how not to fell a tree

[Quebecnewf]

Here (i think) is a link to a video i posted on youtube on what happened Sunday past when I felled a large spruce tree

Give it a look

Quebecnewf

[Tom]

A picture is worth a thousand words, but that requires a explanation story. 

[Ron Scott]

Wow!

[Quebecnewf]

We decided to climb up a cliff to cut this large spruce perched on the edge. Plan was to fell the spruce down over the cliff. All went well until the spruce lodged in the birch and went wild.

We had quite the laugh after it was all over, but its not something you want to do with ever tree you cut.
This is the first time anyone ever took a video of me cutting logs and look what happened

Quebecnewf

[scsmith42]

"WOW" is right - glad that nobody got hurt!

Scott

[Jeff]

That was some video!

[Tom]

What was the comment in the end?  Slam Dunk?

I've looked at it a bunch of times and am still not convinced that you aren't squashed. 

[zopi]

yikes!   I'da prolly run the camera over going the other direction...

[Corley5]

That's a play I've never seen    Glad no one got hurt

[Stephen Alford]

You should make something special out of that Picea Luckous like a pew. Glad your OK.  Stephen

[thecfarm]

Don't let no one film you again.  WOW is right.

[fat olde elf]

Scared me !!!! and I'm old..........

[sawguy21]

YIKES  Please do not try that again. We enjoy having you here.

[Sprucegum]

     I'm the kind of Idiot that laughs at things like that     

Happy to see yer all OK 

[leweee]

    I'm the kind of Idiot that laughs at things like that     

Happy to see yer all OK 

  your not the only one. 
Trees like that keep us on our toes.......also teach you new dance moves and give you religion.
Glad to hear no saws or people were harmed during the making of this video.

[blaze83]

Yikes!!!!!!   RUN Forest Run  I watched it 4 times, thought it was a barber chair at first. then saw the birch tree it flipped over.  very scary, glad your still with us.



Steve

[sprucebunny]

I'm glad it's on film because discribing it with words just wouldn't have the same impact.

Good show  Glad you are still here  to laugh with us 

[Left Coast Chris]

Good adrenaline rush.    You probably had some interesting dreams that night also.  I know I would have had to clean my pants out after the initial hoot, hollar or what ever the reaction was!

[rebocardo]

Is there a direct URL for this?

[Jeff]

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,30056.0.html

[Quebecnewf]

After I got the two sections of the tree down out of the woods onto the river I figured it was time to enjoy a pop.

Close calls require time to stop and ponder.
 

I'm setting on the top 10' log

Quebecnewf

[snowman]

I'm glad everybody thinks that videos funny, I don't. I know theres alot of you out there rolling your eyes  and thinking I should liten up but theres a real lesson in that video. One of the dumbest things you can do is leave a broken off stob standing in your falling zone. It may seem impossible or at least improbale for the tree your falling to hit it dead center and do what that tree did but it's actually very common. Lesson here is, go out and cut that stob down or at least cripple it up before you fall your timber. I learned this the same way the guy in the video did, the rest of you now have the opportunity to learn from his mistake and believe me it was a real big one. You just saw how alot of men have met their death.

[beenthere]

Snowman
I wouldn't call anyone (especially a forum member ) dumb or stupid....I'm glad he posted the video, glad that all are ok, and glad that we had the opportunity to learn what you pointed out in your comments...other than the derogatory remarks.   
So... you said you learned the same way...don't think I'd venture to call you dumb or stupid...

Now, time to enjoy a "pop"   

[Jeff]

Quebecnewf, love that photo. Thats a good one.

[1953greg]

the link is not there for me.

does anyone else have any problem?

[Quebecnewf]

Snowman
I have been cutting logs for many years. I have had this happen to this extent once and got it on video.
As anyone knows , cutting logs is a tricky business, cutting logs in deep snow with snowshoes on your feet is even more so.
I am very careful in the woods and at all times do my best to be safe but I bet anyone looking at that small birch below the spruce could not have foreseen what was going to happen.
It was a mistake on my part but I would bet if you had any number of experenced fellers looking at the situation not one would have said "you better cut that birch or its going to upend the spruce your cutting".

Quebecnewf

[Kevin]

I mentioned that here

The guy cutting the tree gets hit by the butt and tossed to the ground.
The same thing can happen when the top of a tree being felled falls into another tree top.

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,29779.msg429037.html#msg429037

Normally you would expect the tree to become hung up if it was felled into another but with this one being on a hill picking up momentum and hitting the birch the way it did caused the uncertain reaction .
The lesson would be don't fall trees into other trees, I work on snowshoes and it slows down your escape so I know what that's like!
I cut a chico last week and I knew the top was going to hit a branch, possibly break off and come back at me.
Just as soon as I saw movement in the top and the chico going over I made good my escape which was well prepared in advance.
The top broke out and came back, it's dangerous work.
Cameras and other people can be a distraction as well.
That's a good lesson to be captured on video, lots of people will learn from it.
Thanks for posting it Quebecnewf.

