Ax Men - Are they also Hiking Men?

[mdvaden]

I had an odd thought tonight watching the Ax Men on History Channel - which by the way, was cool the way they launched the episode with Jimmy Hendrix for a dramatic feel.

But for all the time they spend leveling the forest, crushing the shrubs and mucking on the logging roads, how many of these loggers are hikers? Outdoorsmen that enjoy a nice forest?

Are these guys so burnt out from cutting trees, that they don't enjoy protected forest?

Or are there a bunch of them that enjoy a nice state park or natural forest.

It's not like they need to share tree-hugging, but somehow I get the feeling that their daily work influences their off-time activity and how they view forests.

And maybe in different ways.

Anyone know what the recreational mentality of these type of workers is?

[Paul_H]

Tarring with some fairly broad strokes there.

[Furby]

Agreed!

BUT....... I just watched Modern Marvels: Alaska Fishing episode and one fellow said that after 12 years on that factory boat, he eats very little fish.

[Paul_H]

There is a large group of loggers here in Pemberton that have worked closely with DFO for years building and maintaining hatcheries and other stream work as volunteers

I'm trying to figure out if the first post was made out of ignorance,arrogance or wide eyed wonderment.

[Gary_C]

I missed tonights episode so I really do not know where you are coming from with that "guys so burned out from cutting trees" comment.

I am a logger and there are many ways I enjoy a forest from bringing sunlight to a forest floor, walking and driving thru the forest, and from enjoying the warmth and comfort of my home that was built from trees from those forests.

I wouldn't say I am burned out but I sure am tired at night and sleep very well. 

But maybe I do not know what a "nice" or "protected" or "natural" forest truly is. Could you define that for me?   

[mdvaden]

There is a large group of loggers here in Pemberton that have worked closely with DFO for years building and maintaining hatcheries and other stream work as volunteers

I'm trying to figure out if the first post was made out of ignorance,arrogance or wide eyed wonderment.

Maybe you are over-thinking it?

It's almost a yes or no answer.

If I don't work in logging, it would have to be a question of ignorance. And there is no point supplying answers I don't have.

On the other hand, since I have grown up in this half of Oregon, it's not ignorance to say that I've never met a logger while hiking or camping. But I see no need to base an answer off just that observation alone.

I missed tonights episode so I really do not know where you are coming from with that "guys so burned out from cutting trees" comment....

But maybe I do not know what a "nice" or "protected" or "natural" forest truly is. Could you define that for me?   

By burned out, I mean a hard days work. I was wondering if it was the reverse of how some guys work in an office most of the day, get tired from work, but would rather do something outdoors when they get home, than stay indoors, whether go for a walk in the park, mow the lawn, etc..

But overlapping this, I was curious about whether their particular daily "natural" environment, influenced how they feel about getting out into the wild.

As far as your question about "nice" or "protected", what I had in mind was established forests and trails set aside for recreation. Saddle mountain trail, Eagle Creek, Neahkahnie mountain.

Maybe there is a simpler way to express and answer this:

For anyone who understands and has been around loggers, in general, do you find that they enjoy the outdoors and hiking as much as other folks in the general populace - do they like camping at Nehalem Bay, hiking Eagle Creek trail, walking around the Olympic National Forest?

But almost any way we look at it, these guys are "in the woods". And maybe their daily workshift of in the woods caps their desires for the outdoors.

As a hypothesis, I would guess that whereas being in an office would make someone outdoors-hungry for a hiking trail, that working in a wooded area would leave someone less nature-hungry in regards to getting out and away.

[Gary_C]

Perhaps you should consider that loggers do not get "burned out" because they enjoy what they do and if they feel a need to relax, they can just shut off the saw or machine and just sit and enjoy for the moment all the beauty of the forest around. No need to take a walk, they are already where you long to be. 

But then again, I should not be telling everyone this because it may get to DanG crowded out there.   

[Jeff]

On the other hand, since I have grown up in this half of Oregon, it's not ignorance to say that I've never met a logger while hiking or camping.

Have you ever met a Vegas show girl while camping? A crab fisherman?  A proctologist? A Mechanic? A salesman? How do you know? How many loggers out there wonder why they have never met an arborist camping?  Probably none. Its a big world and if we're out and about enjoying it, we are probably not focused on the occupations of those around us or really even care.   Loggers don't look like Paul Bunyan and probably don't wear suspenders and hard hats and don't wear labels that I know of other then those that others may try to paste on them.  Unless you walked up to every person you ever saw in the woods while you were out and asked them what they did for a living, then how would you know.  You might have been in the middle of a whole nest of em...

