Peterson 10" WPF - vertical sizing

[JimBuis]

Peterson owners and specifically WPF owners.

I have the 10" WPF with electric winch. Let us say that I am working on technique.  I cannot figure out what I am doing wrong in reading the vertical sizing gauge. I have started using a ruler to measure the movement of the carriage relative to the endstands as I am always WAY off if I use the vertical gauge on the mill.

If you really know what I am talking about, I'd appreciate knowledgeable input.

Thanks,
Jim

[Fla._Deadheader]

 Well Jim, I'm stoopid. Sooo, I measured each increment in 1" measures, and re-marked the dial with Permanent Marker. Works for me 

[Jeff]

I have input put its not knowlegable so I guess I'll exclude myself.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Jim,

When you are using the manual winch, the reset which is done on the
moveable indicator acccomodates the kerf of the blade.

I am guessing that, when using the electric winch,  you have to add the
kerf to the movement yourself.  That would mean that a drop intended to
yeild a 1" board must actually drop an extra 9/32 of an inch.   At each drop,
whatever the intended thickness, would always have to add this very odd
amount, but, hey, it beats running out and manually winching, huh?

Good practice on your complex fractions, too!
0, then drop...
1-9/32; (a fat quarter)
2-9/16;
3-27/32; (a fat 7/8ths)
5-1/8";
6-13/32; (a fat 3/8ths)
You could always drop 5/4 and have a slightly shy board, or drop 1-3/8 and have a slightly fat board.  Either
would make the math simpler.   Or you could make flash cards and have your wench drill you on your winching calculations.
 

Gosh, no wonder you're havin' trouble!    Do you think this is the deal?

[LOGDOG]

Jim,

   On my ASM I had the electric winch for up/down sizing. I would think it would be similar if not the same on your WPF. Do you have chains on your cutting head that roll over the sprockets as the winch raises or lowers the head? If so, there are a couple of things to keep in mind. One, make sure that the bolt and nut combo that runs through the center of the dial indicator are not too tight. There's kind of a sweet spot when it's right. Second, if yours is like mine was - the armature that the indicator is on will have a sprocket on the back of it which lays against the chains running up and down. Similar to an idler. Only as the sprocket connected to the indicator turns against/rolls against the chain - it also rolls the indicator. (There's just a nut to loosen and re-tighten to adjust the sprocket so that it lays into the chain more or less.) Third, Make sure you're reading off the correct edge of the pointer tab that is used on the indicator. My indicator had a red kerf mark which I would set to the front edge of my pointer. Then if I was cutting 1" I'd roll through the red (kerf mark) and on to the 1" mark.

    I'm sure Captain can get you square. Haven't seen him or the Petersons around here for a while. I'm beginning to get worried about 'em. Anyone else heard from them?

LOGDOG

[scsmith42]

Landon, Craig and I were e-mailing just the other day.  He's doing well - almost finished with school - for all intents and purposes he will wrap up Dec 1.    He'll have his exams in January and then can start breathing easier again.

Jim - ditto Landon's comments.  On my indicator, sometimes it will skip a tooth on the chain when the carriage moves up or down - I usually reach out and put a slight pressure on the chain to be sure that it doesn't jump out.

Is your problem inconsistency, or just that the measurement is off?

Scott

[JimBuis]

The gauge is not slipping in the chain. I was told that could happen if the chain was a bit too loose, so I was watching for that. The problem is consistent in that I never get accurate results if I only use the gauge.

For example, the other day I wanted to cut some 1" lumber. I had taken the top off of the log already, so I had a very clean open face as a reference point. I very carefully set the gauge to zero and meticulously lowered the winch to 1". I made my first horizontal cut. Before making any vertical cuts, I shut down the mill and measured the thickness of what I was about to take off with a rule. Rather than 1" it was more like 1 3/4". I know the gauge makes allowances for kerf. I am using a standard factory blade. I haven't done anything funny there.

I am certain this is purely an operational thing on my part. There is not a problem with the mill.

It sure is frustrating to me that I have spent a good deal of money and due to my own ignorance have to resort to kneeling in the sawdust to measure with a rule what I should be able to do with the factory equipment.

Are any of you WPF owners in the St. Louis area? I'd bet this is one of those things a knowledgeable owner could explain and/or demonstrate for me in about 5 minutes.