[Sprucegum]

You can be assured no one was laughing until we could see that the feller had survived and was unharmed. The laughter is as much a release of tension as it is redneck humor.

[snowman]

I knew thered be some liten up comments but I stand by my post. First I didn't call anyone dumb, I said it was a dumb mistake and yes I freely admited I'd done it too. Difference is, I learned from my mistake , quebec seems to think it was a freak unforseeable accident. It wasn't. A stob inside the 1st 3rd of the length of your tree is a man killer. It had nothing to do with it being a downhill fall either, in fact that likely saved quebec by momentum going downhill. Believe it or not on flat ground the tree can balance on the stob and the weight of the butt can make it fall back towards you.Once you look up in the sky and see a tree straight above you and you dont know if to run or which way to run, you don't forget it and thats why my comment may of seemed hard edged. Im not trying to trash anyone, merely pointing out the seriousness of the situation and hoping to prevent a death or crippling to someone in this forum.I started falling timber in 1978, im still falling timber too. Iv'e never been a big log count guy because im to interested in staying alive and kicking which so far I still am .Anyway hope I didn't hurt any feelings, or on second thought I don't care if I did if at least 1 man in this forum goes out and cuts stobs down before falling a tree.

[SeeSaw]

Quebecnewf,

We had quite the laugh after it was all over, but its not something you want to do with ever tree you cut.

Wow, My question is, was the laughter before or after you guy's cleaned your shorts?

I'm sure glad no one got hurt!!!

[stonebroke]

What's a chico? And What's a stob?

Stonebroke

[isawlogs]

What's a chico? And What's a stob?

Stonebroke

I will try to explaine .

 Here a "chico"  is a dead standing tree with some crown left
   A " stub"  would be a part of daed standing tree , ( only trunk )
 Both being an accident waiting to happen .

[Kevin]

I don't see where a stob or stub of anything interfered with the fall of this tree.
The downhill slope cause the conifer to fall further into the other tree.
If the other tree was on the same plane you probably would have a hung tree.

The red indicates the tree it got caught in, that's not a stob.



What made it come back was the tree not being able to advance any further downhill causing the weight of the trunk and the opposition of the other tree to bring it back.

[Kevin]

Stonebroke;

Actually spelt chicot meaning dead trees,wholly or partly rotted through.

A stub is a standing dead tree characterized by a broken off top and very few or no remaining branches.

[Tom]

does anyone else have any problem?

Yeah, I got a hole in the battery of my truck. 

[Reddog]

Quebecnewf, love that photo. Thats a good one.

I agree.

Quebecnewf, Thanks for the Vid.

[LeeB]

Can you poke a stob in it Tom? 

[stonebroke]

So is a chicot a snag or is a stub a snag?

Stonebroke

[Kevin]

A snag can be a chicot or a stob.
That's where geography comes in. 

You can see some stobs in the foreground of the video.
They were chicots that lost their tops.
Chicots pose a threat of falling on someone where stobs usually just get in the way but can pose the same threat..
Someone else from somewhere else might refer to them both as snags.

[stonebroke]

Boy , And I thought Southerners were hard to understand.

Stonebroke

[Kevin]

I'm pretty sure that chicot is solely a Canadian term but I could be wrong.

[beenthere]

I'm pretty sure that chicot is solely a Canadian term but I could be wrong.

A french word? I'd never heard of it, but then that doesn't say too much...

[Kevin]

Here's something from the East Coast.

http://www.whscc.nb.ca/docs/ChicotsGuide_e.pdf

[metalspinner]

There is a Chicot State park in Louisiana.  Still don't know what the word means, though.

[pineywoods]

There is a Chicot State park in Louisiana.  Still don't know what the word means, though.

Lake chicot is right across the line in arkansas, good fishing

[metalspinner]

We spent a week or so there when I was a kid.   I remember going waaaay up north to Chico State Park where they had those hills and red dirt.

[ID4ster]

I'm going to agree with Snowman on this one. That "accident" should have been foreseeable and preventable. If you were using the site bar on your chainsaw correctly than that birch should have shown up on the initial undercut. Once you saw that the birch was in the way you could have either stopped cutting the spruce and felled the birch first or possibly adjusted the direction that you were going to fell the spruce. It takes a whole lot less than what happened there to kill or severely injure a person when you're cutting timber. The extra time to make sure your falling lane is clear is well worth the effort. Glad you got it on video but sure hope you never record another.

[Kevin]

Hi Bob;
I don't think anyone here would disagree with either you or snowman with regard to your comments.
My earlier comments were why the spruce reacted the way it did after it was cut.
If you go back you'll see where I said don't fall trees into other trees for the reason you mention.
We don't know where the spruce was gunned, something else like a weight factor or tapered hinge could have pulled it over , sometimes when you think you've done everything right, things go wrong.
I doubt if anyone would intentially drop a tree into another creating more work for themselves and increasing the chance for something to go wrong.
We've all made bad cuts for several different reasons and this one isn't any different.
There's usually more than one reason for accidents occurring and this one had a few.