It's not like they need to share tree-hugging, but somehow I get the feeling that their daily work influences their off-time activity and how they view forests.

I can see Paul's wondering why such a question. Whether it was meant to or not, it seems to infer a bunch. Its almost like you have loggers painted in your mind to be involved in some sort of destructive behavior that would negatively effect the things that you enjoy by comparisons in their work environment to a park setting.

But for all the time they spend leveling the forest, crushing the shrubs and mucking on the logging roads, how many of these loggers are hikers? Outdoorsmen that enjoy a nice forest?

To someone that worked in the woods, the way you painted your question was offensive. The basic question without all the loaded adjectives would not be.

"Do guys that work in the woods everyday get tired of being in the woods and not enjoy it any longer?"

That's my question above. I already know the answer because I've worked around and with hundreds of them.

No. They don't get tired of it and most certainly enjoy it and appreciate it and understand that its ALL a nice forest.

[Arich]

Perhaps you should consider that loggers do not get "burned out" because they enjoy what they do and if they feel a need to relax, they can just shut off the saw or machine and just sit and enjoy for the moment all the beauty of the forest around. No need to take a walk, they are already where you long to be. 

But then again, I should not be telling everyone this because it may get to DanG crowded out there.   

x2 for me there Gary. A huge part of the reason that I work in the woods is because of the amount of time I get to spend in the woods. Solitude is a beautiful thing.

[Cedarman]

I've worked outdoors my whole life. When I get tired of cutting trees, I wonder what is over the hill and head out.  I hike for enjoyment anywhere I can. I even go underground in caves.  The loggers I know like the outdoors. 

My bet is that most loggers like the view of a pristine woodland and most don't figure the footage in dollars and cents. Many look at it as, "I wonder how the hunting is here"? They look at it with enjoyment. When I see a big tract of cedar, I don't necessarily go into business mode.

[Phorester]

Most loggers in my area are outdoors oriented.  Most of what I hear them talking about is hunting and fishing, mostly in their own locality.  One I know goes deep sea fishing a couple times a year.  One talked to me about the good time he had the previous Sunday with his family on a picnic on the Skyline Drive.

I know as a Forester - granted, not the in-the-woods hard physical labor day after day as a logger -  I still enjoy the woods in my off time.  Hunting, fishing, camping, hiking.

[SeeSaw]

Jeff you sure nailed it with your comment of being offensive with the way the statement was worded with all the adjectives.  Maybe it was not meant that way?? However, that's exactly how I took it whether it was meant that way or not.  Before I even read to the bottom of the post.

"But for all the time they spend leveling the forest, crushing the shrubs and mucking on the logging roads, how many of these loggers are hikers? Outdoorsmen that enjoy a nice forest?"

I don't know about most loggers but I'm guessing that they enjoy the forest just as much or more as any one of us do.  Personally, I love my woods for many reasons. Hunting, Hiking, watching the wildlife etc.  But I also harvest trees from it as well.  It's not just for a single purpose!!

[Roxie]

Actually, if you go to Stump Branch Loggings website, they have a category of pictures called, "In the Woods" and they are breath taking.  Those pictures have only to do with the incredible beauty of woods and nature.  I'd say that based on those pictures, they appreciate it. 

[twobears]

