Blended ton?

[Brian Beauchamp]

First time that I have dealt with this individual logger, so I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but getting an offer like that just seems like a way to get the sawtimber/chip-n-saw cheaply and not even mess with the pulpwood. Not that I'm going to accept a bid offer like that...requested a re-bid by product class, but I was wondering how often any of you see that sort of thing. 

[WDH]

I recently sold a good bit of timber in Texas by the ton pay-as-cut.  I would have liked to have had a blended rate, but there is no way of knowing what will be taken out in a thinning, and it could lead to the issue you raised.  I steered clear of it.  On a clearcut where you had a good cruise and where you wanted to retain an economic interest in the harvest, it is workable I think.

[Brian Beauchamp]

I agree. This isn't going to be a clearcut though...it's a mix of loblolly, shortleaf & hardwoods where we're wanting to remove the loblolly to release the native trees...the lob is 2nd growth from an old plantation as near as I can tell. I don't want to have to require that they remove everything, but I do not want them picking the best out and leaving the pulp trees because they're priced too high either. Wasn't the best offer anyway, but just curious as to your all's thoughts on it. Thanks, WDH.

[ely]

i am not real sure what type loggers you have or are accustomed to in your locale. but down here in the southeast you can make whatever deal you want and put whatever words you want on paper.
but when the loggers go into the woods they cut and drag everything that will make them a profit. what they do not cut and haul out they skid trees over the rest.
i have noticed they have started leaving a buffer zone along the creeks and drainages............sort of.

not bashing the loggers, i am just saying that here, if you find one that will do you a square deal and not try and slide a couple loads by you it is a rare thing.

[Tom]

They get caught stealing loads around here and they won't make it out of the woods one day.
Tom... in the Southeast.

[ely]

my bad tom, i was referring to se oklahoma. and the same is true here as well, yet it still happens.   when i was hauling pulpwood years ago, i would go in after the slash and burn guys left and do a clean up on certain pieces of property. several times the owners would come by and talk......... and several times the owners told me that i made more money on the cleanup than they did selling their timber. thats how i discovered who is honest and who is not.

back then i had all the hard work i could stand after doing one great job for a friend on his property. word of mouth killed me. the reason i would make more money than most is the landowners told me to cut the trees that the others left. most times they were walnut trees that were too close to the fences or barns and the real loggers were afraid to cut them.

[Brian Beauchamp]

Thanks for the insight, ely. There are a few interested that I do know and 'trust', but this is my first sale venture down in your part of the state. What part of forestry are you in down there now?

[thecfarm]

Best way to find out if the logger is a good one,check out some of his jobs and maybe talk to the land owner.I had some of my land cut.I watched this guy for 20 years.I walked some of his jobs and was always impressed. We have some of those bad loggers around here.They seem to stay in business.It's too bad.Beware of the logger that can be at your place in 2 months.I had to wait about 8 months for my land to be cut by this guy.

[Brian Beauchamp]

If he was submitting a competitive bid, I'd definitely ask for references. My experience has been that most loggers are honest...just a few out there that'll take you if you let them. Just like any other business really.

[ely]

brian, i am not in the forestry business per say, i only know the business well because i used to be a logger of sorts many years ago. plus all my friends own log trucks and many friends are loggers both good ones and bad.

i just work at my job and own my own sawmill.

on a related note, there is some property near my home that was recently logged, and i mean clear cut. it was logged by a man/company that i am familiar with from the past. a good guy and business man.  but the thing is i understand that the 80 acres that was logged is leased by a third party and they are the ones that sold the timber off the property. the owner of this property just seen the damage last weekend for the first time.

said all he knew about the deal was that the person that leased the land was supposed to fence the property in the lease agreement. he is old and he lives out of state. i hate it for him.

[Brian Beauchamp]

I'm sure he is a good guy, but it is really easy to go to the county assessor to verify ownership and check with him before purchasing the timber...They may have just slipped something by the older gentleman in the lease agreement, but I still wouldn't have bought it if the landowner was against it. Sounds like the logger got taken just as much as him though. Hope they can get it resolved without getting sued. 

[WDH]

Timber is "real property", and the owner listed on the deed has to sign the timber contract.  The logger/buyer should have known this. 

Unless the lease agreement specifies that the leasee has rights to the timber, then the owner should have no trouble claiming rightful ownership.