Author Topic: Shopping for Dozer (Read 5304 times)

Dave Steele · « **on:** March 28, 2008, 06:52:41 pm »

I am just a forest landowner-not making a living with equipment and do not need to be moving large quantities of dirt and stone in a short period of time. I need a dozer to maintain 1.5 miles of existing log road for access by a chipper and tractor trailers. I also need to build 2 miles of road but it will be relatively easy pushing in shale of a reclaimed strip job. I will also then be using it in the woods 200 hours per year max. I will use it and sell it in ten years. I have looked at several ca 1980 that are easily big enough with the right features:
JD 450B, C, & D: Diesel; all with the Forestry Package and 6-way hyd. blade at prices from $11-20,000. and would prefer not to spend (finance) much more than that.
Am I on the right track? Any advice on these machines, dozer buying, or other suggested makes/models greatly appreciated.

Gary_C · « **Reply #1 on:** March 28, 2008, 07:12:29 pm »

Best advice I can give you is to have a professional look at the machine before you buy. It's easy to drop $20 K on track maintenance. Look at some newer Komatsu's for good buys.

Also keep in mind that older machines may not have much resale value in ten years. It may be more economical in the long run to buy a newer machine, plus Cats seem to hold their resale better. Even with a higher investment you may be better financially to invest more.

The other alternative is to lease short term. You can lease a like new Cat D5G for about $1320 per week (40 hours) and you can do a heck of a lot of road building in a week.

Ed_K · « **Reply #2 on:** March 28, 2008, 07:42:40 pm »

Maybe rent/lease a good sized dozer and do the road building,then buy an old motor grader to maintain the roads. Tracks on the ground cost $$$.

Gary_C · « **Reply #3 on:** March 28, 2008, 08:11:00 pm »

I just checked the recent Richie Bros auction in MN and there were two Komatsu's, one a 1998 D41P-6 for $23K and a 1998 D37P-5 for $20K.

crtreedude · « **Reply #4 on:** March 28, 2008, 08:39:07 pm »

As long as they are available I would rent. Here, getting a backhoe and an operator has become an act of God since there is so much work around. Now, you have to commit to a week of work.

So, we just bought one - and hired an operator...

shinnlinger · « **Reply #5 on:** March 28, 2008, 09:56:49 pm »

If you are still thinking of a JD 450, get a C or newer...they have wet clutches, but I second looking at some of thoe asian machines as well.

I think monthly rates might be even better rates for the rental deal and could be the way to go, renting the best machine for the job at hand.

that said, I looked into renting an excavator but ended up buying a good used one and have been very pleased with my decision. It has proven very handy in far more ways than I could have imagined, far more often than I could have imagined. This weekend for example it is going to be lifting my purlings (if the weather holds)

A machine always at your disposal ensures you will get far more things done, provided of course you have the time and inclination to use it

arojay · « **Reply #6 on:** March 28, 2008, 10:09:04 pm »

If you are a hoe operator or inclined that way I think they are the most versatile machines around but not much for plowing snow etc.. Some good alternatives have been offered here. I would agree with Gary C about Cats. I have a Deere dozer and they are expensive to repair in time or money and older ones are hard to find parts for. Renting the dozer for roadbuilding and getting something else for maintenance is a good alternative. I have used wheel loaders with a makeshift blade and a tire drag made from old equipment tires for packing snow roads. Works ok, and you could have a bucket or other attachments as well. Chains for at least one axle should be considered though.

scsmith42 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 28, 2008, 11:04:03 pm »

I have spent a significant amount of time on both John Deere 450 and 550 machines, and I would recommend a 550 with a 6 way blade over the 450. It will just do more work.

A set of tracks for a 550, (excluding shoes), is about 9K. Stay away from any models with a Powershift transmission; they cost a fortune to rebuild!

Ditto the comments re Komatsu's being a good value.

Based upon your needs, I second the suggestion to rent the dozer in order to build the roads, and to buy a grader to keep them up after that. Much faster, and less costly maintenance than the dozer.

Scott

Dave Shepard · « **Reply #8 on:** March 29, 2008, 12:56:23 am »

Great advice so far, only thing I'll add is don't buy a Cat D9, at $4000 a move, that'll get costly in a hurry.

A friend of mine just got one, it'll push 22 yards with the U blade.

And, Welcome to the Forum!

