Post and Rail ideas

[bman]

Need some ideas for attaching railings to 5x5 post for a stair well in my TF house. Am thinking a 5" rail with a dove tail cut in each end turned flat and set flush into a dove tail mortise in the top of the post? The iron rod baluster attachment between rail and floor would prevent rail from being lifted out of mortise. I am just trying to come up with something that will show off some joint work but not be to complicated to cut/assemble.
Other ideas?
 

[Jim_Rogers]

bman:
You can do that if you want, but be aware that the dove tail tenon is going to shrink from left to right and this will leave a gap between the tail(tenon) and the (dovetail shaped)mortise. This shrinkage will also allow the tenon tail to pull out of the post mortise. This is of course if this is done with "green" wood. If the wood is dry or somewhat dry it may not shrink----much but it will probably shrink some....

Jim Rogers

[bman]

Thanks Jim. All my pieces are bone dry and acclimated to the interior so no shrinkage issues there. I'm just not sure if that joint will withstand the rigors of people leaning against, pushing and pulling the rail etc. I'm sure a bolted connection is probably the strongest but has little aesthetic value to me.

[EastMark]

This topic leads me to a question some may have ideas on for me.
In my plan I have a loft railing and a catwalk with a open railing that all run together.
I dont want anything real labor intensive but do want a nice looking simple rustic style rail and ballasters of some type. Simple design is fine.
I plan on integrating 1 steel balcony panel each into the 3 sections with a wildlife scene on them to break it up.
Anyone have any picture oftheir railings ? I went to some log stair websites (which im not using) for ideas and saw a nice few styles in photos that looked nice but Im not sold yet. Thought maybe this creative bunch might have a thought or two.
Thanks  Mark

[logman]

I have pictures of the railings I made out of sassafras for our timber frame home.  If you send me a private message I'll email them too you.  That's easier for me to do rather than trying to figure out how to post them on here. 

[Thehardway]

bman,

I don' know what your local codes call for but some require railings that end in a newel post or return to a wall.   There is also some gobblety gook about the width and thickness in the way it can be grasped.  You might want to check on all this before you put to much thought or work into it.  The dovetail design may not work if they require termination at a newel post or return to wall.  (As I understand this is basically to provide something for someone to grab if they are falling as they enter/exit the stairs and is supposed to prevent people or children from sliding down the rail) There also may be code for distance/space between pickets/balusters.  I think it is  max of 4" here.  Supposed to prevent children from sliding through or getting their heads stuck in between.

Here is a design for balusters I saw done for an outside balcony on a local job. It looks real nice completed and is very simple.  If you use copper water pipe for balusters it can be left to age with natural patina and metal artwork can be done from sheetcopper and soldered to balusters.  This is a little pricey.  Using black steel gas pipe will allow you to use rolled steel for artwork weld it in and do it a little cheaper.

The basic idea is a through mortice and tenon pegged in place for the rail/post connection.  It is extremely strong done this way and you need not worry about shrinkage. I doubt that the through mortice would take any longer to cut than the dovetail joint.  Holes drilled in the bottom of the rail to receive the pipe are also very easy and time effective.

For continuous rail interrupted by posts the second figure shows a passthru half lap splice.
 
Nothing is more irritating to me than wobbly railings/posts.  The dovetail joint would do little to prevent post movement.  This joint provides a "continous" horizontal member to help brace the post.



Fig 1.



Hope this sparks some ideas or others thoughts and good luck.




Fig 2.

[Don P]

This probably isn't what Bman was looking for but might give somebody more ideas.
This is a bridge between bedrooms about 16' across the greatroom/entry. I wanted rigid posts, didn't want to do too much damage to the beams and got permission to sink lags. This is steel 3x3 square tube on a plate that is bolted down. A post sleeve made of 1/4" oak ply with solid oak "angle iron" corners. I slid the sleeve over and slid in long ripped wedge shaped shims with lots of subfloor glue.


Its all just built up planed and routed pieces, not high art, but seemed to fit.


(There is a place to put a code handrail, so this is technically the guardrail)

[EastMark]

Looks fantastic. They came out sweet. In my place we will have a similar walkway with handrails. Thats helpful to see.
I will do a more basic less finished look....maybe more what most would consider a camp quality/style. I have been starting to look for older commercial 48"/60"gas stoves/double ovens to recondition and things along those lines.Thats the feel we are trying to create.
I really like the stained glass,stonework, and lighting you used. 
If this timber house is half as much fun as seeing my first stick house come together it will be a blast. 
Mark

[bman]

Thanks all. This is a saftey rail so rail width is not an issue. I am attaching the posts with sure-tite anchors and the post being 5" dia and attached into a 6x9 beam I am hoping will add a lot of stiffness. I was thinking that with the post anchored tight to the floor and that the rail is also 5" wide and about 2" thick that if I cut that joint super tight it would make a tight connection. My balusters are 1/2" square tube into bored holes in the under side of the rail and into the deck floor. Plan on drilling 1/2" holes and then using a piece of scrap baluster tube,  inside edges sharpened on one end, punching the corners out with tub and hammer. Balusters will be painted something like flat black or maybe a dark oil rubbed bronze to match the accents in the house. 

[Thehardway]

Nice work Don.  Looks great.