What Ethanol Free gas for saw?

[D._Frederick]

Al,

Have you ever seen the fuel filters with the little glass bowl, and have seen water in the bottom of the bowl? This water has come out of the gas. and the gas is floating on top of the water.

It sound to me if your saws are so old, they have a float carburators and the new formula of gas won't bother them.

[John Mc]

I wonder if a person can get the alcohol out of the fuel my using a large plastic jug that are used for water coolers and adding a quart of water, then pouring in a couple gallon of alcohol gas in the jug. Then shake the hell out of it and let the water settle to the bottom. A person should be able to siphon the good gas off. ??

Yes, you can do that, in theory. That's the basis for a test that is used to check autogas for alcohol content before fueling a plane. Take about 10 parts of the gas, add one part water, and shake. Let it settle. If what appears to be water in the bottom is greater than before, you have alcohol in the gas. It just combined with the water and settled out. Unfortunately, the alcohol is where part of that mix's octane rating came from. Once it drops out, you have significantly lower octane rating... not good for a chainsaw.

I don't generally run Autogas in my Cessna 172, but have done so on occasion. I always do this test before adding the fuel to the tanks. I don't need it eating up my aluminum tanks, or messing with fuel hoses or O-rings. That sort of thing can ruin your whole day.

John Mc

[John Mc]

Oh my,you folks must all me using racing engines or somthing judging by the comments and paranoia of mixed gasoline .

Now I attempt to run only non blended gasoline in my saws but it's not always possible,hasn't hurt them yet .I've got saws that are older than most people that post on these internet sites ,still running great .

If you run ethanol mix gas while it's still fresh, you may never have a problem. The problem is that ethanol is hygroscopic - it attracts water, and can even pull it in out of the moisture in the air. If the moisture does get into the fuel, it will mix with the ethanol and settle out. If this is in your saw's fuel tank, it will suck in a slug of the alcohol water mix. If your luck, the saw will just sputter or die. If you're unlucky, you've just spun your saw with no engine lubrication. Enough of that, and you've toasted your engine. Not as big a deal on a four stroke engine, since the fuel mix isn't what lubricates the engine. (I've heard new formulations of ethanol mix are supposed to be a bit better for this, but I can't swear to that.)

I've also heard that the ethanol mix can break down the fuel-oil mix more quickly, but I haven't verified that.

At any rate, if you use it up quickly, it's probably not a huge issue. But I generally don't use a gallon in one shot... it tends to sit for a bit. Thus my concern about using ethanol mix gas.

John Mc

[D._Frederick]

John Mc

My understanding of the modern 2 cycle engine is the carburation system. It uses a diaphram to meter fuel into the combustion chamber. Fuel with alochol tends to react with the diaphram effecting the way it flexes, reducing the fuel to the engine. I have been told that the mfg's have not been able to get material that will work with both pure gas and with alcohol fuel.

[Al_Smith]

  Well now that I've got you all wound up my job is done .

Sure,if you only use about a gallon of saw gas a year  you are going to have problems but you would with straight gasoline also . Two gallons during the off season last me about a month.If I'm cutting heavy it lasts part of a day.

Of course I know how a sediment bowl works but you can't suck the ethonal out of gasoline by adding water to it .--and yes I think one of my antique Homelites does have a bowl on it .I believe it might have came over on the Mayflower  back in the days of iron men and wooden ships .That thing is kind of a boat anchor now but when I get the time I'll make it putt again .

You can run av gas,cam 2 ,rocket fuel whatever .They really have no better affect on a stock saw than good old fashion high test gasoline .Don't take my word for it though,go ahead and try it,let us know how it comes out .

[John Mc]

I don't think anyone on this thread was suggesting using 100 LL as a means to get more power/performance out of their saws... it was purely a means of avoiding ethanol related problems.

If you can get ethanol laced gas to last you a month, you are doing far better than I am. I've had it break down in as little as 10 days. It's enough of a problem that the fuel stabilizer people are working on new formulations to try to help. I know Stabil has one out designed for use with ethanol/gas mix. I haven't tried it yet, though.

John Mc

[Al_Smith]

 Oh I won't argue the point that ethonal is a little hard on the carb innerds. I just recently rebuilt a carb on a 181 Huskey that had a diaphragm that was hard as a rock . However it was more due to it setting idle for several years  with a carb full of fuel.Not my saw by the way but I'm guilty of not running them dry also .

If you do that on a regular bassis you become very good at rebuilding carbs .

Even with the modern formulation of todays gasoline you have problems ,with or without the ethonal .

Just so you all don't fell like chainsaw owners are the only one affected by this, it's also hard on small engine carbs like a lawnmower . Then again if you mowed your lawn once a week ,year round you wouldn't have a problem . Kind hard to do in my neck of the woods.It kinda snows a little in the winter time ya know .

[PC-Urban-Sawyer]

... Then again if you mowed your lawn once a week ,year round you wouldn't have a problem . Kind hard to do in my neck of the woods.It kinda snows a little in the winter time ya know .

You could rig an adapter that'd turn the lawnmower into a snowblower and keep on chugging along...

[Mad Professor]

Well now that I've got you all wound up my job is done .

Sure,if you only use about a gallon of saw gas a year  you are going to have problems but you would with straight gasoline also . Two gallons during the off season last me about a month.If I'm cutting heavy it lasts part of a day.

Of course I know how a sediment bowl works but you can't suck the ethonal out of gasoline by adding water to it .--and yes I think one of my antique Homelites does have a bowl on it .I believe it might have came over on the Mayflower  back in the days of iron men and wooden ships .That thing is kind of a boat anchor now but when I get the time I'll make it putt again .

You can run av gas,cam 2 ,rocket fuel whatever .They really have no better affect on a stock saw than good old fashion high test gasoline .Don't take my word for it though,go ahead and try it,let us know how it comes out .

Hi Al,

You can extract ethanol from gasoline using water.  2-3 extractions will remove it all but the formulation of the gas will be different without the alcohol as mentioned above.  Nearly all C1-C4 alcohols are miscible (soluble in all proportions) in water and are readily extracted, chemists do this using a device called a separatory funnel.  A drying agent (i.e. anhydrous sodium sulfate) can then be used to remove the last traces of water followed by gravity filtration of the extract. You will end up with very dry fuel with no alcohol, the octane rating will be ??

IMHO , I prefer just using AV gas and paying ca. 60-100 cents more per gallon for better fuel that will not eat the rubber parts in my engines.

Best,  MP

[Al_Smith]

 Well o.k. run av gas .Now while you are on this subject of rubber deteriation figure some simple way to stop the av mounts on a Stihl from being eaten up by the bar oil .-- and no I'm not going to use veggie oil either .

[zopi]

Gotta saw I'm runnin' on jet fuel...but then it has a gas turbine engine out of a tomahawk missille on board...cuts fast..

anybody think i oughta be usin' synthetic oil in it?