Stimulus package and the economy

[Handy Andy]

  Speaking of lobbyists, if they really wanted campaign finance reform, seems to me they would have stopped corporations from donating money.  Corporations are an entity that does not vote.  If you stopped the lawyers from sueing "spelling?" doctors, health care costs would come down on their own.  But hospitals always have been high priced.  When I was a kid, if you had no insurance, you got a cheaper price for  cash.  Less paperwork. I'd like the farm program to be scrapped. They include too much in it that limits what comodities are worth, as well as too many regulations. When they need a new bill, the grain companies write it.  ThInk that's good for farmers?  My dad used to say he got 200 dollars from the farm program, and the big farmer next door got a new combine.  That kind of discriminates against the small farmer.  Not worth putting up with their bs.  That's what I think about most programs.  Only good for the big.  They include so many regulations that the small are pushed out of business.  Guess who writes the program?  Think about the regulations for the HVAC business.  See conglomerates buying up those businesses and corporatizing them.  Jim

[SwampDonkey]

Well I believe in helping the farmers in certain areas. I don't believe in giving someone money to do less or nothing, such as growing less acres or corn. What I would support is help with veternary medicine, land improvements (that would include lime), crop insurance, marketing. I'd pretty much leave everything else up to destiny and demand that all imports meet local environmental, food safety and labor standards. We have all kinds of bureaucrats that like trade missions, it could double as inspections. Heck we have missions to inspect weapons of mass destruction.    Regarding buildings, land purchases and machinery, borrow the money like anyone else.

[OneWithWood]

Good points, everyone.

The problem I see with the line item veto is that it can be abused easily to block legislation that has been worked out collaboratively, in good faith, by congress.  It takes a 2/3 majority to overide a veto.  That is a considerably higher bar than a simple majority to pass legislation.  If there are no earmarks the only reason to have a line item veto is for blocking purposes. 

[johnjbc]

Doesn’t seem right for Congress to pass any thing that benefits only one part of the country. A 2/3 majority vote requirement would be a good idea. If Il. Needs a new “What Ever” the state should pay for it, not me unless I live there. The problem is that one good item has 10 Pork Items attached and 90%  of our money is wasted. I’m all for line Item veto. The President wouldn’t get away with using it on something everyone wants.

[DanG]

OWW, I see your point, and share your concern about that aspect of it.  However, if the earmarks only are subject to individual Veto, the President could send them back to Congress for further consideration.  Many times, an issue can be resolved between the two branches by compromising after a Veto.  In other words, Congress can clean a bill up and send it back to the White House without overriding a Veto.  I agree that a true "Line Item Veto" on bills that have been through the process could be a dangerous thing, but I really disdain all of the unrelated riders the Pres. has to approve just to get the big issues resolved.

[flip]

If McCain wins the big dance I think you will see an end to the ear mark.  This wasteful spending has to stop and this is a good place to start.  A great statement from Bush was that if a rider/earmark is important enough to be crammed into a bill at last minute it is worthy of being debated on open floor and put to a vote.  I noted in the state of the union address that when he said this the republicans stood and applauded and the dems. sat there.  This is common sense stuff, how could anyone in their right mind say it is ok to spend millions for peanut storage, studying the mating habits of beavers, bridges to no where.  My tax dollar is not best spent "Toledo Public Schools for a nutrition demonstration program linked to locally provided food"  at a cool $250,000.  A lot of the ear marks are for "equipment" or "upgrades" to colleges or hospitals.  My question is don't colleges and hospitals charge enough to buy this stuff for themselves   Why can't this stuff be out in the open before it hits a major bill or put into seperate "miscellaneous" spending bills.

[DanG]

Just for the record, I'd like to see the end of Earmarks, too, but I just don't think it is gonna happen.  That's why I'm proposing something that would make it easier to live with.  Presidential candidates are notorious for promising things that they couldn't possibly deliver, even in the best of circumstances.  I just like to think of solutions that have a better chance of actually coming about.  The President doen't make the rules for Congress.  If McCain were going to make that change, being a senior Senator is a better position to do it.