Dave

cuttingman423 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 29, 2008, 01:09:55 am »

http://www.struckcorp.com/

check out these machines and request info and dvd at first i thought they were to small to do anything but for a smaller dozer /backhoe they are mighty little machines .
Hope this helps you out.

timberfaller390 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 29, 2008, 02:44:40 pm »

here in the north georgia hill country we use JD 350 400 450 and 550's for about every thing from firefighting to logging the 350 just doesn't have enough beef to be good for much and are hard to find parts for the 400's are basicly 350's with a 450 engine and you can't find parts for them the 450 is a good dozer but for road building the 550 is the way to go. You said you were looking at some 80's model machines to use and then sell in 10 years. If you buy a twenty year old tractor figure in maintanance for ten years plus trying to track down parts assuming they are still available in 5 or 6 years, when it is 30 years old you will be hard pressed to find someone to haul it off for you. Don't get me wrong I know alot of guys that run 30 40 and even 50 year old machines but they don't understand how much overhead thier "cheap" older machine is costing them in high priced hard to find parts. Just to build and maintain a few miles of road I would rent a dozer because most of the rental rigs are newer with envriomental cabs and if it were me I couldn't justify all that money for a piece of equipment that will only get run 200 hours a year.

Sprucegum · « **Reply #11 on:** March 29, 2008, 04:27:02 pm »

I'm on the other side of the fence this time

I priced out a dozer to rent - they wanted $600. a day and I had to pay for delivery besides

So I bought an old D4 for $6000. If it runs for 10 days its paid for itself

Three more days work and its free

beenthere · « **Reply #12 on:** March 29, 2008, 04:36:13 pm »

Looks good. What projects you workin on with it?

It has a pony motor to start it?

TeaW · « **Reply #13 on:** March 29, 2008, 05:27:25 pm »

Dave , your plan looks good to me.I did the same thing as you are thinking of --30 years ago but it was a 350 JD and I ended up keeping it 25 years. You will end up doing alot of smaller jobs with it that you would't bother to hire a machine for. I payed $8500 and sold it for $4500. It was a far better investment than some I have made.

Corley5 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 29, 2008, 09:09:30 pm »

Quote from: Sprucegum on March 29, 2008, 04:27:02 pm

I'm on the other side of the fence this time I priced out a dozer to rent - they wanted $600. a day and I had to pay for delivery besides So I bought an old D4 for $6000. If it runs for 10 days its paid for itself Three more days work and its free

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Nice Cat

I missed out on one about like it a few years ago. I drug my feet and somebody else snatched it up. It was a 1953 with direct electric start, and nice tracks etc. The hydraulic pump was slow on it but Cat had kits to rebuild it. Coulda had it for two grand

pineywoods · « **Reply #15 on:** March 29, 2008, 09:25:20 pm »

I bought on of them small chinese forestry dozers, used and cheeep. Guy says it won't turn left, won't back up, and the hydraulics is funky. Spent $105 and now I have a pretty nice small 30 hp diesel dozer with 6 way blade, 3 pt hitch and pto. Just about right for road building. If I sold it for scrap, I'd come out OK.

Sprucegum · « **Reply #16 on:** March 29, 2008, 11:47:59 pm »

So far all I have done is plow a lot of snow

This summer I will fix the road a bit , skid some logs , maybe even hook it to the old circle mill and see what happens

WH_Conley · « **Reply #17 on:** March 30, 2008, 12:06:15 am »

Buddy of mine has a "67, I beleive, D6, newely rebuilt, one end to the other. He has done work for me before the rebuild, excellent machine. From what he told me, if you got the serial #, Cat's got the parts. Other side of the same coin I bought a D3 a few years back for a low price, asked the guy a couple of monyhs later "where is my dozer", replied, " the guy was in jail".

. Didn't bother to tell him that I was going to run the serial # before I paid fore it.

Brian_Rhoad · « **Reply #18 on:** March 30, 2008, 12:59:40 am »

Quote

I bought on of them small chinese forestry dozers, used and cheeep. Guy says it won't turn left, won't back up, and the hydraulics is funky. Spent $105 and now I have a pretty nice small 30 hp diesel dozer with 6 way blade, 3 pt hitch and pto. Just about right for road building. If I sold it for scrap, I'd come out OK.

Pineywoods, I have a Chinese 30 HP dozer I use for logging. It also has a left steering problem. What did you have to do to repair yours? Mine has the hydraulic reverser clutch, which is nice. I have a Farmi winch on the back for skidding. Nice little machine. It gets around better than a skidder.

talltimber · « **Reply #19 on:** March 30, 2008, 11:50:27 am »

You'll never go wrong with an 450 JD. The one in the photo had 17000 hrs on it before we had to rebuild the engine (the only reason that had to be done is because an oak limb jill poked the through the engine guarding and got the oil filter). We did put several under carriages on it during that time. They are just about as bullet proof as they come and the perfect size for a small woodlot owner. We spent more money on our 550 JD powershift the first 7000 hrs than we did through the life of the 450. The only drawback is price, around here you'll spend from 15 to 20k to get a good one, on the other hand if you take care of it, its probably the last one you will have to buy for what your doing.

Don K · « **Reply #20 on:** March 30, 2008, 01:02:32 pm »

Welcome to the Forum, talltimber.

