How much ?¿

[Phorester]

Some more philosophy here.....
Forestry encompases decades if not centuries due to the long life of trees.  Snce we don't know what tree species will really be valuable in 50 years, 100 years, etc....., my basic rule of forest management is to manage for the right tree on the specific site. The "right" tree is based primarily on soil type.  What type of tree will grow there the best over the long lifespan of trees?

I think we've got it a lot easier in North America than you in South America in terms of knowledge of trees, soils, ecology, etc. Fewer species, and all this has been studied for over 100 years now.

But my bottom line question whenever I walk into different areas of a forested landholding is..., "what tree or trees will grow here the best?"  I feel that forestry is driven by the soil type you've got to work with.

If the answer is " all 100+ tree species grow well everywhere", then you've got your work cut out for you.  But if you can narrow it down to fewer species growing on different soils in different locations, maybe that would be the direction to take your management endeavors.

[jim king]

Phorester:  We have about 100 species of harvestable size trees on each 90 acre parcel but we dont have an idea as to how many species in different soil types in the different areas.  Some species grow only in the acidic soils of creeks and some only grow in sweet soils near the main rivers. It is assumed that we have over 4000 species in the Amazon.

Ron:  It is against the law to cut Mahogany or Spanish Cedar now.  Such things as non commercial thinning would be against the law here.  As we carry out the wood on the backs of people due to the terrain so it is not reosanable to carry 4.5 foot cants for anything but the hobby type woods we produce.

About the only thing there seems to be a consensus of opinion on is that very few trees are over 50 years old.  I am very interested in which species will replace the one that was removed and we should have a good idea of that in 5 years or so as most species here will grow in an opening with light about 6 to 8 feet per year until they mature and then they stand until disease or a breeze knocks them over.

This is all very interesting and absolutly contrary to the forestry law and general thinking here.

[Geoff Kegerreis]

Jim,

Here are some references to help you out in getting up to speed on tropical forest management:

http://www.yale.edu/tri/
http://www.ctfs.si.edu/doc/index.php
http://www.fs.fed.us/global/iitf/prodserv1.html
http://www.tropicalforestry.net/
http://www.istf-bethesda.org/
http://www.esf.edu/costarica/
http://natureinperu.blogspot.com/2007/05/where-is-worlds-greatest-biodiversity.html

Some other guys who might know a few things about the environment in the big woods:

http://www.jungletraining.com/

As far as species and wood characteristics, nobody I know knows as much as the Constantine family - they may not know much about forest management, but they'll know people who do - but the main thing is they'll know the species of wood if anyone will:

http://www.constantines.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=4

You may not have the luxury of the formal education or experience in Ecology-based forest management that some of us have, but that doesn't mean you can't educate yourself about the forest.  The more you know, the further your ability to make appropriate decisions that will increase the resource in a number of ways.  I can tell just by the way you're writing that you're smart enough to have an idea of the potential of this.  It is possible that you may be missing an opportunity via working with some researchers on-site.  Partnerships like this may be historic and could increase your earnings while increasing the knowledge base of the way tropical forest systems work - but that's nothing compared to where this can lead you & your company.

The U.S. gov. money machine is significant.  Non-gov. orgs and other researchers know this.  Private forestry in the U.S. (via the farm bill) had $100M set aside over the course of the last 5 years for subsides that I call "forestry welfare", which essentially is what it is.  It may be increased over the next term of the renewal of the bill.  Much of this money goes to gov't agencies and very wealthy individuals that don't need it and shouldn't have it.

So, I'm not new to the political stupidity machine...You're preaching to the choir here. 

Take a look at my links: There is money available for tropical forest research as well.  All you need to do is get a hold of a researcher and name your price in the grant proposal.  Think about it.  As a U.S. taxpayer, I'd rather see that money go toward someone who can use it to truly benefit humanity vs. just go to some fat rich landowner or bureaucrat's project to increase ways to spend it to ensure funding the next fiscal year.  I guarantee one way or the other it will find a home.  Might as well find a worthy home for it!

ISTF has been around since 1957.  I know one forester in Alabama who has worked in Brazil ( & possibly Paraguay) and may be a member of ISTF.  We talked over the phone regarding Forestry in South America either a year or two years ago while discussing another matter.  He claims that there are now forestry schools in the region that are up to speed.  I cannot confirm that, because I am not fluent in Portuguese (our conversation focused on Brazil).  If you want that forester's name and contact info, shoot me a private message.  I also have a network of many foresters who have experience in the region - and I know at least another who might be interested in gaining some. 

I would urge you to at least consider taking a look at the links I have posted there for you. 

As far as hauling away wood, if there are trees large enough with enough value, the use of a helicopter to move logs to a haul road could be cost efficient.  Helicopter logging isn't as common in the U.S. as other types, but sales are marketed in both the Western and Eastern U.S. that require the use of helicopters for log removal.  Not sure if you considered that option or not.  There is no requirement that the helicopter "touch down" in the forest, but it's hard to say what kind of a canopy you're working with.  FYI, I have been in jungles before - and as you are probably aware, they are not created equal.  Not sure if it is possible to get a lead through the canopy where you're working (usually there are some places), but if it is that may open up other possibilities for your company.  This may require another license or revision to the license, but again it's just an idea.

Regards & Best wishes,

GK

[jim king]

Geoff:
I have learned not to confuse web pages with reality concerning anything to do with tropical forestry.  We just had a group of foreign experts here who actually went into the jungle off and on for about a month looking for what here is called Palo Rosa because it has a scent of roses and is highly prized for the perfume industry.  The owner of the bar where they hung out called me and ask if I could help them find a Palo Rosa tree.  I asked some of my people and they said yes they all knew of different locations where the tree grows.  The result being I sent one of my people to the bar to take them to see a tree.  When they saw my guy it was obvious he was not a professor and he probably wasnt wearing shoes so they kindly sent him back home as they were sure he could not know what they were looking for.  To cut the story short they never did find a tree and I was told by the bar owner that when they got home they wrote a paper declaring the Palo Rosa as almost extinct.  It is used for firewood here.

In one form or another we supply info to most of the people on the sites you listed including the USDA.
We have several international study groups here on grants yearly but most spend a morning in the jungle and the rest of the stay on tourist alley and I honestly dont put much faith in them.  I can tell you for fact there is more information from people on web sites like this than all the study groups and WWF types put together.

I will post a page on our local survival guy , you will enjoy it. 

 http://www.iquitostimes.com/rfowler-index.htm

http://www.iquitostimes.com/

Jim

[jim king]

You asked once, "what is a definition of a forester"?  A true forester is working with the entire ecosystem.  Removing specific, economically valuable trees is just a small part of his concerns.

This is one of the most interesting comments to me as the mentality here is to concentrate on a few species and the eco system is really not part of the whole scheme to a forester.  This is why I ask the question some time ago as to what is the definition of a forester in the US.  We have a long way to go here.

[crtreedude]

Jim,

most of the time here the foresty here is only focused on a few species. (Costa Rica) - however there is some very good work being done in mixed plantations. We have plantings with 30 species - at least.

But the focus is usually mono-crops. This is too bad since often this does not work well. Monocrop up north can encourage disease - down here it is just about a guarantee.

[jim king]

crtreedude:
Same story here, plantations of Mahogany, Spanish Cedar and Oil Palm have all failed die to disease of one type or another.  Now the Govt. is trying to introduce Sacha Inchi in the slash and burn areas to create employment and it looks as if it will fail also due to disease.