 i guess you missed the part where one of those ax men was talking about losing a good friend in a logging accident..maybe,because that tough guy was crying you missed it where he said he and his son took off for a couple of days and spend time in the woods just relaxing to try and get over the lose of a good friend.
 just because a man cut trees down doesn,t mean the wood isn,t important to him and or he doesn,t wanted be that..i worked in the woods for years and i also spend alot of time just relaxing in the woods on my days off.i log it because i enjoy being outside and i enjoy hard work..i also enjoy keeping the forest healthy...yes,healthy..it seems good to go back into ares i logged a few years later and seeing a nice healthy forest.
 i think alot of these tree hugger types need to take lessons on what a healthy forest is.i live in new york sate and we have a 6 million acre so-called forever wild state park..i live the idea of protected land ..protected from development but,it makes me sick to see such a waste of timber..if millions of rotting trees is a good thing i must be missing something because i,de much rather see controlled logging cut in there and have nice healthy trees.
 i used to go for a canoe ride every sunday in the good weather..i,de paddle up a wild rver about two miles.then,i,de hike thur a very nice stand of black cherry trees.that area was logged at one time and there was some very nice cherry..there was MILLIONS !!! of dollars of timber growning there...but,theres no logging allowed..one saturday morning the wind blow for 15 minutes and it all went down.now,all i can do is paddle up the river and stand on the bank.i can see for miles and most every trees is gone.theres trees piled 30 feet high..what,a waste...but,the tree hugger types think that the way it should be..i wonder if they know how many whitetailed deer died in those blow downs..we logged blowdowns outside the park and in the winter we found alot of deer that got trapped in the blowdowns and died...i logged forest is a healthy forest and non-logged forest is dieing a slow death.
 i,ve been out west and seen the clearcuts..ya,they don,t look pretty,but,go into those cuts a few years after there logged and see whats there..a fresh batch of new trees,healthy trees!! and all kinds of wildlife..whats in old growth timber?? a couple spotted owls??
 i worked on a 11 acre clearcut here once..man,talk about take heat..the locals got down right rude..i took the time to explaine why we did it and they had a big change of heart..it was planted in norway spruse(junk trees) now,it,s 11 acres of nice white pine.which came up on there own after we got rid of those junk/four to six stems per trunk,nothing but limbs norways.

 delbert

 PS:to answer your ??,,every logger i know spends his free time in the woods,,fishing,hunting,fur trapping,camping,canoeing,ect,ect,ect and we enjoy watching the sun come up and set,we really enjoy being outside on those nice bluebird days when,all the inside workers are wishing they where outside instead of behind a desk or in a factory.

[snowman]

I'm not going to do the broad brush thing and say every tree higging enviro lives in some big city in a condo with no tree in sight but I will say most loggers including myself do this brutal dangerous work because 1, we love being in the woods all day and 2, because we like to live in a small town in a rural area, not in NYC , LA, SF etc. Now, WHO is it that really loves nature?

[Ron Scott]

I work with a lot of loggers and most of our conversations on a regular basis are about hunting, fishing, camping, and the forest landscape. Most can't wait to get their days work done and then go hunting or fishing with their kids depending upon the season. Many of our recreation infrastucture of hiking , ORV, and snowmobile trails have been developed by the loggers during their timber harvesting operations.

They are an asset to implementing "multiplel use management" of the forests.

[mdvaden]

Jeff you sure nailed it with your comment of being offensive with the way the statement was worded with all the adjectives.  Maybe it was not meant that way?? However, that's exactly how I took it whether it was meant that way or not.  Before I even read to the bottom of the post.

Paul H's reply including the hatchery, or Roxie's reply about the photo albums are what would be hitting the nail on the head.

Hitting the nail on the head, is the answer to the question. And those answered the question (in relatively concise posts too).

Another example of hitting the nail on the head, is Ron Scott's reply about regular basis discussions of hunting, fishing, camping, etc..

That's exactly what I was asking about.

Furby's reply about the fisherman and fish, hit the nail on the head, because it was an illustrative answer.

i guess you missed the part where one of those ax men was talking about losing a good friend in a logging accident..maybe,because that tough guy was crying you missed it where he said he and his son took off for a couple of days and spend time in the woods just relaxing to try and get over the lose of a good friend.

That's partially nailing it on the head. The answer part.

The "guess" part is speculative, since the original post is right in front of you. I did not ask about one or two or a few specific loggers shown in the video. The video merely inspired a question. The question is broad-based about loggers in general.

[Tillaway]

For anyone who understands and has been around loggers, in general, do you find that they enjoy the outdoors and hiking as much as other folks in the general populace - do they like camping at Nehalem Bay, hiking Eagle Creek trail, walking around the Olympic National Forest?

Camp at Nehalem Bay, sure, while you fish there.  Hike Eagel Creek trail,  if your girl friend wants to.  Walking around Olympic National Forest, that seems to be required while hunting.

One reason this lively hood appeals to them is that they are outdoors.  They will see things everyday that most folks only hope to see on their occasional hike or summer camping trip.  The very nature of the work fullfills this desire. 

[SeeSaw]

I did not mean to rile you or offend you if I have. I'm just in agreement with Jeff's comment that maybe your statment could have been worded differently as it seems to infer that loggers have a very negative impact on the forest.  That's literally how I took it whether it was intended or not.  That's it!!

[mdvaden]

I did not mean to rile you or offend you if I have. I'm just in agreement with Jeff's comment that maybe your statment could have been worded differently as it seems to infer that loggers have a very negative impact on the forest.  That's literally how I took it whether it was intended or not.  That's it!!

