Hotshots -- Inter-Agency firefighting

[BrandonTN]

(I didn't know where else to post this.)

A buddy of mine at school is graduating this spring and he's got a job lined up out in Colorado on a Hotshot crew, fightin' the fires.  And, to make it short, he's got me thinking about it, for a few reasons being a chance to travel, a chance to get into shape (ie, work my butt off), and a chance to make some $.  ....After I finish school, ofcourse. 

Anyone have any experience with the hotshots, or know anyone that has?

[zopi]

It's been awhile...I fought the Shelly fire in the Gila wilderness in 1991...drove truck for most of it..they were asking for anyone who had rural FF experience...It is hot hard nasty unending work, and can get scary real quick...I had never seen a pine tree explode before, and hope i never do again..ugly.

It's bloody fun though..and a whole lot less traumatic than pulling somebody's baby out of a mashed car
after some damned drunk hit them....

you will get into shape...nuthin' a Tennessee boy can't handle though..

[BrandonTN]

you will get into shape...nuthin' a Tennessee boy can't handle though..

 

Hot, hard, nasty, and unending work?  Oh yeah, that's what I'm lookin for!  How did you get on with them, Zopi? I'm assuming it's not easy to get on with them...

[Ron Scott]

I'm pretty familiar with Hotshot crews having worked with them on forest fires and was a member of a Helishot Crew in 1978 on the Angeles National Forest in southern California. The Helishots were Hotshot crews that repelled from helicopters on initial attack.

You will need to get employed by the U.S. Forest Service or a contract Hotshot Crew, pass the physical fitness requirements, retain your fitness, and go through some extensive forest firefighting and safety training. It's good employment during the fire seasons and one can make a few extra $$$ during a long fire season with long hours of hard work. Hotshot crews usually get the more critical and hot fireline assignments.

[Tillaway]

Hot Shots are a Type 1 crew meaning better trained, better physical condition, and more experienced.  The work initial attack whick is hot line construction, burn-outs, and back fires.
 
Type 2 crews can do all of the above depending on individual crew capability but spend the most time mopping up, setting up hose lays and such.

You will need, at the minimum,  course work  S130 and S190, and pass the arguous level pack test to even begin to be considered.  These qualifications can get you on a type 2 crew.  Hot Shots usually require more expereince and training.

[Ron Scott]

http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/people/hotshots/

[BrandonTN]

Tillaway, part of the forestry curriculum here at my school contains a fire course...the guys ahead of me said that getting a "Red Card" is an option, and they also mentioned the "arduous" pack test.
But it never occured to me that I would first have to get on w/ a type 2 before the hotshots....hmm.  So, tell me if I have this right: If I take the required fire coursework, and pass the arduous pack test, then I could qualify to work for some lesser crew(still with the Forest Service?), and then perhaps move on to a hotshot crew?
Also, can't remember exactly, but my buddy said if I did some kind of work for the city during the summers--maybe having to do w/ hose laying or something, that having that kind of experience, which sounded to me like outside of fire-fighting, would be a help in getting me on with the hotshots. 

Ron...that sounds awesome.  Though I don't know if I'm too keen about repelling out of helicopters...can't I just hoof it on the ground? 

[Tillaway]

Hot Shots are usually recruited from engine crews, or people with type 2 crew experience.  At least it was when I was involved.  You had to have both experience and know the right people then.  I think they have greatly loosened the requirements in order to fill positions of late.

With the FS get on an engine, trial crew, engineering crew,  siliviculture or timber. These positions will get you the experience you need.  The non fire related jobs actually are where the type 2 crews are formed.  If the crew that is formed for a fire from your district gets good reviews, you will be called next time.  You can spend most of your summer on fires instead of what you job is suppose to be. To see more fires, work in regions 1, 5, or 6.  Eastern US crews are only called at last resort to these regions, they tend to not perform as well since the terrain is more extreme.   Stay out of recreation, except trails, or any job where you may be doing contract inspection.  These positions are usually deemed to important to be allowed off district.   

[timberfaller610]

Brandon,
I work for the Georgia Forestry Commission as a Firefighter and also contract with the U.S.F.S. The best way to get to a shot crew position is to get your foot in the door with the Forest Service. Go to  www.fs.fed.us and follow the links to employment even if you have to take a temp. position it will get your foot in the door. Unicoi, Tn seems to have perminant positions coming open pretty regular. If you can I would reccomend that you take what you can get. They will have thousands of temp positions coming open in the next few months for the western fire season. If you can get in any position you will have the opportunity to transfer to a full time position and then you'll be able to work toward a position on a shot crew. Also if you can get your Red card at school that will help you in getting hired on.

Seth

[BrandonTN]

Ok.  I guess I'll accept the idea working my way up a bit and go with it, instead of just jumping straight into the Hotshots.  I got a slightly skewed idea of it because my buddy at school already has a hotshot position lined up for this coming up season with no previous fire work, but he also has a friend that's a hotshot, and also is one of those super-outdoors-athletic guys....rock climbs regularly, always on the move, cutting this down, hauling that, etc.  He's in superb physical shape. I think he said they're gonna have him using the chainsaw, cutting trees for firebreaks, I guess? A job no one wants to do, he said.