Thanks, but I sure hate feeling retarded,
Jim

[Tom]

Jim,
I know you wanted an answer from someone with knowledge, but I still have an idea. Based on my old woodmizer, dropping an inch wasn't accurate either.  The reason was in the slack in the chains, motors and belts.  To really get on the money when dropping the head, I had to drop it and then tighten the slack by raising the head onto the mark.  Maybe this could be a part of the problem.   Paralax is also something that plagued me.  I was too short to read all of the marks perfectly horizontal. That made the needle/line not line up with the measuring tape.

The Peterson has a needle, right.  Perhaps it is too far off of the numbers and is allowing paralax to effect you.

That's all I can offer.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

I is now mistifyd.

Curious to know what you discover, because I would like to add the electric winch.

[Firebass]

This most likely isn't the problem but I'll toss it in anyway. 

I remember once reading that at a shoot out a Peterson Mill showed up accidentally with the metric decal on the face. 

Firebass

[solodan]

 
To really get on the money when dropping the head, I had to drop it and then tighten the slack by raising the head onto the mark.

 

This is how I do it on my Lucas, and if I'm not mistaken this method is also seen in the Peterson video.

[Ga_Boy]

Jim,

Contact Peterson about this.  A year or so ago they had a bad run of sprockets.  You may have one of the bad sprokets on your dial indicator.

If so, it is a simple fix.  I bet Peterson would be willing to replace the sprocket if it is the wrong one.





Mark

[brdmkr]

Not the same machine as yours, but I do what Tom and Solodan  said using my Lucas.  If I don't, I can get what you are talking about pretty easily.

Don't get discouraged. 

[Captain]

Jim, the sprocket has the wrong number of teeth.  It needs to have 11 and you probably have 13 or 14.  Contact Peterson directly and they will send you the correct sprocket.

Thanks for the concern guys, I'm surviving just fine.  Looking forward to the end of Paramedic School and getting back to life as usual.

Captain

[JimBuis]

I'm going to be milling this morning, so I'll count the teeth and let ya'all know what I find.

Thanks,
Jim

[scsmith42]

Jim, presuming that the sprocket is wrong, until you get a replacement in the interim you can probably just remark your indicator with some strips of tape or something based upon actual measurements.

Scott

[hansbaba]

Jim,
 I had a few problems here as well so I'll give you my two cents. Captain is likely right. If Your careful and your 3/4" off then the sproket sounds wrong.
If I am careful on my 8" wpf(electric winch) I can get every drop within a 1/6th".
Be sure the little aluminium tab on the dial is bent so that its edge is aligned with the indentations on the dial (Peterson can explain this better than I)
If I have finished a cut, reduce engine speed to idle, and then lower the mill while checking the vert sizing, then increase speed without rechecking the vert. dial, I find I will have discrepancies up to a fat 1/8". I guess the sizing doesnt "set" until the mill is up to speed. This caused me a lot of frustration until I started watching the sizing wheel while changing height and changing engine speed simultaneously.
It sounds like your making sure the chains arent slipping as well.
Most of my material is framing material that doesnt get planed or recut so it needs to be as accurate as possible. I have come to accept that for me, every board has to be manually measured. I just keep a small tape measure in my belt and check each cut as I start. I ease the blade in and then push it out, and do a quick check with the tape. It takes me about 5 extra seconds per board but then I know every board is a perfect one.
Hope some of this helps and doesnt just waste your time.
Ohh yeah, the best thing is just to call petersons, they are quite used to my snivelling.

hans.

[beenthere]

Yes, call.......Wife hasn't been on since Jim made her cry...

[JimBuis]

Jim, the sprocket has the wrong number of teeth.  It needs to have 11 and you probably have 13 or 14.  Contact Peterson directly and they will send you the correct sprocket.   Captain 

Okay, I have confirmed it. My sprocket has 13 teeth. I need to look in my stuff, but I think there may be another sprocket here already. I was wondering why I'd have an extra. Somebody must have realized there was a sprocket problem, so they already got it, but nobody put it on yet.

I will put that sprocket on ASAP. It sure is a pain having to walk back and forth to doublecheck measurements. I wouldn't mind being off by 1/16", but being off by 3/4" is too much.

Thanks to everyone for your words of wisdom.

By the way, I had a wonderful time today. We cut some nice cherry boards, 1" by 10".  After seeing some of the garbage the box stores are selling, it was a pleasure picking up those nice wide boards today and knowing that these logs would have been burned as firewood or left to rot if not for me and a Peterson portable sawmill.

Jim

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Glad you solved that, Jim.
Maybe FlaD. has an incorrect sprocket, also.

I noticed that the older WPFs (such as mine) have a different dial set-up, too.   For a while I had two of them - one older and one newer.   The dials worked very differently, but they had the right number of teeth.