I understand you...

But the opening should be fine either way.

Consider landscaping for example: Aside from maintaining finished landscapes, design / build installation workers spend 95% of their days gutting old plants from yards, working in dirt or soil, moving rocks, raking debris for lawns, etc.. Basically, it's the last fragment of the installation that's even green and pretty, when the sod and barkdust go down. Most of the time is spent putting pipe in trenches, glueing PVC, backfilling rootballs.

So if I were to refer to landscape installation as "working in trenches, moving dirt, culling old plants and moving rock", there is no way that would be offensive. Aside from a few niches, for the bulk of full-scale installation, the descriptions would be "dead-on-balls-accurate".

The description does not degrade the final product and skill level.

Since I was referring to "logging" which the show has covered a lot of, hopefully people don't think I intended "forestry" which is a broader umbrella.

Within my own trade, I can't say that landscape installs affect my mentality about forests. Although I integrate a mimicking of forests into landscaping. But I do realize that the nature of landscape installs makes me dislike the installation phase compared to working in the growing developing phase.

So as far as what you wrote, no offence intended and no offence taken.

[Paul_H]

mdvaden,

I viewed your website and understand your need to get out into a real forest once in awhile.Your work demands a clean slate to begin and even though you apparently detest destruction of the natural enviroment,your business depends on it.

[Tom]

As a hypothesis, I would guess that whereas being in an office would make someone outdoors-hungry for a hiking trail, that working in a wooded area would leave someone less nature-hungry in regards to getting out and away.

That's why Hypothetical arguments seldom work.  I spent 20 years in the bowels of a computer room and in an office with no, or few, windows.  Since leaving that industry in 1988 and spending more time fishing and most of my time sawing, I have had absolutely no desire to take off for a day or so and go sit in an office or hide out in a computer room or take 15 minutes at a coffeepot.

I do find that there is a society developing (yuppies?) who make decisions about my worth, my education and my intelligence because I show up at their abode to perform a service and use my hands.   To these people I am an uneducated bumpkin, living from hand to mouth, who falls way short of their image of themselves and their successes, as they work in an office and sit at a desk.  Those with above average intelligence apparently even have a window.

The loggers  with whom I work are knowledge hungry.   Because I have some modicum of interest in tree and plant species, I am bombarded with questions when I visit their work-sites.  They are pretty smart in that they recognize that ignorance can be fixed.  I've learned a lot from their society in the respect of "acknowledging ignorance isn't a fault or weakness.".

Most of those with whom I associate, can't wait to get off of work to get home and play with the kids.  They have off-time businesses working in the woods in land prep or planting.  They spend more time in a rowboat fishing for bream than I spend on my dock fishing for catfish.  They love to hunt and can be found at the local sports store talking about Camo or selling tree stands that they make on their off-time.

I know that a lot of the population believes that Loggers are bad and that their aim is destruction.  But that just isn't right. Loggers depend on the forest for their livelihood.  Anyone with a little foresight can see that it is in their best interest not to destroy it.  Even when working in one of their "clear-cuts" I've seen loggers having a picnic lunch with their family, who came out to visit.

Loggers will make a pass around the landing looking for deer tracks or turkey tracks from the night before too.  They will talk of the wildlife they saw during the day when they meet at the landing for a break, or sometimes it will come blaring over a CB Radio from a Skidder in the woods, " Holy Cow!!  Y'all oughta see this big buck I just jumped.  He's headed North from the landing about where that big Oak tree is..".

Many of them, Florida loggers, go to North Carolina and walk the  Appalachian trail on their vacations.  Some do it on long weekends and it's a special thing for their children to be old enough to be taken along.

We find some from 'Up North' will rent a cabin in our State Forests because the trees are different.  Some will take a bus-man's holiday and work in Southern Woods for awhile just to see the difference.

I think that the perpetuation of the idea that people who work in the woods, whether loggers, foresters or mechanics, having the mentality of destruction, is not only a detriment to the visions we, as woodsmen, are trying to perpetuate, but also places the questioner in the camp of the Environmental Wackos.  It might not be true, but shading the voracity of one's own profession is never in you best interest in the long run.

There might have been a time when people didn't see that they could be doing harm by cutting every tree, but that has pretty much been fixed.  There are still people who see no harm in poaching bear for gall bladders, or elephants for ivory, but that doesn't translate to Hunter's are bad and just want to kill.

