Steam engine to drive generator for electricity at the sawmill & shop

[Kelvin]

I did a search and didn't come up with anything similar.  Has this one been beaten to death?  Are there such things as modern steam engines to make electric power?  Would i just have to buy a traction engine and hook it up to a pto type generator?  Anything easier, say to fabricate?  I keep burning all these tons of cut offs and watching all the btu's go up to increase the global warming.  Wish i could make some electricity with it.  Oh, well, maybe the best use is to build a hot water boiler and pipe it into the house.  I already have a woodstove in there so its not much of a savings besides keeping the mess outside and loading a bigger long lasting load.   Where to find small steam engine that makes elec?  Must be a good idea for 3rd world countries.  I've thought of wind power, we are in the worst wind area according to maps and solar, we are in the 2nd cloudest area next to seattle in the USA and we have no stream to dam even if we could, but we have lots of firewood and slabs.  Boy it would be great to burn it up and sell electricity back to the power company and get credit for my sawmill and woodshop use.  What is the word on this type of thing?  To inefficiant?  to hard to maintain rpms?
thanks for any ideas,
Kelvin

[stonebroke]

www.lehmans.com sells a home scale  steam video if you would like to see it in action

Stonebroke

[Furby]

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,23473.0.html

[Kcwoodbutcher]

The newer small scale "steam engines" are actually micro steam turbines. They are very efficient but very expensive. They are being adopted by some third world countries to power remote areas and some manufacturing companies that have a byproduct that can be put to this use. Most of these generate in the 10 KW to 50 KW range.

[trim4u2nv]

I have done a lot of research on this topic.  A microturbine would be the most efficient way to go except for the very high capital cost as mentioned in the previous post.  You can find these sometimes in an old phone company or hospital installations auctioned off or sold surplus.  But you would still have to gasify the wood to burn it external combustion.  On the cheap you could probably rig up an old natural gas (internal combustion engine. )  You typically find these on old forklifts and some stationary generators.  Not as much work as reinventing the carburetor.  FEMA has plans for free online to build a gasifier for a nationwide fuel emergency.  But they are PDF and 90 pages long so it could take a while to download (dated 1989 I think.)  Somebody on this site built a gasified truck that I could recall.  You could hook up a PTO generator easily to an old tractor running this way. 

One of the flooring mills in tennessee, that my oak supplier sells to, have microturbines burning the scraps to make electricity.  It was an entire building as I remember it.

[trim4u2nv]

Here is the link to wood gas production.   Recent article by austrailian couple is most up to date 1980's


http://highforest.tripod.com/woodgas/woodgas.html

[low_48]

Here's a site with some great info.
http://www.mikebrownsolutions.com/
After going to the Mt. Pleasant steam show last year I had the idea that a small steam powered wood lathe would be the greatest. Blow the steam whistle to announce the start of the demo............
Then I looked at the prices,  The prices on Ebay are just as bad! What looks like a rusted piece of junk steam engine will go for more that $1000. They must have plenty of Rust Reaper

[Don P]

I've wondered and might have even asked before and forgotten, would a hydraulic motor hold up?

[pineywoods]

Cheap steam turbine...google Tesla turbine...sure l;ooks interesting. One of these hooked to an automotive alternator would make a nice small package.

[twobears]

 i,ve been thinking about building a woodburning downdraft gasfier and using it to run a genarator to power my mill.i,de also tap into the coolant on the motor to provide some heat in my workshop. theres a ton of info on the web about gasifers and paul h from this forum built one to run a pickup truck.

 delbert

[Kelvin]

I was thinking more of something someone could build with off the shelf parts and use simply.  Are boilers that difficult/dangerous.  Here is an add on ebay that is along the lines of what i was thinking...

http://cgi.ebay.com/P-M-STEAM-TURBINE-MAKE-ELECTRICITY-HOT-Water-FREE-S-H_W0QQitemZ170188733894QQihZ007QQcategoryZ20594QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Where could one get or recongifure a turbine to work with steam?  What do you think the above fellow was refering to in saying "turbine that is readily available at most salvage yards"?  Hydraulic motor?  Anyone see any info on this type of unit?
thanks
kelvin

[Dave Shepard]

I think that is a cool idea Kelvin. I would think there would be some sort of agency somewhere that would want to get in the middle of it somewhere and throw a wrench in the gears. There is a mill up in Ed_K territory that is trying to develop a wood gasification plant to power their mill. I'll have to talk to a friend of mine who has been consulted on it. It sure would be a great way to get rid of our slabs, certainly better than putting them in the boiler to keep the rats warm in the barn.


Dave

[Reddog]

I would think there would be some sort of agency somewhere that would want to get in the middle of it somewhere and throw a wrench in the gears.
Dave

There are plenty of codes for them.
Hot Water Boilers and Steam in MI. have their own set of rules and Certs.

[farmerdoug]

Kelvin,

If you want off the shelf, I would wait a little for the Biomizer.  We are close to getting the first test units soon for heat.  I have been assured that they are still going all out trying to get the cogen project to work so there is your electric.  They are also looking into using the boiler for air conditioning too.

