light bulbs

[turningfool]

just heard that they are obsoleteing incandescant bulbs in the states starting in 2012..better buy your 25 watters now

[farmerdoug]

Where did you hear that?

[Furby]

It's been posted here before and I've heard it on TV several times.
Don't know if it will really happen though.

[Part_Timer]

we found out Wednesday from our electrical supply house that when the inventory of mercury vapor lights and parts are gone they are gone.  The manufacturers are not allowed to make any more.  Better get a couple of bulbs while you can.

[Gary_C]

So they are eliminating incandescents that are non hazardous and replacing them with fluorescents that contain mercury and are hazardous waste.  Then eliminate mercury vapor that are hazardous also.  Must make sense to somebody. 

[Mooseherder]

I think this was part of the new energy bill just signed into law.

[Deadwood]

So they are eliminating incandescents that are non hazardous and replacing them with fluorescents that contain mercury and are hazardous waste.  Then eliminate mercury vapor that are hazardous also.  Must make sense to somebody. 

It makes sense to me. I am in the process of switching to 100% CFL's and I am 90% there. Currently I just have to switch some outdoor lights over to them. Right now these lights are not used that much so the cost savings will be nill. But still I wish the CFL haters would read the packaging first, buy the appropriate bulb for the application, and just be happy with them.

They come in different light outputs and as we found out, clear CFLs, and white light CFLS have their places and by getting them mixed up, you run into problems. Get them right and they are indeed a gift to mankind?

How? By saving the northeast from mercury. I know I know, CFL's have a TRACE of mercury in them, but did you know children and pregnant women are not supposed to eat the fresh water fish here because of mercury. That mercury comes from the coal fired plants in the midwest producing power. If everyone in the midwest switched to CFL's and just one or two coal plants could be shut down, we would save tons of mercury being driven into the air, and ultimately landing on Maine. I have nothing against the midwesterner's, they feed this nation, provide wood products and have as much right to power as we do, but please look at the situation for what it is,power conservation is the answer here and the CFL light bulb is PART of the answer.

Currently Maine has several windfarms that are going up. Ordinarily I would think this was good, but the owners of these wind plants are from the midwest power producers. Windplants allow them to get green credits that keep them from installing smog devices on their coal fired powerplants. Yes we get renewable kilowatts, but there is no reduction in mercury. Its a catch 22. We need incentives to install large scale windplants, and increase the kw output of the grid, yet the mercury poising still comes with the prevailing wind. The only true way to stop this is via conservation. CFL's will allow this country to maintain its lifestyle and yet reduce consumption. It was part of the energy bill because if they did not ban MOST of the incandescent light bulbs, people would continue to use them. Its sad, but it takes mandates sometimes to force people to do what is right.

Also check for incentives to buy them. Currently Maine has a program called "Efficiency Maine" and there is a website about the program. I think Mainers can get 50% of the cost of CFL bulbs for residents and even more for companies. The company I work for is expanding its lightning system and only has to pay for installation of these new lights. The material costs are paid by the Maine PUC. Check into it if you live in Maine. If not,see what your state has for a program. You might be surprised.

Its actually surprising but Washington DC actually did the right thing this time. Incandescent light bulbs have been outdated,and inefficient for years.

[turningfool]

how do the new bulbs start in really cold applications?..i do know that their flourescents arent very adaptable to cold climes from experience..have they upgraded them?

[Brian_Rhoad]

What are we going to do with the fluorescents when the burn out? They can't be put in the garbage like incandescant bulbs. To me, it is just idiotic to replace something that is completely safe with something that is known to be a problem. There are very few people I've talked to that are satisfied with their performance. I know I can't get used to the constant "flickering".

[Norm]

I have them in my garage TF and they're a joke. They take forever to start up in this cold weather and then they tend to flicker for some time. The bulb says it replaces a 100W bulb but it's more like a 60W in comparison to the ones I replaced. Normally I just need to turn on the garage lights for a few seconds. With these I end up having to turn them on for much longer just to get them up to speed. I'm guessing that my savings in electricity is nil and that the higher cost of the bulbs just about makes it a money losing deal.

Why don't we just build a couple of more nuke plants and quit worrying about everything.

[Furby]

The poll from last spring:
http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=25310.0

[rebocardo]

Well, I went almost all CFL in my houses a few years ago when they were very expensive, but, they are just unsuitable for a few things.

Such as outdoor instant on light or when it is cold, they take forever to produce light. They do come in a few flavors and I like the clear ones for reading lamps, as an example. I like them in my automotive drop lamps because they hold up to impacts better.

Probably the biggest victims of this law will be poor people and landlords. Especially landlords when people steal all the bulbs when they leave a place, then the landlords have to replace them with CFL bulb$ instead on a reg. basis.

[breederman]

I replaced most of the bulbs in the house with cfls, I am already replacing several I wonder if placing them in horizontal type fixtures affects their life?

[Quartlow]

Some seem to be better than others. Wife got some at wally world, slow to start and I don't think the output is that great. We got some different ones at Home Depot that work much better, brighter initial start up and very short warm up times.

breederman
You didn't put them in an enclosed fixture did you?

[Reddog]

I have had problems with them in enclosed fixtures. I have two on the counter burnt up right now. They are no were near their there life exp. Both of these were mounted horizontal.
 So I am not sold on them. Had one outside in the U.P. and at anything below 40F they are slow, at -40 they are worth less.

 I like some of the new 110 volt Halogen bulbs out now. Lower watt, higher lumiens seem to have a good life exp., and in the cold work fine.

