Logging ATV Recommendation

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

Howdy all!

I've got another ATV Logging thread going on the board, but I wanted to take a read and compliment all of you on your efforts.  Obviously, all of you have put a great deal of thought into this -- really great work!

Dakota: That is one fine looking logging arch you've got there!  Do you happen to have any more photos of it?

Happy Logging ... 

[Harvey]

I use a 375 Arctic Cat,  automatic,  4WD,  with a homemade trailer,  works great.

[thecfarm]

Harvey,welcome to the forum.

[John Mc]

I'd like to move this thread a bit away from specific brand/model recommendations and into what the most desirable features are to have on an ATV for logging use.

My sister and brother-in-law live on an island in New Hampshire, and have just started living there year round. Neither has ever owned an ATV and don't know much about it (although he is a genuine whiz at fixing things, engines, generators, all sorts of machinery). He has experience with a chainsaw and felling trees, but not skidding. They just want to pull in a few cords of firewood per year for personal use. The trails on the island are rough and rocky, but all the slopes are moderate. He'll be looking to pick something up used, and will probably make or scrounge an arch.

What I've gathered from comments so far in this thread:

Solid rear Axle (more description would be helpful here. Are you saying there is no differential? seems like that would make turning a problem. Or are you saying the axle stubs that come out of the differential should be solid, not hollow?)

Low Range

True 4x4 (not limited slip on front) -- want to be able to lock all four wheels

Anything else to add, or does anyone have any arguments with those points? Is there anything in particular to look for on the towing attach point? Preferred tires for rough rocky ground (mud is not much of a concern where they are)? I'm thinking the bigger the wheels the better, for the ground clearance and getting around over the rough rocky trails.

I'm thinking if he makes an arch, he should go with something like PawNature's, with the slider that picks up the logs. It seems like the self-braking action with one of these would be a nice safety feature, though maybe not absolutely necessary on their moderate slopes? Any down side to this type of arch over the ones which use a hand winch to lift the end of the log?

Thanks for any tips.

John Mc

[Night Raider]

I'll elaborate on the solid rear axel for you, it's like the back axel on a pick-up truck compared to a car.  Only on an ATV the hitch is connected right to the axel so it's under the suspension.  Most ATVs have permanently locked back axels which is why they chew up grass a bit. 
One other thing is liquid cooled, not just oil cooled, you'll be going low speed and high RPM alot.
Most mid sized ATVs come with 25" tires standard but most will take atleast 26" (without rubbing the plastics) but you can get up to 30" I think, you'd need a lift kit for that.  A bigger tire will take away power because of the extra weight and the change in drive ratio.
The other thing you asked about is the front locking diff. I haven't used one, I've been told when it's locked you can forget about steering.  If it's not locking most will have a limited slip.  But a winch will get you out of almost anything.
I was in the same position as you about a year ago, and I learned a lot.  Any other questions, just ask.
good luck

[John Mc]

Thanks, Night Raider.

The liquid cooled is a good tip. I hadn't thought of the effect of extended low speed operations.

As far as the front locking differential... I was only repeating what was mentioned earlier in this thread. There are few places on the island where he'd get stuck... it's fairly dry , well-drained soils. The main concern is pulling ability, and whether the locking front diff would be a necessity for operations on the rough, uneven ground (or pine needle covered slopes).

John Mc

[John Mc]

Any comments on automatic vs manual transmission? He's not going to be going really hard-core with this... just a few cords a year skidded back to his house. He does want to have something that will hold up to this use. Price is an issue, which is why he's looking for a used one.

[Night Raider]

I'd reccomend manual, which is what I have, they are a bit cheaper and have a stronger more responsive drive train then an automatic, and you don't have to worry about smoking belts.

[Mooseherder]

I think most of the major manufacturers today make good machines.  If he is looking for used they are out there.  He can find one with low hrs. that was adult owned.  These machines can take alot as they are built for it.  My buddy and I have the exact same machine except for one thing.  Mine is an automatic, his manual.  One would think the Automatic would break before a manual but that wasn't the case this time.   He has had some problems with shifting.  I love automatic.   Tell them to get at least the 500 or larger.
Plus I can change a belt if needed but I can't fix a transmission. (remember that commercial)
"I always wanted to fix transmichians." 

[Woodhog]

Ground Clearance (Maximum)  very important. You say it is rocky ground.

Differential Lock  option 4x4.

Winch  with moveable block to double pulling power.
Also a small snatch block and chain.

Also a winch on the rear of the machine.

Carrier of some kind on front and back for saw, gas, lunch, tools etc, prefer type with covers that will keep things dry in at least one box, one should be open for easy access to saw, tree bar, tongs etc when moving around cutting.