[flip]

...but if he throws the veto pen at enough stuff because of ear marks congress will get the message and have to find another loop hole.  It will be extremely hard to get enough on board to override a veto, at least I can't remember the last time it happened.  If it congress does get loaded up on one side though, look out.

[OneWithWood]

Unfortunately the veto pen doesn't get exercised in an even handed way.  Have you noticed the upsurge in vetos once the Republicans did not have total control.  The pork did not decrease.  The porkers changed spots 

[Greg]

...but if he throws the veto pen at enough stuff because of ear marks congress will get the message and have to find another loop hole.  It will be extremely hard to get enough on board to override a veto, at least I can't remember the last time it happened.  If it congress does get loaded up on one side though, look out.

Generally people are against "ear marks" in general, but when it comes to local request for projects, suddenly the "all ear marks are bad" argument gets real fuzzy. Then it turns into the exception - but MY local project is legitimate, will bring jobs, etc. its not a waste of money. Even Ron Paul admitted he supported some things for his district in Texas that are essentially "bring home the bacon" projects.

In terms of spending, ear marks represent a small fraction of overall spending. Mandatory entitlement spending is what is going to bankrupt the country. I don't see *any* of the candidates even talking about reforming SS, Medicare, etc. Instead some want to even cast the social services safety net even wider. So earmarks get all the buzz, but really amount to a flea on the dog.

So I guess I have a hard time swallowing W's state of the union speech talking tough about vetoing ear marks, or when tells the dems they are irresponsible for expanding SCHIP (children's health insurance) when he oversaw one the expansion of one largest new entitlement programs in the history of the nation, prescription benefits for seniors.

Here's one guy David M Walker (not a politican) who gets it. He has done alot to bring these issues to light, and into mainstream focus. But these hard choices/issues barely are mentioned during the election cycle.

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/business/hancock/blog/2008/02/governments_only_fiscal_trutht.html

"The United States' current course of deficit spending and debt buildup will ruin the dollar, cripple the economy, require confiscatory taxes from our grandchildren and severely restrict policy choices decades from now"

Here's another related link:

http://www.concordcoalition.org/events/fiscal-wake-up/docs/fwut-candidate-questions.html

Greg

[flip]

The idea is to keep the extras off big bills, if they have merit debate them and put them in a differnt funding package.  The extra scrappola gets tacked on generally on the BIG bills that have to be passed in some form.  It is just a chicken poo way for some senator to get a plaque on the wall in some building. 

It really does not matter which party wants to tack on extras to a bill but I think Bush is the first that has come out and put a line in the sand, hopefully subsequent presidents do the same.  It's not a party thing, though I did find it disgusting that the democrats did not show the same enthusiasm as the republicans.  Makes you wonder why

[beenthere]

And it buys that congressman votes from his constituents...better believe it. Another good reason for term limits on the buggers..

I'll look back and enjoy the many things that Pres Bush has done, that I like. He took on the beast...and it's been a tough battle, and he will go down with the battle scars... better'n the chicken poo backbone that was there before, ...or that we have to look forward to in the near future. Brace your selves....we'll have the riff raff on our shores.

[pigman]

It has arrived.   No, not my stimulus check, a letter stating that the IRS is going to sent me a check. I suppose the IRS wants me to be all warmed up and prepared to stimulate. I am not sure how much stimulating I can do with the check, but I am going to try real hard to get the economy stimulated. 

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Guess that letter is a form of IRS foreplay, huh pigman?

[pineywoods]

Got mine this week. Used it to pay my quarterly income tax makes a lot of sense don't it

[Handy Andy]

  Mine was on my last bank statement.  Not planning to go spend it on anything special.  Figure the gas price will use it up soon enough.
   Now that we have a Rep President and a Dem congress, see why people like it divided that way.  Pres Bush grew a veto pen finally, although seemed he needed one for the last several years.  Jim

[zopi]

...haven't read the thread, so I'm not trying to rebut anything...but...Stimulus package? BAH!

Kwit pouring billion after billion into other countries without return on investment, and put it into
our economy...

did I say billion...sorry i missed a few zeroes..meant Go-zillion...

Brazillion?