How long to Dry Red Oak in the house

[james04]

Hello all,

New to the forum and have some questions regarding processing my own flooring. I am in the planing stages of doing some Red Oak flooring in my new home (2000sqft). I have done some searches but have not been able to find the answer to this question. If I stack and sticker the 4/4 oak in my home. Currently heated with a wood stove. Average humidity is between 30 and 40%. How long will it take the dead green oak to be ready for milling into flooring? Also I only have a small craftsman 6" jointer. So is it absolutely necessary to joint the face of the boards before planing. I will be running them through an woodmaster planer/molder. The flooring would likely be 2 1/4,3 1/4,4 1/4 mix.

Any other advise would be appreciated.

James   

[Riles]

The rule of thumb for air drying is one year for every inch of thickness. Some woodworkers do the outside thing for a year and then stack it in the house to get down the last 2-3%. The best answer is to invest in a moisture meter and skip all the uncertainty. Might save you a bunch of time if it's ready, say, 4 months early.

I can't speak to the woodmaster moulder, but you have to joint one face first for reference if you expect to have square edges on your lumber.

[beenthere]

Welcome to the forum James04

The question you ask is a big one...you said 'dead green'.. would you clarify that a bit?  I take it as being fresh off the saw.

Putting green oak in the low humidity/heat of your house might give you some pretty severe checking. But there is information about how to dry green oak if you search the forum, as well as in drying handbooks available to you.

Knowing the moisture content, and tracking it with sample boards would be your best bet. But it won't be dry yet this winter season. I'd be stickering it outside until next winter season, then bring it into the house, if no kiln-type controls (heat/humidity/air flow/ venting) were used.

[Radar67]

Welcome to the forum James.

I would dry the oak outside for a season as Beenthere suggests. If you are in a hurry, search the forum for solar kilns and build yourself a temporary kiln to bring the moisture down. Or, consider stacking the lumber in your garage, if you have one, for the season. The main thing to remember for air drying is to protect the stack from rain and moisture while still allowing air circulation.

I can't speak to the woodmaster moulder, but you have to joint one face first for reference if you expect to have square edges on your lumber.

I have to disagree with Riles. There are many ways to get a square edge on lumber without having to face joint first. Personally, I run the lumber through the planer first, both faces. Then I will either joint the edge or run it through the tablesaw.

[David Freed]

If you put green lumber in your house with the humidity being that low, it is possible it would dry too fast and you might get some surface checking. This is just guess work, but if you put a humidifier in your house along with the lumber, you could slow down the initial drying rate. The problem is, this late in winter, you will be shutting down your woodstove before the lumber gets dry.

The "one year per inch rumor" just won't die. 4/4 lumber only needs 3 or 4 months of air drying in warm weather (6 months in winter) to bring the moisture down about as low as it will go on its own. Then put it in a kiln or by a woodstove like James04 suggested.

As far as getting straight blanks is concerned, running the lumber through an edge or face jointer is an unneeded step. You are just trying to get an edge to run through a machine, not make glue ups.  I have a Woodmaster 718 set up permanently as a straightline & gangrip saw to make blanks for my Logosol 4 head moulder. We usually skip plane our lumber first,  although a few times when we just ran rough lumber through the Woodmaster. We haven't had any trouble with the blanks not being straight and ready for the moulder.

If you want to see how I set up my Woodmaster, go here. 1st post is about halfway down the page.
http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,26055.20.html

[james04]

Thank you all for your suggestions. After I posted. I was starting to think about the oak drying too fast in the house. Some of my 2x12 DF headers have dried to half inch under there original width and yes some of them have checks in them. Ok, it seems like I am better of getting it Kiln dried. My construction loan term will be up in five months so air drying is out.

I have two option regarding Kiln service. The first is at 20cents/bf. However that guy has a small 3000bf Nile dehumidification Kiln and wants me to air dry for two months outside. He then says it will kiln dry for 12 days and be at 6-8%. Does that sound ok. The other is a large operation for 40 cents/bf. They will pre dry in a kiln. Take out for I am not sure how long and then into another kiln. I belive he said total of 60 days start to finish. But the wood will not be in a kiln the whole 60 days. Which one do you think sounds better. I of coarse would like to save some money and go with the first guy(small local business). However 12 days seemed kind of short.

Dave that is a very nice set up. Perhaps a bit too rich for my blood at this time. Could you please describe what a strait line rip is. I assumed it meant that the board was fed into the the saw independent of any kind of fence. Thus straiting the board. Is this what the feeders do?

