/winter. also two beech trees. (all downed) i have several nice trees on the top of the hill but it will be extremely difficult to get there.

[woodtroll]

Honey locust can be purchased as bare root stock.  It is also a pioneer species. It can quickly take over old pasture land and grows well in protected cove conditions. They burn great and have beautiful wood. I would not plant one though. The Latin name means thorn upon thorn, which can be six inches long with thorns coming off the side. They are one of the most hated trees by farmers in my area. You plug a few tires or ruin some rubber boots and you may feel the same.
Black locust burns almost as well, splits easy and does not have big thorns. If you have it already, it can be maintained from root sprouts. It is short lived (70 years or so). It can develop in a disturbed under story, makes great fence posts. But it does smell like rotten pumpkins.
Enjoy your good poplar, talk about a lot of fast volume per stem.
Maybe burn the beech.
The good news with honey locust it will not dominate your forest in 20years, (old fields maybe, forest no.).