Both Jeff B and me are getting a Biomizer to test so a little trip either way will get a good look at one. 

[low_48]

I was thinking more of something someone could build with off the shelf parts and use simply.  Are boilers that difficult/dangerous.  Here is an add on ebay that is along the lines of what i was thinking...

http://cgi.ebay.com/P-M-STEAM-TURBINE-MAKE-ELECTRICITY-HOT-Water-FREE-S-H_W0QQitemZ170188733894QQihZ007QQcategoryZ20594QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Where could one get or recongifure a turbine to work with steam?  What do you think the above fellow was refering to in saying "turbine that is readily available at most salvage yards"?  Hydraulic motor?  Anyone see any info on this type of unit?
thanks
kelvin

You don't think he is talking about a turbocharger? Maybe something off an industrial diesel, or large construction equipment.

[trim4u2nv]

Wood gasifier with generator set on chevy engine


http://www.youtube.com/v/wlCzJj39cMM&rel=1

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Found this pretty interesting.

http://www.junkyardjet.com

  I'm just not getting, how to drive something with it

[dail_h]

   The problem is not with the engine. Even finding a boiler shouldn't be that difficulr. Mike Brown's site is good,thetr are a coupla companies building boilers,and engines for steam launches. The real problem for steam is maintainence. A "preassure" vessel is a nightmare to maintain,especialy with all the records that are required now. Maintaining a constant preassure is a full time job for at least one person. For heat,a hot water domestic boilerb is one thing,as long as the water is hot,you can get heat out. To get power,or useful work out,a steady preassure needs to be maintained.
   Here are some things a boiler operator needs to tend to,and keep in order. The most important thing is the water level. With an engine running,you are constantly removing water,it must be replaced,hence a feed water pump. To make sure you have water for the feed water pump,you will need a cold water pump. Steam preassure needs to be maintained,so someone needs to tend the fire. There is a significant difference in keeping steam up,and keeping a fire in the boiler.Of course,you will want to keep a good eye on the stack,DNR EPA  get really interested in stack emmissions from a power boiler. Oh,that's another point,the requirements andregulations are very different for a "POWER" boiler as opposed to a "process" boiler. Did I mention blow down,and the resulting "hazardous" byproducts thereof? "Course there is always insurance,and mandatory inspections for preassure vessels.
   Steam is a very efficient and reliable source of power,however,it doesen't scale down very well.One could eaisly tend to a boiler engine generator. The problem is , that's about all you could do,and the amount of electric that you would be able to sell back to the utility would be infintestanably small. For those of us with wood product wastes,it would be fantastic. It would also have a very high kool factor. Unfortunely small scale steam power is about as practicle as a screen door on a submarine.
   S real shame too

[olyman]

screen door on a sub------ , anyway--theres a dairy farm not far from me--they are generating methane gas--and using the heat of it to power a turbine--and this aint no 3000 acre farm and dairy--so--its all possible--just the startup costs that are spoken of----im going over there one of these days to check it out--same boat as you--have something to burn--that would create a lot of heat--and it would be a ongoing usage----

[sawdust]

Is there any possibility that a Sterling engine could run a generator? All I really know about them is that one side is hot and the other cold. They are sort of a closed loop engine.

sawdust

[Ianab]

Is there any possibility that a Sterling engine could run a generator? All I really know about them is that one side is hot and the other cold. They are sort of a closed loop engine.

sawdust

Not a crazy idea.

In the 70s AMC actually built a prototype Sterling engine car (OK it was a Pacer). But it could run on petrol, diesel or alcohol and actually got better mileage than a standard engine. Main problem was that it took a minute or so to heat the engine before you could drive. And then petrol got cheap again and the idea was dropped.

The main problem with doing it now is that you cant buy a usefull Stirling engine off the shelf for any sensible price. Seems the only ones you can get now is little desktop demo ones.

But it may be an idea who's time has come again.

This company makes heating units for remote locations that have a small sterling engine built in to produce usefull amounts of electricity as well as heat.
http://www.whispergen.com/main/technology/

As an ad-on to a bio-mizer that could generate a usefull few kw of electricity from the waste heat going up the flue it would be a great option for anyone trying to go off grid.

Cheers

Ian

[clousert]

 i,ve been thinking about building a woodburning downdraft gasfier and using it to run a genarator to power my mill.i,de also tap into the coolant on the motor to provide some heat in my workshop. theres a ton of info on the web about gasifers and paul h from this forum built one to run a pickup truck.

 delbert

twobears, we've thought of this too.  If anyone in central PA has a unit like this, I'd love to see it.  Old engines are cheap, and smoke is easier to make than heat.  I have researched it a little bit.  I don't know how the engine will hold up long term, and what kind of emissions you'd be looking at.

[JimMartin9999]

Here is a company that actually sells small steam engines and gives a realistic list of considerations about their use.
http://www.tinypower.com/