Hello - new to the forum

[Meat]

Hello.  I've been reading the forum for a couple of months and really enjoy it.  I have some land in eastern NC, and want to develop a management plan.  I'm in the military and currently overseas, but will be back in early January.  I'm in the process of trying to set up appointments with the local county forester and the state guy who coordinates the NC Stewardship Forest program.

Basic info - have about 135 acres, good soils, 45 open land and about 90 acres of timber.  The timber was cut about 15 or 16 years ago and left to naturally regenerate.  Probably about 60-65 percent pine with small hardwoods mixed in.  I guess the pines are 5-6 inches in diameter and maybe 20-25 feet tall?  Maybe even a little bigger...pretty easy to walk under them.

I want to manage for recreation, wildlife, potential homesite, and future timber sales.  I don't think I will ever clearcut it again, but look at something maybe like a sheltercut?  I really like the way the georgia quail/pine plantations look with all of the controlled burning.  The land was my great grandfathers(maybe ealier), and I just want a place to enjoy and leave for my kids.  Any thoughts on meeting with the forester?  Are some of the private foresters more like timber brokers?  It seems like that is where the money would be...not writing stewardship plans.  I also would guess like all professions, there are some very good and some that need to go away. 

Anyways...just thought I would say hello and see if anyone had any advice for a newbie.  Many thanks.

I tried to upload a pic, but it was too big..didn't seem i could commpress it enough?

[Tom]

Your aims are honorable. What you posted is a good start with the forester.  You want a forester that is on your side. So, having a consulting forester is the way to go.  There are all kinds. Procurement Foresters work for the other guy and that is where you find most of the "buyers".  Your State and County people are a good place to start.  Ask them for recommendations for foresters in your area.  If you find a good one, hang onto him. Most don't have offices, nor do they market, and are hard to find.

[thecfarm]

It's good to own land.There is a help button on the top of the page to give you directions on posting pictures.May seem like a lot at first,but it is easy.Just want to welcome you to the forum and to let you know that you are in my thoughts being in the service.

[beenthere]

Welcome Meat.
Stay safe overseas, and enjoy the return to life back on your land.
In addition to what has been said, look up the NC Woodland Owners Assoc and see if you can connect with some of those woodland owners. They should have similar interests and experiences that you can gain knowledge from (as well as from the many Forestry Forum members here).
Consulting Foresters don't (can't) work for nothing, they cannot afford to do that. So plan on that investment from the start.
Several states have Forest Tax programs, that will give you a property tax break if you develop a management plan and stick to it for a period of years, like 25. The idea is to provide incentive for you to do just what you sound like you want to do anyway.
Glad you joined up, and will look forward to your pics.  Just size them by dimension first (450 pixels longest side) and then save them, as then they will likely fit the file size limits here.   Doing the file size reduction first doesn't work (and wish I knew just why so I could explain it  ).

[sgtmaconga]

Welcome to the form.

[ibseeker]

Welcome to the Forum, you've come to the right spot to sound out your ideas and get backfeed. You'll hear a lot about using the services of a Consulting Forester and it's the best advice you can get. If you do your homework, are patient and willing to meet with at least a couple of different Forester's, you should be able to get what you want. Of course, what you think you want now is likely to change after meeting with a professional and that's good. Keep us updated on your plans and progress.

Best of luck overseas and stay safe!

Chuck

[WDH]

Welcome Meat! 

The bad thing is that your trees are way too young for a Shelterwood cut.  They need to grow about 20 more years.  The good thing is that you found the Forum.  This is a great place.  We love pics, so learn how to post them.  We would love to see some pics of your land.  There will be a lot of good advice and counsel to be found here.

[Meat]

Thanks for all the feedback.  I do plan on talking with a couple of foresters, and I plan on going slow.  I will probably stay in the military for 9 or 10 more years, so I can really take my time and get it right.  I'm sure the changes will grow faster when I'm not watching every day.

NC Woodland Owners Assn. sounds like a very good lead.  Thanks.  NC does have one of the cost sharing/tax programs called the NC Stewardship Forest...it sounds like a good deal.

I figured the trees would be to young for a shelterwood cut.  That is more of a goal for down the road, but it seems like a good alternative to clear cutting while still removeing timber to provide some income.  A quick question on that...why don't more people use the prescribed burning.  It seems like it brings alot to woods, removing the undergrowth, reducing competition, and adding material back to the soil.  It seems like it it a ver natural thing that used to happen a lot.  Is it a liability thing?