[Mooseherder]

Sometimes it isn't what we say but how we say it eh?
This was a educational video for me and glad Q posted it.  I'm sure that is why he posted it, and not to come across as funny.  Giddy no one got hurt seems more appropriate.  When the day is done and you reflect on it, you can laugh at your mistakes, learn from them and move on.  Beating yourself up, serves absolutely no purpose.  When you look at what he goes through to get to the logs and given the enviroment they're in, there isn't a whole lot of room for error with any of their daily activities.

[rebocardo]

> We've all made bad cuts for several different reasons

Truer words were never spoken, I was not lucky enough to catch mine on video 

[snowman]

There is another thing that can make a tree do like the one in the video, another dumb mistake I lived through . One winter I had a red fir 2 ft on the butt, the only place to fall it was over a bent over birch that looked like the McDonalds golden arch.There was 3 ft of snow and i didn't want to swim out 50 feet to snip this birch, plus it was under so much stress that it looked scary.I opted to crash the big red fir through it but to my surprise the birch neither broke or pushed over.Instead I was looking straight up at the red fir but 20 ft over my head. I was down in a hole i had dug to get to FS 12" mineral soil requirement and thought about curling up around the stump and hoping for the best. Instead I ran out my escape trail and went to leap on a snag that i had previously cut but it was frozen solid and my corks were dull (dumb mistake number2).After a couple slips I finally caught hold and got on the snag and WHAM! the red fir butt crashed right where I had been  standing. Then I remembered, nothings stronger than an arch! DOOOOOOH!

[LEES WOODCO]

Better start using open face notches and leaving a hinge or you're gonna end up DEAD!

[dnalley]

ID4ster, what is this site bar on a chainsaw?  Sounds like something I need to know.Not to sound dumb, but sometimes... Thanks

[Jeff]

ID4ster, what is this site bar on a chainsaw?  Sounds like something I need to know.Not to sound dumb, but sometimes... Thanks

Link showing example of Chainsaw gunning sights

[Reddog]

Here are what the Stihl Gunning lines look like.
They are the black lines circled in red. They rap around the saw on the recoil,top and chain cover.
My little MS170 even has them.

 

[Kevin]

You can use the bar as well.

[ID4ster]

Dnalley,

The link by Jeff and the picture from Reddog show what the siting bar is and how it can be used. I was taught the importance of using the site bar by some professional fallers that worked in the big old growth timber ofthe Olympic peninsula and southeast Alaska. That timber was too valuable mess up and the fallers had to know their business before they could get a job working in those areas. What the site bar does is to allow you to determine where the tree will fall and hit the gorund before you complete all the cuts. Now I use the humboldt method for falling timber and on my initial cut as soon as I get a bars width into the tree I push the dogs of the saw tight to the bark and then look down the site bar from the back and that is the important part. You can not look at a site bar from the top correctly. You have to get down and look at it from the back just like a gun sight. As you look out the bar you'll see where you're lining up the tree to hit. At this point you can adjust the rest of your initial cut to make sure that the tree is going to hit where you want it to. Say you need to fall a tree between a couple of leave trees and as you look at your site bar you can see that you're not lined up correctly. You can than adjust your initial cut to line up the tree correctly before you match up the rest of your undercut. Once you complete the rest of the undercut correctly you come in with the back cut (I don't use boring cuts except in special circumstances that require it) keeping your hinge the same width and putting a wedge in if necessary and as the tree begins to fall and break off the hinge it will fall in the direction of the undercut that you already know is the correct placement of the tree from using the site bar. Using the site bar also allows you to see if there is anything in the way of where your tree will hit such as a stob or small springy tree so that they can be cleared out before you finish off your undercut. As the other thread says; If you want to do directional falling or are required to do it than you need to be aware of your site bar and know how use it. All makes of saws have them but a lot of people don't use them or use them incorrectly.    

[dancan]

Hey Quebecnewf , I'm glad that you could share the video with us all .
I'll bet there were a few "Notre Pere" going through the head when it got quiet .
I regard those moments as a reminder that we are only passengers and are along for a ride so take care and make sure all your paperwork is up to date and in order

Do you have the video posted somewhere with a larger size ?

[Kevin]

Double click it and hit the button on the bottom right.

[rockenbman]

Just goes to show learn somthin new every day.I cut and didnt even now about the sight line.Feel like need to go 2 school or somthing.

[asy]

Wow,

I'm just catching up with this thread. Not quite sure whether you felled the tree, or it felled you

Seriously, though, great learning footage, thanks so much for sharing it. When bad (or embarrassing) things happen it's all to easy to 'shelve them' so as not to risk people possibly laughing or deriding you.

The truth is, we are all (or should be) very grateful for your bravery. I know I learned things from watching that footage, and I will be safer felling trees because of it.

So, thank you.

asy

PS: I'm REALLY glad you weren't hurt.