Unlevel face cuts

[Kevin]

What happens when you make an unlevel face cut ?

[Reddog]

Well, is the back cut going just as bad the other way?

[Kevin]

The back cut will line up with the face cut.

[Radar67]

I would think it would want to roll to the right (as you look at your diagram).

[Kevin]

Why would that would happen?

[Reddog]

The back cut will line up with the face cut.

If they line up, it will fall were the face/hinge is aimed.

[Kevin]

What's happening to the hinge as the tree comes over?

[Radar67]

My thinking is the hinge would have more tension building up on the left as the tree comes over. At some point that tension would snap on the left of the diagram and cause the tree to sort of roll to the right.

[Kevin]

 

Right on!
The notch closes first on the high side breaking the hinge wood on that side first causing the tree to roll out.

[Kevin]

Reddog;
You are correct in assuming the tree should fall to the gun but because the face goes into a pinch on one side before the other the outcome is different.

[blaze83]

I agree, however if the hing held untill the tree was fairly well into its falling path would the tree begin falling out of gun in proportion to the angle of the face cut. I would think even with the angle, the hinge would at least begin to break along the entire length untill the forces overwelmed it and by then the fall direction has been determined, assuming the hinge is a constant width along the entire tree diameter. just a thought 


steve

[Kevin]

Steve;
This would be more prevalent on a narrow face and slower to react on an open face.
The quicker the pinch occurs the quicker the holding wood starts breaking causing the tree to fall off the intended lay.

[ID4ster]

Right on!
The notch closes first on the high side breaking the hinge wood on that side first causing the tree to roll out.

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

That doesn't make sense. If the backcut was at the same angle as the initial undercut and the hinge was the same width all the way across than it should not close on the top side first unless you have a dutchman up there that would cause problems even in a level cut or the tree is so heavy with limbs on the downhill side that it pulls the tree that way anyway. If the top were to close first the angle of the undercut would have to be so severe that the tree wouldn't be safe to fall anyway. In any case you could level out the undercut before starting the back cut or angle the hinge so that the top was wider than the bottom which would compensate for the closure. If the back cut is the same angle and width though the tree should fall in the direction of the face cut well before the top part of the hinge closes.

[Kevin]

This wouldn't have anything to do with uneven hinges, a dutchman or weight distribution.
If you think of the tree falling straight and your cuts not being square to the tree do you not think there might be an affect on the direction it falls?
If one side of the face is higher than the other and the tree is falling straight will one side close sooner than the other?
What's the purpose for making a face square to the tree on a leaning tree?
I could be wrong.






...but then again, I could be right. 

[Reddog]

Kevin,
The tree will not fall straight to the stem, it will follow the hinge. So the face will close equally.
You can use a angled face cut to help steer the stem on leaners. Only to a few degrees, but it helps.
Also I have used it to steer around another trees limbs hanging in the way.

That was why I ased about the back cut. If it is not parallel, then the hinge will caude the face to close unequal. Doing exacly what you discribed.

Just my .02, which may not be worth much.

[LEES WOODCO]

Right on!
The notch closes first on the high side breaking the hinge wood on that side first causing the tree to roll out.

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Bull Schnickeys!      For example - A door hinge always closes the same way no matter if it is verticle , horizontal or at an angle.

[Kevin]

Remember the hinge on this tree is closing and starting to break so what you are left with is half a hinge and holding wood which is now pulling on the tree.

[Maineloggerkid]

I am in a class right now where this happens all the time, because the first year kids dont have a clue what they are doing, and I will admit- I do it once in a while, too. It does affect your aim, but not dramaticaly. It also seems to depend on the size of the bole, wieght of the limbs, lean of the tree,etc.  I have used an unlevel face cut as a felling technique before on a tree that was leaned hard in the opposite direction of the hole I wanted it in. We have to swing our trees using wedges and other techniques because the instructor wont let us pull them with the skidder. ONly becuase we are going for our CLP liscence and we our supposed to learn such skills.

[Kevin]

Kevin,
The tree will not fall straight to the stem, it will follow the hinge. So the face will close equally.

I would agree that it will not fall straight to the stem but one side will close faster than the other

You can use a angled face cut to help steer the stem on leaners. Only to a few degrees, but it helps.
Also I have used it to steer around another trees limbs hanging in the way.

I wouldn't use an angled face cut to turn a tree

That was why I ased about the back cut. If it is not parallel, then the hinge will caude the face to close unequal. Doing exacly what you discribed.

That's due to the uneven hinge wood pulling on the tree and not the apex of the face

Just my .02, which may not be worth much.

Worth just as much as anyone else on this forum 

[Radar67]

I think the effect of gravity might have a lot to do with it breaking on the high side.