Perhaps asking if Loggers liked to hike after work is a valid question, it was the lead-in to the question, setting the premise that loggers had a "destruction mentality" that caused me to take a double-take. 

[mdvaden]

mdvaden,

I viewed your website and understand your need to get out into a real forest once in awhile.Your work demands a clean slate to begin and even though you apparently detest destruction of the natural enviroment,your business depends on it.

That's basically true about the natural environment - but sort of dependent on how "natural environment" is defined.

Unlike many Ceritified Arborists that may get very sentimental about a lot of trees in general, I'm not emotion-driven. I'd probably make the perfect board member for the Oregon state board of forestry.

The way I view forest land is that "everybody gets something, and nobody gets everything". I believe that forest land has to be managed, which certainly includes harvesting.

Perhaps asking if Loggers liked to hike after work is a valid question, it was the lead-in to the question, setting the premise that loggers had a "destruction mentality" that caused me to take a double-take. 

There is nothing in the first post that deals with a destruction mentality.

Maybe it's important for you to ask how you might extract "destruction mentality" from the opening post.

Like if you read a much later reply of mine mentioning landscaping, if I were to describe landscaping at gutting-out old plants, digging holes and moving rock, how would that connote "destruction mentality".

It's merely mentioning aspects of the work environment.

I grew up on acreage, and we removed a lot of trees of all sizes. Every time we did it, we got dirty, other small plants got "creamed" and trees disappeared. Even urban tree removals fit the description. Roofs get dirty with chips flying in the wind, lawns can get dented with chunks of wood, and shrubs frequently get broken if the work location is confined.

So if a landscaper or logger does not like a description of their work environment, I say "Cowboy Up": what's wrong with a work-place description?

In reviewing the opening post, I don't even think I implied a destruction environment. Plants and groundcover almost have to get stomped to harvest trees if it's going to be a full harvest of some acreage.

To me, destruction is irreversible damage to the soil, streams and species, not clearing vegetation for harvesting.

[twobears]

 if a man logs for several years and sticks with it  you can bet he loves the outdoors..if he didn,t he wouldn,t put up with feet of snow,bone chilling cold,being out in downpours or changing weather in the fall and he couldn,t take working with a chainsaw iin 90 degree heat and he sure as heck would get beatup the way loggers do.

[Paul_H]

That's basically true about the natural environment - but sort of dependent on how "natural environment" is defined.

yep

[beenthere]

...................But for all the time they spend leveling the forest, crushing the shrubs and mucking on the logging roads, how many of these loggers are hikers? Outdoorsmen that enjoy a nice forest?
.............................................

My answer to your first question is "pretty obvious that they are more than just hikers...they are also hard workers !".  And for the second implied question, "Most certainly are outdoorsmen, as that is where the trees are at, as well as the forests, and the roads, the hills, the mountains, the brooks, the flowers, the fantastic views, their friends and buddies, the fog being sucked up the draw in the twilight hours, and on and on infinitum".  And throw in the subtle excuses for having a brewski on the way home too. 

  But you can keep digging your way out of that original hole you put yourself in with this first post, as I think there are many good points that have been raised by yourself and several members in support of the loggers enjoying the demanding environment of their occupation.  And we are getting to know you better, as well.

[Tom]

Perhaps asking if Loggers liked to hike after work is a valid question, it was the lead-in to the question, setting the premise that loggers had a "destruction mentality" that caused me to take a double-take. 

There is nothing in the first post that deals with a destruction mentality.

Maybe it's important for you to ask how you might extract "destruction mentality" from the opening post.

Like if you read a much later reply of mine mentioning landscaping, if I were to describe landscaping at gutting-out old plants, digging holes and moving rock, how would that connote "destruction mentality".

It's merely mentioning aspects of the work environment.

[    ....  ]

In reviewing the opening post, I don't even think I implied a destruction environment. Plants and groundcover almost have to get stomped to harvest trees if it's going to be a full harvest of some acreage.

To me, destruction is irreversible damage to the soil, streams and species, not clearing vegetation for harvesting.

Not meaning to belabor a point, but it is the perception of the description in communications that forms the opinion(implication).  What words we choose may form a picture in our own mind, but it is the picture it forms in the mind of the receiver that is important.

There is nothing in the first post that deals with a destruction mentality.

, is your intended premise, but you've left yourself open to interpretation.