Let me try to upload a picture again.  It is an aeriel pic, so not really any detail.  I will take a few more when back in NC.  Thanks again.

Strike two on the pic...gotta run, but try again later.

[Don K]

Welcome to the forum. This is a fine place full of good people. You will enjoy it here.

Don

[Riles]

Start with the state foresters first. They'll take all your inputs and write your management plan for you at no charge. I suspect the land is already getting preferential tax treatment, but if not, you'll need their management plan to get the present use tax break. The plan is also required to get state subsidies in the Stewardship program.

To get the subsidy, you have to plant their recommendations. If you want a flowering dogwood plantation, they're not going to pay. They'll most likely suggest something commercial (pines). It's a turn-key operation. Once you reach agreement and sign the paperwork, they do it all. They supply the trees, find the planting contractor, supervise the planting, and do the mortality check the next year. They can also manage prescribed burns in the later years. When I planted 3 years ago, it cost me $65 an acre out of pocket.

Get the consulting forester after you have the plan. You can always modify the original plan, but you don't want to start cutting without knowing the big picture. He'll manage the thinning you've got coming up, the state doesn't do timber harvests.

If you like quail, you'll need to burn a lot. Burning is expensive and difficult because of the liability and heavy equipment needed to plow fire lanes and roads. Some fire managers will tell you there are only two or three "best" days every year to burn. But if you burn regularly, it's safe and very effective.

[WDH]

Like Riles said, there are a number of issues with burning.  It scares people, so you have to inform the neighbors.  The smoke is a big problem too.  When I burned this last January, I went to all the surrounding neighbors to inform them that I was going to do a control burn, and not to be alarmed when they saw the smoke.  At one place, a little old lady came out attached to an oxygen bottle.  I did not see the bottle before I launched into my burning speech.  She looked up at me and asked, "Am I going to be able to breathe?". 

So, people are the biggest problem with burning in my opinion.  You can burn, but you have to have your act together and do it when the atmospheric conditions and the wind is just right.

[Phorester]

I echo everything already said.  Two points I want to elaborate on; don't rule out clearcuts.  They're one of the best habitats for wildlife, and you may need to do some somday to regenerate your hardwood forests.  

Prescribed burning is indeed an excellent practice.  I think it's the most underutilized land management tool we have.  It's good for agriculture, wildlife, and forestry.   I've done hundreds of site pereparation burns; burning clearcuts getting ready to replant them.  Done a few dozen understory burns. For an understory burn you need more exacting weather and fuel conditions than for a site prep burn to get your desired result.  You might also get by without heavy equipment if your woods road system and other natural firebreaks can be used.  

In VA we contract these burns with landowners.  I don't know about NC, you'll have to check.  I'd suggest contracting out the first one at least and be there to help and observe the process.  After that, try a small one yourself, like a 1/4 acre or so.  String a few of those together and you wind up burning a large acreage in small manageable increments.

May the forest be with you in all your endeavors.

[Ron Scott]

It appears that you are on the right track and will be working with a professional forester on your land and resource management planning. Be as specific as you can on your objectives so that the forester can advise you in the proper activities to meet them in an efficient and timely manner.

i.e. when you have an objective to improve willife management or timber management, "spell out what species of game and nongame wildlife and timber species that you want your land improved for".

[tonich]

Welcome to the forum, Meat!

Just like you, I am here to learn.
I can ensure you it is well worth every minute spent here.
Good luck managing your woodlot! 

[Meat]

Thanks again for all the great info.  I really have enjoyed reading and learning.

In regards to the burning, I did not really think about the cost of putting in roads or fire breaks.  I'm sure that would get pricey.  I had a surveyor that did the tract next to mine give me a rough quote to mark my lines ( he has already marked two of my corner post) and he said it would be about $5,000.00.   If that is marking the line, I would hate to know what cutting a fire break would cost.  As of now I have no interior roads, just the road frontage.

Riles,  I read one of your other post...did you go to State?  Go Pack.  I started off in Foresty there back in the day, but they kept wanting me to memorize the Latin names of a bunch of trees.  Wasn't in the cards at the time.  I still have 9 or 10 years in the military, and I gotta figure out what I'm going to do when I grow up.