James

[gharlan]

Yes James a straight line rip puts a straight edge on a piece of lumber. There are dedicated saws that do only this( straight line rip saw) the newer ones use a visible line laser to line the board edge up to cut. They are just massive machines that can hold the board and pull it through without it slipping. I think david is straight line ripping and gang ripping in one pass on his planer molder. The machine has its own feed system for the lumber but they might not be enough to hold it rigidly enough to get a good straight edge but with the additional external feeders it probably works great. I really have never seen the woodmaster so I may be wrong and it may do a great job by itself.  Gary

[james04]

Thank you Gary,

I have been reading some of the old posts and have a much better understanding of it now. So that has me wondering about the woodmaster being able to do strait line rips in the gang sawing mode.

James

[beenthere]

James04
In my way of thinking about it, if there is a long fence like David appears to have, and the horns of a board are kept tight to that fence, it (woodmaster) will simulate a straight-line rip.
But for an 8' board, the fence will have to be a bit more than twice that length. Note the long tables David shows in his pics.

Straight line rip saws grasp the board between rollers and heavy tracks that hold it in a straight line for the rip. Very heavy equipment and careful setup and maintenance is needed to keep it tracking straight. One can clamp a straight board to a crooked board, and run the straight one against a fence on a table saw to accomplish this to a degree, as well.

[scsmith42]

James, I think that both of the kiln drying options are feasable.

Red oak is a slow drying wood, typically I target 3 - 4% per day in my DH kiln.  The most critical stages of the drying process are from green down to 35% MC, or thereabouts.  It is during this stage that many drying defects occur, even though they may not become visible until the wood is below 25% MC.

The drawback with air drying is that you have little, if any control over the daily drying rate, unlike in a kiln.  So the company that KD's the entire load, in my opinion, may provide you with a higher recovery rate from your lumber.

If you go the air drying route, be sure to cut extra to make up for that which you lose to degrade. 

Either way should work.  If you AD, I would suggest using dry stickers on 16" centers.

Scott

[ohsoloco]

I noticed that James asked about face jointing boards before going through the planer, which would be the wide portion of the board. Straight line ripping would be in regards to the edge of the boards. 

I have no idea how a woodmaster works, so I'm basing my response on a "normal" planer that planes one face at a time.  If you were to take a twisted board and run it through a planer, it would come out being twisted after planing, because it simply makes the two faces parallel.  When making furniture parts I rough cut them out of my boards, and then run a face across the jointer so I have a perfectly flat face.  That way the other rough cut face will be made flat and parallel to the jointed face. 

A 6" jointer wouldn't be a problem making the width of flooring you want, but the length of the tables would be.  It makes if difficult to get a straight, flat edge (or face) of a stick of lumber if it is much longer than your infeed table.  If I do have a board that is a lot longer than my infeed table, I usually put it "hump down" on the table, hogging off wood from the middle until I get the whole edge jointed.  This works best if your board is no more than double the length of your jointer infeed table. 

[james04]

Well, I am very pleased with all of the responses to my post. Very helpful. Thank you all. FYI Woodmaster 718 on order. I am thinking I will go with the local guy for the kiln drying service. I respect the opinions offered and if they are equal why pay more to the big operation that will require a trucking service. Verses the small guy who I can deliver to in my pickup in three trips.

James 

[james04]

I forgot to mention. Regarding strait line rip. I have a tentative solution that I fond in an old post. It is a rip carriage a la fine woodworking. http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesPDF.aspx?id=2682

From Fine Woodworking #145

James

[David Freed]

In answer to some of the comments about my setup, it does take one pass on an unstraight-edged board to make straight blanks. I already had the Versafeeders, and they are what keeps the board against the fence to get a straight edge. The Woodmaster by itself won't hold the board straight. Concerning face jointing, I am not saying it doesn't have its place. In my case, if a board is twisted very badly, we just throw it away. That is cheaper than paying for the labor to make it usable. If it is just a slight twist, we just plane it with the rest of the lumber and it can usually be used without problems. I built this setup as a cheap way to get production, because as I said, I already had some of the things to make it. It is just one step below an expensive commercial machine.

[solidwoods]

The "one year per inch rumor" just won't die.

That's because lumber drying/seasoning/movement is based on average annual humidity.
If you air dry for 3-months ending in the summer, the wood won't be as dry as if you had dried ending in the spring (less humidity in the cold wx of winter).

I'd take the lumber to a kiln and have it done right.
We charge .20bf for kiln
$1.25 your logs into T/G flooring
$1.05 your lumber into t/g flooring (includes kiln)

So its not worth reinventing the wheel and maybe getting it right.

That goes double for reinventing the reinvented wheel.
jim

[james04]

"$1.05 your lumber into t/g flooring (includes kiln)"

The best I could do was $1.35 and that was up in Mass. Not in CT. Ct was allot higher. SO there would be a transportation expense as well.

James