For example, if I were to add to your statement, "

describe landscaping at gutting-out old plants, digging holes and moving rock

", a phrase similar to "spending all day", the connotation is that nothing else is done but digging holes, moving rock and Gutting-out old plants.   It's the formation of that premise to the argument/question that "flavors" the implication.  Yes, with subjects that can be as inflammatory as these can tend to be, It is easy to make me do a double-take.

This is really not worth the time to argue, since your clarification of your statement would be enough to put a listener on track.  But, the defense of the statement  just exacerbates the implication and puts the listener on the defensive. Neither of which, I'm sure, you intend or want.

My point is that one must be careful when laying down a premise not to overshadow his intended implication of a following question or argument.  And, if one sees that he has been misinterpreted, to correct the misinterpretation rather than defend his original statement.   When we say things that put others on the defensive, it usually leads to someone getting their feelings hurt or wrongful opinions being formed.

I think/hope that I understand your original post in a different light now.

[snowman]

mdvaden, I reacted kinda knee jerk to your 1st post as many others did. You have to understand that loggers have been on the poop list of society for a long time now and we tend to be a bit thin skinned on the subject.The hypcrocy of people living in the product we produce then trashing us for producing it gets old but on reredaing your post I can actually understand your basic question. Do we get burned out on being in the woods.On my off time I hike, hunt ,snow shoe ,X country ski, even mt bike. But to be perfectly honest, there are saturday mornings when my wife says "honey lets go on a picnic today" and all I really feel like doing is sitting in my easy chair watching tv, no bugs to slap at, cool, comfortable and clean. After all, I just had 5 picnics in a row!

[mdvaden]

  But you can keep digging your way out of that original hole you put yourself in with this first post, as I think there are many good points that have been raised by yourself and several members in support of the loggers enjoying the demanding environment of their occupation.  And we are getting to know you better, as well.

There may seem like holes to be dug out of, and there may be feet to be removed - just depends on how people interpret things.

Easier for people if they do their own extraction though.   

Unless it's a strong arm reaching from a heavy body.

[zopi]

dunno about loggers, but i can categorically confirm that i do not hang out in government office buildings unless forced or paid to...

'druther be logging...

wait, what were we talking about? <GRIN>

[ErikC]

  I pretty much had a similar feeling as a lot of guys here when I read your initial post. Sounds like you put your foot in your mouth, but meant no harm. We've all done it, no sweat.
  To add a little insight to your question, I work in the woods and have been raised around a lot of people who do. Threre are more logging crummies than volvos at our wilderness trailheads come hunting season. There are more loggers who enjoy the outdoors than don't in my experience. Sure, we all want a break now and then, or a change of scenery, but the place most of us call home is the woods. Work and play.


Erik

[Furby]

From History.com's March 9th Web Chat with Melvin Lardy:

Walkerguy: What is your favorite part about being a logger?
Melvin Lardy: The views I see out in the woods every day. Just the smells, sights and sounds of the woods.

LBJONES: What do you do in your free time?
Melvin Lardy: In the very little amount of free time I have, I usually try to hunt and fish. I also like to travel and try to go to different spots around the United States just get away and see new things.

[Sunfield Hardwood]

mdvaden, for starters I think your original post was more about making a statement than asking a question. You dismissed many answers to your post because they did not suit your view. when you wondered why your description of logging and landscaping prompted a sense of destruction, the answer to that is obvious even to a simple logger. You dident mention any of the positives of logging [ replanting,encouraging new growth,less fire danger,new wildlife habitat,jobs,lumber for homes,factories, etc.] or landscaping,[ planting,increased beauty,more enjoyable homes and environment, new habitat for wild life, new blooms plants etc.]. as I allready stated in my post, you were just making a statement for environmentalists, I have a statement for you, There is somewhere around 9 million acres of land that cant be touched by loggers allthough logging would be the best thing for them. How bout letting a few people make a living and benefiting OUR forests and helping the economy in the process.

[rebocardo]

Well, I knew master mechanics where the job gets to be such a grind trying to make money and watching the clock, that they hate working on their own cars and drive wrecks they do not have to do anything to other then turn the key.

Then I know others that drove race trucks or cars and more then a few were ATV and hunting nuts too.

I guess the same could be said of any profession. I had been doing computers since I was 16 (programming with punch cards- batch system), after 20+ years of computer everything I gave it a break.  I think it is possible for everyone to reach a point where the passion does becomes a burden, usually when the money starts to matter more then the enjoyment of the job and it is just a paycheck.

I am probably not going to watch anymore because I can't stand the potty mouths (same reason I stopped watching ice road truckers) even with TV guardian set. But, one thing I thought was telling was the guy that said if he had to do a city job he would die.

