Author Topic: What going on with this wood? (Read 1994 times)

MikeH · « **on:** August 24, 2007, 08:35:14 pm »

I cut some Q.S. White Oak and find this white stripe like sapwood several inches inside the outer sapwood. Is that possible?

limbrat · « **Reply #1 on:** August 24, 2007, 08:49:03 pm »

Thats neat it looks like a scar. Does the grain near the heart have more of a bow than the grain at the true sap wood? Do you think something could have fallen against it and scared it up when it was a saplin and the wound healed over?

MikeH · « **Reply #2 on:** August 24, 2007, 10:00:01 pm »

I think it was around most if not all of the tree if I remeber, but it does seem to dissapear about 6 to 8 feet up boards.

limbrat · « **Reply #3 on:** August 24, 2007, 10:24:47 pm »

Frost bite

WDH · « **Reply #4 on:** August 24, 2007, 10:38:19 pm »

I bet a stain will blend it all together so that it is not an issue.

Wow, what some nice quarter-sawn white oak

.

beenthere · « **Reply #5 on:** August 24, 2007, 10:52:20 pm »

How does it look on the end grain?
From what I see, it appears to be an injury or stress to the tree.....possibly some backfill over the root system, as white oak isn't very tolerant of that.
Do you know any history of the tree during that growth period?

Lanier_Lurker · « **Reply #6 on:** August 24, 2007, 11:10:36 pm »

Quote from: WDH on August 24, 2007, 10:38:19 pm

I bet a stain will blend it all together so that it is not an issue.

Wow, what some nice quarter-sawn white oak .

I have no ideas on the streak, but that is some fine looking wood. I'm not very knowledgeable about milling, but 12" quarter-sawn boards would come from a pretty good sized tree, right? Perhaps over 30"?

I have an antique cabinet made from what I believe to be quarter-sawn white oak. Your wood looks better that the wood my cabinet was made with.

MikeH · « **Reply #7 on:** August 24, 2007, 11:38:23 pm »

The tree was well over 30" and came from an old farm that was being removed for a freeway(312 Chanhassen, Mn.) I think it was a burr oak, I did not see the leaves.

WDH · « **Reply #8 on:** August 24, 2007, 11:54:20 pm »

MikeH,

I have to repeat myself on this one...............that wood is beyond awesome

.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #9 on:** August 25, 2007, 06:00:09 am »

I suspect an old logging scar that compartmentalized quick. My father scuffed a white oak with the lawn mower and I can't even see evidence of the scar, not even a blemish.

Looks like some really nice lumber. You folks have many bur oak down there. It's quite rare here, they don't even show it on the map, but it's mostly around Grand Lake, but I have found some 30 miles from here on really old and abandoned farms that have been clear cut twice.

Dodgy Loner · « **Reply #10 on:** August 27, 2007, 04:55:40 pm »

Mike, what you have there is known as false sapwood or "moon ring". It is basically an area of heartwood where the extractives that normally darken the wood were not produced, leaving an area of heartwood that is almost identical to the sapwood. However, unlike the true sapwood, the moon ring is composed of dead tissue. It is thought to be caused by an event of severe stress that interrupts the formation of heartwood, such as heavy frost. I found a scientific article about it if you'd like to get down to the nitty gritty.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #11 on:** August 27, 2007, 05:06:26 pm »

Most interesting, never seen nor heard about it before. Thanks for the information Dodgy.

Not too hard to remember a name like that.

WDH · « **Reply #12 on:** August 27, 2007, 06:12:14 pm »

That is the first that I have heard of moon ring. Hopefully, it is not common. I have never encountered it

.

isawlogs · « **Reply #13 on:** August 27, 2007, 07:47:35 pm »

I have seen that before in red oak .... nevr gave it much thought at the time

Now that you bring that up it sure came back to me

I have been reading this part of the forum now going on three days ( Tree and Plant I.D. ) I sure learn't me a lot of new things .

I need to get my camera fixed or get me a new one $:-\$

WDH ... We never did finish our little talk , over the difference between them oaks over at Jeff's house .... Guess you and I need to plan for a next year visite and get that done

Mike_Barcaskey · « **Reply #14 on:** August 27, 2007, 10:17:03 pm »

Quote from: Dodgy Loner on August 27, 2007, 04:55:40 pm

It is basically an area of heartwood where the extractives that normally darken the wood were not produced, leaving an area of heartwood that is almost identical to the sapwood. However, unlike the true sapwood, the moon ring is composed of dead tissue.

Dodgy, are you saying heartwood is dead tissue?

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #15 on:** August 28, 2007, 03:19:34 am »

Yeah heart is the xylem of the tree and is dead tissue. There is no cell division there, just conducts water and soil nutrients up the tree to the food factory. The extractives are found in the cell walls and lumens.

tonich · « **Reply #16 on:** August 28, 2007, 08:35:39 am »

Quote from: WDH on August 27, 2007, 06:12:14 pm

That is the first that I have heard of moon ring. Hopefully, it is not common. I have never encountered it .

Same here,
I’ve never seen this onto local oaks, despite we have at least six important spread oak species. Some of them are frost-tender and frost-ribs are not so unusual, especially with Quercus Cerris. I guess, false sapwood is under the bark of the frost injury.
At the same time, false (black) heart is very common on the Common Beech in some provenances here. It is a colored sapwood, reminding of wood’s heart.

Dodgy Loner · « **Reply #17 on:** August 28, 2007, 12:17:48 pm »

Quote from: WDH on August 27, 2007, 06:12:14 pm

That is the first that I have heard of moon ring. Hopefully, it is not common. I have never encountered it .

I've seen it in lumber, but not from around here. I suspect that it's more common in frost-prone areas. I don't think middle Georgia falls under that category

.

Texas Ranger · « **Reply #18 on:** August 28, 2007, 03:04:00 pm »

Lots of things middle Georgia is prone to, but wouldn't think frost was one of them, less it be on a cold one fresh from the bucket.

(Had to get food, or drink as it is, into the conversation. It's tradition!)

Mike_Barcaskey · « **Reply #19 on:** August 28, 2007, 03:43:17 pm »

ok, let's giddy-up

heartwood is not "dead".
while it does not support cell division and is usually "dormant" (for the lack of a better word), providing mechanical support, maintaining the energy-dynamic mass ratio and conducting water and nutrients, it does react to outside stimuli.
When heartwood is injured or is beset upon by a pathegon, it chemically changes and reacts to the condition by setting boundaries (compartmentalization).

the problem is with the way we look at a tree, with our mindset and previous knowledge that is not applicable to trees (case in point, people still say a trees heals. no it doesn't, it seals. a tree can not replace injured or missing tissue in the same spatial place) we look at the tree as if it's biology, the way it lives, is the same as or similar to ours.

as Alex Shigo said in A New Tree Biology, "There is much more to the story. When heartwood is wounded it reacts to set boundaries. How can a "dead" tissue do this? It may be a dead tissue according to animal standards, but it still compartmentalizes pathogens."

It is my argument that reaction to outside stimuli is proof of life
as science advances and we learn more of tree biology we will see there are no "dead" parts to a tree

your thoughts?

News:

Author Topic: What going on with this wood? (Read 1994 times)