Don

Coon · « **Reply #21 on:** March 30, 2008, 01:43:37 pm »

Welcome to the forum Tall Timber. Those are some nice looking logs. Where abouts are you located?

talltimber · « **Reply #22 on:** March 30, 2008, 02:11:37 pm »

Those are Fom the Coast Range Mountians East and a little South of Tillamook, OR. Somewhere I have some unscanned photos of skidding those with the little 450 JD, we had to bridal 3 chockers to get around some of them. The 450 looks tiny in front of those logs, the funny part is what you can't see in the photo is our D-5 behind pushing, i'll see if I can find them and scan them in.
Here is one more of the same logs. These photos were taken in 1974/5
Me smilin now that the work is done and its

time

floorboy · « **Reply #23 on:** March 30, 2008, 02:19:49 pm »

I have worked both the cat and the JD. Both machines are well build. The 350 Jd is definitely under powered for any kind of serious work. Both companies stock parts for a long time. The 350 needed transmission parts jd was able to order in about 3 days.

pineywoods · « **Reply #24 on:** March 30, 2008, 03:19:15 pm »

Brian the fix for the steering problem cost nothing to fix. Previous owner had always left it outside. There's a big shaft that goes through the final drive housing and pulls a brake band around the steering clutch housing. That shaft had rusted and seized in the housing. Lots of rust reaper and a big hammer finally broke it loose. Mine also has the hydraulic reverser and that was where the reverse problem was. Previous owner had broken the actuator arm on the left side of the clutch housing. The replacement arm was too long, therefore the actuating cylinder didn't have enough stroke. Adjusting the linkage so you had forward killed reverse. I pulled the arm off and drilled a new hole for the linkage pin. Hydraulics was a bit more complicated. When the hydraulic clutch was engaged, there wasn't enough capacity left to raise the blade. I put a splitter valve on the output of the pump. Splits a single circuit into two independent circuits, neither can steal all the hydraulic flow. One goes to the clutch control valve, the other to the blade controls. Biggest problem was finding all the adapters and plumbing to hook the 3/8 pipe thread connections on the splitter into the funky chinese stuff.
I've got a winch to put on mine. Came off a D5 cat. That oughta be big enuff

I had a water pump go out. They are repairable. plus I got up on a stump and broke off the oil filter. Had a lot of trouble with throwing tracks, off the drive sprocket. I can usually put a track back on in about 15 minutes.

zopi · « **Reply #25 on:** March 30, 2008, 03:27:43 pm »

buddy of mine is a foreman for a large prime contractor here...his well held opinion is that you can't go wrong with Cat on tracks...they buy nothing but
lightly used D4's...heavy enough to work and light enough to move...

I sure would like to have one for an afternoon at the house....got some brush I want gone...

Dave Steele · « **Reply #26 on:** March 31, 2008, 05:56:45 am »

What year is your 450; how many hours on it now; and what have you replaced on the undercarriage? Great photos of all your equipment.

Dave Steele · « **Reply #27 on:** March 31, 2008, 06:16:26 am »

Talltimber- I see that you replaced undercarriage several times (working on my first cup of coffee here and can't read yet).

talltimber · « **Reply #28 on:** March 31, 2008, 11:28:44 am »

Quote from: Dave Steele on March 31, 2008, 06:16:26 am

Talltimber- I see that you replaced undercarriage several times (working on my first cup of coffee here and can't read yet).

Don't remember the year, but we bought the dozer used (3100 hrs) that photo was taken in 76/77 and we had the machine for 2 yrs. I wish I still had it for my 30 ac x-mas trees farm. One of the best machines I have ever owned.

thecfarm · « **Reply #29 on:** March 31, 2008, 02:44:48 pm »

talltimber,welcome to the forum.I almost missed your nice pictures.I don't have a dozer,but I could use one.So I don't look at a thread like this one.How about putting these pictures in this thread,

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,13313.0.html

If you have not seen read this thread it will keep you busy for a while.I always like to see logging pictures. I really like big logs.

talltimber · « **Reply #30 on:** March 31, 2008, 02:52:09 pm »

Quote from: thecfarm on March 31, 2008, 02:44:48 pm

talltimber,welcome to the forum.I almost missed your nice pictures.I don't have a dozer,but I could use one.So I don't look at a thread like this one.How about putting these pictures in this thread,

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,13313.0.html

If you have not seen read this thread it will keep you busy for a while.I always like to see logging pictures. I really like big logs.

I will add to that thread, I missed that one and looking at I'll be spending some time there
thanks Joe

Coon · « **Reply #31 on:** March 31, 2008, 08:52:31 pm »

You have some very nice pics of the past. Looks like you have a long history in the logging business.

talltimber · « **Reply #32 on:** March 31, 2008, 11:26:56 pm »

Longer than I care to admit! Between logging and the oil field, getting out of bed in the morning has become a chore in itself

News:

Author Topic: Shopping for Dozer (Read 5304 times)