[zopi]

you will get into shape...nuthin' a Tennessee boy can't handle though..

 

Hot, hard, nasty, and unending work?  Oh yeah, that's what I'm lookin for!  How did you get on with them, Zopi? I'm assuming it's not easy to get on with them...

uhhh...nuthin' official...I was a rescue tech/FF1 at the time and i knew the right guy...he'd seen me double clutch and knew i could handle any truck that wasn't a semi..(oshkosh rigs are fun..) he just suggested i show up on a certain day...the day after payday..<GRIN>

i had alot of fun..wasn't let into the tough stuff...in retrospect it was probably a good thing..muy huevos and no sense to speak of...

[Bill in U.P.]

Brandon, myself and 2 other guys from our vol. fire. dept. are taking S130 and 190 right now through the DNR in conjunction with the Forest Service. The DNR says once we're certified they'd like to put us on the wildland fire roster to help out in case more people are needed. I'm to old and heavy(305# weightlifter)to be running around out west in that steep terrain, but you might want to look at your state DNR to start out if they do anything like that. Once you get into a fire service plan on getting hooked. Good Luck, Bill.

[timberfaller390]

Brandon You can also contact the fire management officer for your area at your local U.S. forest Service office. He should be able to point you in the right direction for getting S130 S190 L180 and I100 that will get you your red card and type 2 fire fighter status, then you can pack test and be able to start doing contract fire work as an A.D. which I would recommend because even if you had the oppertunity I don't think you would want to be on a shot crew with no expierence.Wildland firefighting can get pretty hairy at times and the shot crews (which are type 1 firefighters) are usually in the thick of it. You will have to get your FFT2 task book signed off before you can get your FFT1 task book inishiated. If you go on details as an FFT2 for acouple of seasons and get your FFT1 book signed off you should have no problem landing a spot on a shot crew.

[Kevin]

North West Timber Fallers

[blaze83]

Yo BrandonTN,

I hope you persue your goal of fighting fire, it is an amazing and challenging way to earn money. I worked my way through college in the 80's on a fire crew in Idaho. we were a cat 2 crew but we went out as a 40 man strike team with the st Joe hot shots. I was in yellowstone when it burned and various other places through out my 7 years. I know the government has placed a lot more rules and regulations on everything as far as hours worked and consecutive days on the fire line. It's still hard work and very dangerious though.

the picture was taken by a friend of mine on the desolation creek fire in the Jon Day wilderness in 1987(I think) if you look over the top of the crew members you can see an air tanker making a fire retardent drop

[pappy19]

All of you fire eaters should read "Young men and Fire" before you get too macho. Getting a start with BLM might be easier to do. Get on a pumper squad. Class 1 pumpers are pretty cool.

[Ron Scott]

Another recommended read is Fire On the Mountain; also written by John N. Maclean.

[timberfaller390]

Both are great books

[Ron Scott]

U.S. Forest Service to fill hundreds of vacancies

May 27th- The U.S. Forest Service wants to fill more than 500 positions in California in its next round of hiring. Forest Service officials say they will be ready for this year's fire season.

Earlier this month, Mark Rey, undersecretary of Agriculture, wrote in a letter to Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-California, that there were 363 firefighter vacancies in California.

According to the new report, the California region of the Forest Service wants to fill 80 hot-shot leadership positions, 20 engine captain positions, 44 engineer positions and 322 assistant engineer positions, as well as various other positions.

At a Senate hearing April 1, Rey told Feinstein that every position will be filled by the start of fire season - a goal he did not commit to in his May letter to Feinstein that said there were 363 vacancies.

Any new firefighters hired in July won't be trained in time for this year's fire season, but the Forest Service is trying to fill many of the vacancies from within.

     SAF Policy Update

[Phorester]

Brandon, the VA Dept. of Forestry teaches a week long fire academy every spring.  About a dozen different courses offered.  Used to be at Ft. Pickett, but now is taught at Longwood College near the middle of the State.  We just finished it up last week, but it is always around the first full week in June.

Maybe Tennessee does the same thing.  In any event, the bare minimum qualification is the 40 hour 130/190 basic firefighter course.  You need that course before you can take any others.  For the last two years the first 3 days worth of instruction was online, the last two days you have to come to the course location for field work. You register & pay for the course through the sponsoring agency before the online session.

[BrandonTN]

If you go on details as an FFT2 for acouple of seasons and get your FFT1 book signed off you should have no problem landing a spot on a shot crew.

--sounds like a good plan to me. thanks.

U.S. Forest Service to fill hundreds of vacancies

May 27th- The U.S. Forest Service wants to fill more than 500 positions in California in its next round of hiring. Forest Service officials say they will be ready for this year's fire season.