[farmerdoug]

Deadwood,

Do not attribute all of the mercury to coal plants.  We have a real problem in the UP of Michigan with mercury contaminated fish some lakes too.  They were blaming coal but there were no coal plants in the general downwind area plus it is not all lakes.  They have since found out that the acid rain is releasing the mercury from the bedrock and soils up there.  That is the main source for the mercury in the UP.  I am not saying that the coal plants are causing your problems but that pollution in general has a major effect too.

I vote for wind farms and solar panels too.  But people seem to hate windmill generators and solar cells are still to exspensive to install right now.  When they get down to a dollar a watt I will be putting them up on my southern facing roofs.

[sprucebunny]

 The company I work for is expanding its lightning system and only has to pay for installation of these new lights.

I don't see any energy saving there.

I have some CFL and they are not bright enough and the color of the light upsets me. If there weren't 14 of them in my 12 foot high garage ceiling, they would have been replaced.

[rebocardo]

You can put cfl into enclosed lamps, you just can not put them in with a normal bulb because the heat will kill them.

[thedeeredude]

Do they make LED light bulbs?  Id love to hook up led solar light bulbs. edit, just searched and they do!

[breederman]

  I have four blown cfls in the same ceiling fixture in the bathroom, horizontal but not enclosed, also one blown in our bed room, it is at about  45 degree angle they were all put in I think about a year ago and a couple of the ones in the bathroom were replaced previously also. I have about 18 other ones and we are otherwise satisfied with those.

[Dave Shepard]

As with any new technology, there will be an adjustment period for everyone to figure out how they are going to fit into the grand scheme of things. Proper application of technology is important. Lot's of people wouldn't switch from horses to tractors because they didn't understand them, and didn't apply (use) them correctly. CFLs may not be a perfect, seamless transition from the incandescent light bulbs, but in many applications, they are a huge improvement. In the grand scheme of things, they may just be a stepping stone to even better technology. I support them, even though they may not be perfect for every application. I don't know if out right banning is ideal either, sometimes you just need a different quality of light. Incandescents have lead in them, should they be thrown in the landfill? Perhaps the lead is stable enough that it won't leach, but I think that they should be recycled, seperate the lead, glass and metal. I wouldn't be surprised if someday there is another recycling bin at the transfer station for all types of old light bulbs.


Dave

[turningfoolslady]

another concern 0f mine is that eventually we will have to pay to dispose of our burnt-out cfl's as they contain a small amount of mercury(obviously a hazardous waste)at what cost would be my next question as in its not the tiny amount but the various processes to separate it from the rest of the bulb...so much for money savings

[Ianab]

Do they make LED light bulbs?  Id love to hook up led solar light bulbs. edit, just searched and they do!

LED lights will probably become more popular as the technology improves / prices drop. At present they dont have a very high light output and are too expensive.
Still usefull in places that are difficult to change a bulb and dont need bright lighting. The LEDs last a VERY long time if they aren't abused. If you have to set up a scaffold or a manlift to get to a light fittting, putting a $50 LED bulb in there that should last 20 years makes sense  

Cheers

Ian

[Don_Papenburg]

My observation on CFL s Buy American branded if at all possible, Look for 5000K light output or a daylight Rating if you want bright white light.If the package does not give a Kelvin temp rating do NOT buy the bulb.
 I have had good luck with these peramaters.  Unless I smash the bulb I have not had to replace one in three years.

[Dave Shepard]

Don, I guess that is an example of having to learn what works and what doesn't. We already know what to expect from the old ones, we just need to learn how to make the best of the new ones.


Dave

[Don_Papenburg]

I was about to give up on them . The old Utube type CFLs were very slow and not very bright .  I still have two that I should /might take a 2x too     I had not planned on getting any more , but then I was tired of replacing the regular bulbs every month. Some would not last a week    I bought my first spiral tube CFL and have not gone back .     I just hope the wizzards that get the LEDs developed have enough brains to make them screw into standard sockets.

[Homer]

RE led's. White leds don' last like the red or blue. white is not perfected

[Deadwood]

I agree that CFL's are not the end-all, be all, but ultimately I think by using LED, halogen and CFL's we will spend far less on electricity and all be better for it. Unfortunately the grid needs some serious revamping. I would love to see a few nuke plants built myself, but adding power to an aging power supply system is not going to help. Its like putting in a 200 amp service into your house. Unless you increase the size of the wire going to your shop, you can not get any more out of your new amperage. As Americans we need to realize that the grid system is aging, its running at full capacity and we need to add more transmission lines.

I don't see that happening soon. People don't want to spend money on poles and wires when they drive on pavement and never really "see" electricity to begin with. Besides adding transmission lines means cutting trees and all matter of "bad" things, and no one wants a big powerline "in their backyard". People just expect power to be there when they flip the switch. That is why I am a big proponent of conservation. If I can maintain my lifestyle and yet save kws, I think its good.

As for tossing the CFLs out, where is the rest of the country? Maine has had a CFL, halogen, incandescent lightbulb recycling program for years. I can set out my lightbulbs at the end of my driveway for recycling at the first Wednesday of every month...and I live out in the sticks even in Maine standards. Even if I was not able to do this, I could call the Efficiency Maine number and they would tell me where I could recycle them.

[PineNut]

I will probably do the same with the CFLs that I do with other mandated savers. I usually turn the lights on when I enter a room and turn them off when I leave. But when it takes so much time for the light output to some up to specs, I will just leave them on all the time. Is that energy saving?

[rebocardo]

> we will spend far less on electricity and all be better for it

That is what started it for me a few years ago when the bulbs were $8 each. I might not recoup my costs for three years on the 1st single bulb, but, when I started replacing burnt out ones one at a time, it did add up month after month. I dropped about $10 a month eventually.