I look forward to working on the conservation plan.  I have plenty of deer, but would like to get he quail to make a comeback...sounds like some burning may be in my future.  We have always raised English Setters, so it would be good to have some wild birds around.

I got the picture loaded into the forum's album labeled as Southside.  My tract is 1, and I have 1/2 of 2.  Let me see if I can make it appear with the post.  Thanks again.
 

[Riles]

Meat, it's never too late to have a happy childhood. I'm a Clemson grad, but in engineering. I spent my 20 years in the AF and then took my GI Bill to get the forestry degree at Louisiana Tech. Just moved back to the Tarheel state this past summer. Still don't know what I want to be, but I'm enjoying my childhood, again.

[Tom]

I almost went to Clemson.  Then I woke up. 

Meat,
5 grand is a lot of money unless he's cutting a lot of understory.  Some of these surveyors will do nothing but mark corners and call it a survey. Make sure that you are getting a line marked that you can follow with a fence or some other marker.  My Neighbor did a smart thing and had irons driven every 100 feet so that he could find them again years from now if need be.  You can buy big spikes and insert them along and along as he surveys if you are there.    Lacking anything better, 1/2 or 3/4 inch white PVC pipe makes a visible trail too.  It just isn't as durable as an iron.

[Don K]

We use t-steel fence post and paint the tops with a bright color. Works good and lasts a long time.

[Phorester]

For a rough gesstimation, the VDOF could probably burn 100 acres for $5000, including fire line construction around it.  So be sure to check costs on anything before deciding yea or nea.   It's cheaper to get us to put in firelines in VA, because we don't charge near as much as a private contractor.  We have smaller dozers (cheaper per hour) and know how to build a line fast.  Most contractors overdo fireline construction.  They are used to clearing land for building or constructing roads to high standards, so they bring in a D-8 or another big dozer and want to build a 20 foot wide road smooth enough to drive a car on around the burn area. That's way more than needed for burning.

Don't mean to be telling you something you already know, but we're already discussing tactics here, before any strategy has been brought forth.  In other words,  first you need to decide what you want from your woods; only then choose the management practices to get you from where your woods are now to where you want them in 5 years, 10 years, 100 years. There's also government costshare programs on many of these practices, so you can stretch your available money farther.

And of course, Virginia Tech is the only forestry school that matters.......

[J.Hercules]

Welcome Meat from a NC State grad.  After yesterday it is good to see basketball season underway!  Like Phorester mentioned the forestry commission has smaller tractors with special fire plows that can quickly plow breaks around areas to be burned and they usually charge a per hour equipment fee that tends to be less than a contractor.  Is your property near one of the military bases? I grew up next to Camp Lejune and my dad managed a lot of land that the military now owns.  He was always saddened that after 25 years of work the land was sold to the government. When you get home get to know your county ranger & forester well because they are usually great guys and willing to help interested landowners. 

[Meat]

Great info about the state and a burn...I didn't know they did that.  I do understand that the management plan needs to come first...then look at the steps to get to the goals.  I'm looking forward to meeting the county forester...he sent me back an email prior to the holidays, and I just need to get back up with him after everyone gets back to work. 

I also sent an email to the Stewardship wildlife biologist...she seemed very interested and wants to come out at the same time as the forester.  Lots of deer on the property, and I also want to manage for quail.  I know it is not much land in that respect, but it would be nice to get about three or four coveys going.  I've grown up quail hunting and we have always raised English Setters - dad has 7 now.  If the rabbits pick up that would also be neat, but we don't have any beagles.

Riles - you do a little yanking and banking in your 20?

Wolfpack - tough last two games, but they are heading in the right direction w/ the new coach.  I think basketball will be good once the chemistry gels a little. 

Again, I can't say thank enough.  I will tack on a picture of the north side of the road.  I know they are not very good at the size they are, but when I get home in Jan I will take some on the ground and load them up....put all the experts to work

In the pic I have tract 1 and 1/2 of tract 2.  I want to plant trees down the west side of the property line, all the way back...maybe a few on the road, and the creek going across too.  We will see what the forester says.

 

[WDH]

And of course, Virginia Tech is the only forestry school that matters.......

Dream on, brother .