I think the guys that are 4th generation loggers, probably view being in the forest as the best possible place to be and about the ultimate in personal freedom and peace of mind.

I briefly met a Marine who was sent home with injuries and found out his three sons are all Marines and all 3 are over in Iraq too.  I have relatives that own a famous large wine company in Napa Valley and grapes are their passion too.

So, people that follow in their kins' foosteps are probably the ones where it is not just a job, it is an adventure and they burn with passion about every aspect of their job and could not imagine doing anything else.

[arojay]

Hiking men,  hmmm.  Thinking about the loggers I know, me included, I'd have to say that some are and some aren't.  Mostly I would say that I rarely go hiking just to be hiking.  I hike to hunt, fish, pick berries, etcetera.  I think that I have an appreciation for the natural world because I am part of it.  Logging is not just what I do, it is who I am.

[OneWithWood]

Folks who spend a lifetime in the woods have an appreciation of what a woods is that the average hiker, weekend camper, drive thru tourist, will never comprehend.  There is a difference between understanding and being a part of an environment and simply being a spectator.

[Cedarman]

When I go hiking I sometimes (not too often) run into people and stop and have a chat.Sooner or later it comes around about what people do for a living.  When they find out I cut cedars they invariably ask if I replant.  I then know they have no clue about forests and the ecology of the forests.  I ask them to think a moment to the last time they saw a hole in the forest where a big tree went down and what was going on on the ground.  Sometimes they see the light.  Sometimes they stay in the shade.

I have hiked over 45 miles of he Sandstone trail in So In. during the spring summer and fall on weekends.  I have yet to meet another hiker on this nice trail.  Other trails we do meet people, but not too many.  I don't think too many people hike anymore. IMHO

[LEES WOODCO]

On the other hand, since I have grown up in this half of Oregon, it's not ignorance to say that I've never met a logger while hiking or camping.

Have you ever met a Vegas show girl while camping? A crab fisherman?  A proctologist? A Mechanic? A salesman? How do you know? How many loggers out there wonder why they have never met an arborist camping?  Probably none. Its a big world and if we're out and about enjoying it, we are probably not focused on the occupations of those around us or really even care.   Loggers don't look like Paul Bunyan and probably don't wear suspenders and hard hats and don't wear labels that I know of other then those that others may try to paste on them.  Unless you walked up to every person you ever saw in the woods while you were out and asked them what they did for a living, then how would you know.  You might have been in the middle of a whole nest of em...

It's not like they need to share tree-hugging, but somehow I get the feeling that their daily work influences their off-time activity and how they view forests.

I can see Paul's wondering why such a question. Whether it was meant to or not, it seems to infer a bunch. Its almost like you have loggers painted in your mind to be involved in some sort of destructive behavior that would negatively effect the things that you enjoy by comparisons in their work environment to a park setting.

But for all the time they spend leveling the forest, crushing the shrubs and mucking on the logging roads, how many of these loggers are hikers? Outdoorsmen that enjoy a nice forest?

To someone that worked in the woods, the way you painted your question was offensive. The basic question without all the loaded adjectives would not be.

"Do guys that work in the woods everyday get tired of being in the woods and not enjoy it any longer?"

That's my question above. I already know the answer because I've worked around and with hundreds of them.

No. They don't get tired of it and most certainly enjoy it and appreciate it and understand that its ALL a nice forest.

 Ditto !  As Dwayne said on the first episode  " I couldn't live in a concrete jungle  !"         Me neither !

[routestep]

Cedarman, go to whiteblaze.net and you will find lots of hikers. That website is as lively as this one, maybe more. Go to trailjournals.com and you can read about hikers out on the trails right now if work or life is keeping you off one.

I've hiked blue blazes and white blazes and have meet or seen hundreds of hikers. It just depends on the trail and the time of year if another hiker is out there with you.

As for the axemen: Are they more likely to hike, I don't know. I doubt that many or even a few are long distance hikers. But not every hikers wants to spend a couple of weeks/months in the woods bagging a trail.

[SwampDonkey]

Most every trip I ever took involved going to the woods at some point. 

[Cedarman]

routestep, thanks for the info.  I would love to hike the AT and the Pacific Crest trails before I get too old.
If I could get someone to buy a cedar mill, I could get started a lot sooner.  The few times I have been on the AT I have seen quite a few hikers.  Some trails just aren't hiked that much.  I like the solitude.