Earlier this month, Mark Rey, undersecretary of Agriculture, wrote in a letter to Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-California, that there were 363 firefighter vacancies in California.

According to the new report, the California region of the Forest Service wants to fill 80 hot-shot leadership positions, 20 engine captain positions, 44 engineer positions and 322 assistant engineer positions, as well as various other positions.

At a Senate hearing April 1, Rey told Feinstein that every position will be filled by the start of fire season - a goal he did not commit to in his May letter to Feinstein that said there were 363 vacancies.

Any new firefighters hired in July won't be trained in time for this year's fire season, but the Forest Service is trying to fill many of the vacancies from within.

     SAF Policy Update

Wow.  Thanks, Ron.  I guess it's not a bad time to be looking for a fire job.

I appreciate all the info.  I actually got offered a student summer job w/ the F.S. in Cherokee National Forest in TN this summer, by applying online back in the early spring. But my plans changed--had to take a summer class. But right now I'm living near Nashville and working for a friend who owns his own little operation restoring native TN plants.  Tuesday we were out in a cedar-glade(supposedly a type that is unique to middle-TN), owned by some government preserve, bushwhacking thru the underbrush chopping privet and treating the stumps w/ round-up in 90+ degree weather, and TN humidity....phew!    Glad I don't do that everyday.  My friend, or boss', website is www.nashvillenatives.com. Check it out. 
...But next summer, for sure I'm gonna devote my time to getting a fire job. Preferably, out west.

[Ron Scott]

Former Gang Member and Ex-Convict Becomes Firefighter

On November 24, 2008, The Los Angeles Times featured a story on firefighter Ramon Maestas, a former gang member and ex-convict from Los Angeles. After becoming a member of the San Bernardino National Forest’s Front Country Crew 6 (a Type II hand crew) and fighting three fires, Maestas was promoted to squad leader. During the summer, Maestas and his crew helped fight the Lime Complex Fire on the Shasta-Trinity National Forest and the recent fires sparked by Santa Ana winds in Southern California. He’s excited about the new opportunities in his life and hopes to find a permanent job with the Forest Service. In 2007, he heard about a gang-intervention program called Aztecs Rising. The program’s director, also a former gang member, began his career as a firefighter for the Forest Service and fought fires throughout the nation.

In 1994, he started a training program to help people, often gang members, to be successful and find careers to support themselves and their families. Since the program’s inception, nearly 2,000 men and women have graduated, moved off the streets and found steady jobs, some with the Forest Service.

Chief's Newletter

[BrandonTN]

Nice story, Ron.  Nothing like working in the great outdoors to give people new inspiration. 


At the SAF convention in Reno, I talked to a crew chief for the Nevada State department of forestry, and she said they use crews of inmates. She said the inmates behave greatly because they are grateful to be working out of doors. Of course, they aren't the ones serving hard-time. But still says somethin' about working w/ forests.

[timberfaller390]

Hayes state penitentiary has a rake crew that are guys doing hard time but every time they go out there are 4 guards with shotguns that go to

[VT_Forestry]

Here at Virginia Tech, we have a fire class that gets you the S130/S190 training, gets you the opportunity to take the pack test, and ultimately leads you to getting your red card.  Not a hard class by any stretch.  Brandon, I saw an announcement for a hotshots opening in Augusta Springs, VA, I'll try and find the announcement number for you.  At least that would keep you on the east coast if you were interested in that.  Good Luck!

James

PS - I don't know about you but I had a great time out in Reno   

[BrandonTN]

James - I said hello to someone from VA Tech at one point, wonder if that was you?  The first night we were there I saw a group of VA Tech'ers walking in the lobby. Ya'll had a good crowd...we only had a few from TN able to make it.
I had a great time, too...even though I had a bad cold at the time. 

Thanks for the announcement tip.

[VT_Forestry]

Yeah, we were walking through the lobby and a few of you guys from TN were sitting there, I remember talking about conclave...haha it's a small world

[Ron Scott]

During my USFS firefighting days, I had inmate, logger, sawmill, and hotshot crews all working under my sector supervision. All did a good job on the firelines. I was particularly impressed by the professional tree fallers falling the hot ponderosa pine snags on extremely steep slopes.

[BrandonTN]

I was particularly impressed by the professional tree fallers falling the hot ponderosa pine snags on extremely steep slopes.

They need to incorporate that as a new event at Conclave. (not that I would be good at it, but would be fun to watch.) 


On a more serious note though, I've been concerned lately about the reality of me being on a hotshot crew. A couple of months ago I was running about every day, and ran for the first time in the morning. (usually run in the evening). After that run, I hurt my back.But becoming active over the past several years actually helped it. It may not be good for me to be on a hotshot crew w/ that. .

Bottom line: If I don't do situps seriously to strengthen my "core", firefighting is probably not an option. 

[Ron Scott]

One needs to be in extremely good and maintained physical condition to be on the Hot shot crews. Also any fireline crews for that matter. I would not recommend fireline assignments with a back problem that might hinder the safety of you or your crew in any way.