Hitch should be regular small truck receiver  2" type,mounted to the frame of the machine.

Heavy skid plate on the bottom of the machine. Some people replace the plastic one with a steel skid plate.

Boot protectors for  axle joints.

Foot protection plates for the operator.

Water cooled.

At least 500 CC, large Agricultural type tires, Manual transmission.

Heavy Bumpers on front and rear for  running into trees.

Backrest on saddle if you are older person.

Place for cell phone and first aid kit.

Strong arms and back for running in 4 wheel drive all the time at slow speed in tight spots.

[John Mc]

I've seen a couple of recommendations now for 500cc. I can understand the need to go for the largest ATV you can afford (I've got a compact tractor and often wish I had something a bit bigger). Since he's looking for something used, I'm wondering if 500cc should be considered an absolute minimum, or could he go with something smaller if he were willing to gear down, go slow, and/or haul shorter length logs (most will be softwoods, so that helps on the weight a bit). If he ran across a 350 or 400cc for example which met all other requirements, should he just pass it by?

He's only looking to haul in 3 or 4 cords per year for personal use. Willing to spend some extra time doing it if it means saving some money.

Thanks again for all the great tips so far.

John Mc

[stonebroke]

I have a honda 400 foreman. Works great, but I think people mean that the bigger it is the less strain on it and the longer it will last.

Stonebroke

[Night Raider]

I'd say 400cc is the absolute min. that's the size they start making them for actually working.

[Ron Scott]

I'd say that bigger is certainly better if the intent is to use it for skidding or forwarding logs and production is not the intent.

[woodsrunner]

The bigger engines will provide more low speed torque. Also the bigger engines will come in a bigger overall package. if you're going to "skid" logs with an atv you need that low speed torque to be able to crawl thru the woods and you need some weight or mass to counter or handle the weight of the logs. My experience has been that most atvs are not geared low enough for my taste. when i'm in the woods with mine i spend most of the day in first and second gear. granted my timber land is very rugged terrain, but for working with one you need low speed crawling ability. the othe thing I absolutely love is a big basket ON THE FRONT ONLY. I can carry a whole bunch of tools on my foreman 500 this way and it provides some protection against rearing up when I'm pulling heavy loads or climbing steep trails. Be advised if you have never run a 4 wheeler do not try to learn on the job. These machines are very powerful and very heavy and will hurt you. I would not advise learning to operate one in the woods. The operational controls are very different from a car or truck and in an emergency situation you don't have the muscle memory and reactions until you gain considerable experience. I watched my dad run one up a tree a few months ago.  Luckily only his pride was hurt.   

[JimMartin9999]

Dangerous, yeah.  My son was headed for a drop off, turned the handlebars to the left, kept going straight--as the back wheels just pushed him that way.  Luckily and skillfully, he jumped off just as the ATV went over, landing upsidedown.  Could have been ouch.  Just cost me  a bit, kept the son.

[jokers]

Are you guys aware that steering on an atv is primarily accomplished by weighting the foot pedal or floorboard on the side that you want to turn toward? The handlebars are mostly just somewhere to hang your hands so your arms don`t get too tired or they can be used for leverage in conjunction with weighting the pedal.

My fourwheeler is a 98 Suzuki 500 liquid with full time fourwheel drive. It`s got good torque and it`s been stone reliable. They were never as popular as the Grizzley`s, Sportmans, or Rincons so you can get a good used one fairly cheap but if you do a little research you`ll find that they have ground clearance as good as any of that vintage and some of todays, they have a manual gear tranny, shaft drive, and a solid rear axle which is a plus in regard to durability and limited maintenance.

[John Mc]

My fourwheeler is a 98 Suzuki 500 liquid with full time fourwheel drive. It`s got good torque and it`s been stone reliable. They were never as popular as the Grizzley`s, Sportmans, or Rincons so you can get a good used one fairly cheap

Any idea what a decent used one would run?

[jokers]

It`s been a while since I looked at prices but there were a few in the local swap sheet for $2500 or less this spring John.

[ID4ster]

Go with an ATV in the 400-500 cc range especially if you are using an arch. You don't need anything bigger than that and in fact will find it counter productive if you get into the 600 cc or larger range. The guy that makes the arches will tell you this also. You don't need a big machine with and arch and you'll find the bigger machines cause more damage and are harder to steer and manuver in the woods when you're logging with an ATV. We've got a Suzuki 400 and that is all we need for an occassional stick of wood that needs moving. My brother used it very succesfully to log firewood until we got a 55 hp Kioti with a Fransgard winch. But in all honesty if you go above a 500 cc you'll end up regreting it eventually.