[SwampDonkey]

I walked just a short section of it in the Jefferson NF in Va and I saw a few hikers in October, some where just passing through from Georgia on their way to Maine. I told them that it's going to be a lot colder up there, by the time they make it, than they're dressed for right now. 

They had a photo the other day of Mount Katahdin in Maine showing the wind blowing snow off the peek of her.

[timberfaller390]

I think without all the frills and dressing mdvaden has a good question for someone who does not work in this industry. Yall are right about loggers being thin skined about tree huggers hypocricy so I will give my answer after reading all the posts. "Do loggers enjoy the woods in thier spare time?" I have been working in the woods in some shape or form for 10 yrs. my grandpaw logged with mules and he gave me my love and respect for the outdoors. When he would come home in the evening he would want to go fishing or hunting. I am a fourth generation farmer and I guess a third generation logger and I can say with out a doubt that I would rather be outside than anywhere else. If I am not working the farm or cutting timber I am hunting fishing or horseback riding. I enjoy backpacking I only lack 15 miles hiking the Georgia portion of the appalaichian trail.  We have a 95 thousand acre wilderness area 35 miles from my front door that I have spent countless hours wandering in. After the pine beetle damage several years ago one of the major trails was closed be cause of standing and falling dead timber that could have been cut before the beetles killed the entire 150 acre stand. The useless rotten logs were felled bucked and cleared so the trail could be safely re-opend by volunteers several of whom including myself were loggers who enjoyed hiking,fishing and horseback riding on this trail. If I did not love the outdoors and nature and small town life I would not be plying my chosen trades here I would be living in some city pushing a pencil behind a desk. Where else can you set in your "office" and hear the birds sing the turkeys gobble see the deer run or hear the coyotes howl ? In the zoo? That might be fine for city dwelling "yuppies" but that wont cut it for any real outdoorsman.

[mdvaden]

routestep, thanks for the info.  I would love to hike the AT and the Pacific Crest trails before I get too old.
If I could get someone to buy a cedar mill, I could get started a lot sooner.  The few times I have been on the AT I have seen quite a few hikers.  Some trails just aren't hiked that much.  I like the solitude.

If memory serves me right, there is a part of the Pacific Crest Trail about 30 miles from here across Red Buttes Wilderness. I've been 2/3s of the way up to it on Cook and Green Trail, as far as "No-see-em" camp. A small flat area by Cook and Green creek big enough for 1/2 a dozen one man tents or 2 ten by ten tents.

It would be about 8 miles on that trail to connect with the Pacific Crest Trail. I think that the Pacific Crest Trail might be as nice an adventure as the Oregon Coast Trail as an entire event.

[rebocardo]

I wonder how many AX men own woods, as a percentage, compared to other professions? I know many of us do. 

[Mindy]

I can speak for the Stump-Branch crew. 

Each one of our crew hunts and or fishes.  They have made their lives around the forest.  Many of them don't have computers or satellite TV.  To watch the Ax Men some of them have to drive to a friends or family members house. They all love the forest. 

As far as the pictures, like Roxie said, yes they do prove their love for the forest.  You don't get those pictures cruising to the job site.  You stop. Get out, focus and then snap the picture.  It's not every day that this happens but I think it does show the love and respect of the forest.

As far as hiking to hike, umm I'd say no.  Hike to scout for elk, hell yeah!

Mindy
Stump-Branch Logging

[metalspinner]

What words we choose may form a picture in our own mind, but it is the picture it forms in the mind of the receiver that is important.

Tom,
It took until the third year of our marriage for me to finally understand this point from my wife.   If we all had a "delay" button in our mind and heard what we are about to say before we said it, think about how much easier our lives would be.  We are almost to our tenth year, and we have learned how to speak and listen to each other.  Those first few years were rough.  Now she "understands" what I meant to say...most of the time.   And I understand what she hears...some of the time.

To the question at hand...

I work in the workshop for a living.  Whether it's the wood shop or metal shop, my entire day from breakfast to the midnight snack is spent there.  Even weekends.  During the day when the monotany of work wears on, I find myself thinking about one thing...building something for me or the family.  Whether it's a bowl or piece of furniture or whatever.  Being in the shop is who I am and what I do.  It seems all outside activity is in support of this.  My guess is that anyone with a passion for something will find that their "off" time is directly related in someway to that passion.

My wife works in an office and begrudgingly goes to work each day.  Her passion is not for her job.   We are working on getting that taken care of.