Author Topic: LL's "walk in the woods" (Read 2875 times)

Lanier_Lurker · « **on:** August 20, 2007, 10:00:34 pm »

On Saturday I hiked the first 5 miles or so of the Appalachian Trail - from Springer Mountain to Noontootla Creek.

I have a bunch of pictures, but I have been too busy and I am too tired tonight to put forth the effort to size them appropriately for posting here.

But, I wanted to go ahead and offer up some commentary.

The following are what really caught my attention.

1) The drought: The stress on several of the tree species was very evident. Usually this part of Georgia gets decent rainfall even in drought years. The severity of our current drought is shocking.

2) I was surprised at the relative abundance of hickory in this area, both mockernut and pignut. Even at the summit of Springer Mountain at 3782ft there were hickories galore.

3) I was *amazed* at the abundance of sassafras in this area, although I saw very few mature trees

4) I was surprised at the absence of sweetgum, the weed of Southeastern trees.

5) I was surprised at the relative scarcity of northern red oak. They seemed to be outnumbered by hickories.

6) I was surprised at the relative abundance of white oak, especially compared to northern red oak.

As we neared Noontootla Creek we began to encounter some mostly pure stands of eastern hemlock. I saw some big trees, but nothing larger than 4 feet in diameter. I also saw the biggest eastern white pine I have ever seen.

Lastly, I saw an amazing number of a certain tree of special significance. I will be posting those pictures first (when I can get them conditioned).

Sadly, I could not really explore and take pictures very far off the trail since the people I was with were more interested in maintaining a 25-30 minutes/mile pace than looking at trees. Fortunately, there was an older guy in the group that fell behind so I only had to keep up with him. So, my lollygagging had a dual purpose as I could keep an eye on him. All in all it was a fun day.

More to come....

WDH · « **Reply #1 on:** August 20, 2007, 10:22:50 pm »

I suspect the shade tolerance of the hickories accounts for their abundance, especially in relation to northern red oak since it (NRO) was (I am sure) preferentially logged when those areas were clearcut the last time.

So, you are going to string us out till tomorrow on the pics

.

Dodgy Loner · « **Reply #2 on:** August 21, 2007, 06:07:29 pm »

I'm always the straggler on hikes through the mountains, because every 100 yards something causes me to stop and proclaim, "Cool, look at this!" Of course, after the first 10 or 12 times everybody just rolls their eyes and keeps walking

.

metalspinner · « **Reply #3 on:** August 21, 2007, 09:33:23 pm »

I've noticed in group hikes that most people walk with their heads down watching their feet. Every once in a while, they will stop to catch their breath then look around.

I've learned to trust my feet without looking at them.

Get to take in lot's more then.

Tom · « **Reply #4 on:** August 21, 2007, 09:38:59 pm »

The old Forester here that I admired used to tell me "Most folks look down when they walk in the woods, most of the information is up". Of course he was talking about the trees and their health, but there is a world of knowledge to be gained by looking up at tree trunks, understory and canopy. The forest Floor has neat stuff too, but a lot of times the canopy will point you to it.

I think that one must keep his ears open too. There is a specific buzzing sound that should be an indication to take further notice of the forest floor.

OneWithWood · « **Reply #5 on:** August 22, 2007, 08:54:26 am »

By design our necks swivel side to side and up and down. I believe the purpose of this design is specifically for woods walking. Make the most of it by looking up, down, left, right, repeat. Keep the motion slow enough you don't get dizzy and waltz into the briars

WDH · « **Reply #6 on:** August 22, 2007, 09:29:00 pm »

LL,

I guess that I am just going to have to go up there and walk that trail myself since there are not any pics

.

Furby · « **Reply #7 on:** August 22, 2007, 09:32:11 pm »

Can I come with

Wanna extend the walk by oh, just a "few" miles

WDH · « **Reply #8 on:** August 22, 2007, 10:23:15 pm »

Hey Furb, there was a time a good while back when I was seriously considering that hike plus the full extension that you reference. Hey, I still might do it if I stay diligent on the "Weight Control" thread and get into better walking shape

.

Now that would be an experience. Have you done it? (Just think of all the extra weight that the tree books would add $:-\$ ).

Furby · « **Reply #9 on:** August 22, 2007, 10:37:20 pm »

Think of it this way, you will lose the weight doing the hike!

Kill two birds with one stone!

Nope never done it, but it's secong on my list after floating the Yukon.

Both trips are about the same distance and take about the same time.
I need three summers free (with bills paid ahead) to do my current short, short list.

What tree books............ that's why I want to go with you and Dodgy!

Lanier_Lurker · « **Reply #10 on:** August 22, 2007, 10:41:42 pm »

I was amazed at the number and size of these trees that I saw. I did not expect to see this tree on this trip, that is for sure. Since I have never seen any in the wild I really did not know what to expect. I do not know what to make of this (being an amateur). The largest tree I saw was 25ft tall and larger than the size of my forearm at the lower trunk. It almost brought tears to my eyes.

The morons I was hiking with did not understand my childish excitement.

Actually, that is not quite fair to them: ignorance does not necessarily make one a moron. These are actually some pretty smart guys I was with. Just ill, mis, or non informed.

This next picture is a good example of the stress I was seeing on many of the trees. Not much doubt as to what this is, yes?

I have more pictures, but this is all I had time to prepare tonight.

WDH · « **Reply #11 on:** August 22, 2007, 10:51:20 pm »

Wow, LL. To see those trees would be a treat. Ohh, the stories I have read about. How I would have liked to have made that hike 80 years ago. Apparently, the roots do pretty well in opposing their affliction. It pleases me to know that you were excited, because I would have been too

. (Thanks for the pics. They brought a smile to me).

That little Lauraceaean is having a hard time $:-\$ . I will post a pic tomorrow of a similar situation.

WDH · « **Reply #12 on:** August 22, 2007, 10:53:06 pm »

Quote from: Furby on August 22, 2007, 10:37:20 pm

What tree books............ that's why I want to go with you and Dodgy!

We would make a good team. You could do the BBQ-ing, Dodgy would do the tree ID-ing, and I would hump the packs

.

Furby · « **Reply #13 on:** August 22, 2007, 10:54:52 pm »

Lanier_Lurker · « **Reply #14 on:** August 22, 2007, 11:16:41 pm »

Quote from: WDH on August 22, 2007, 10:51:20 pm

Wow, LL. To see those trees would be a treat. Ohh, the stories I have read about. How I would have liked to have made that hike 80 years ago. Apparently, the roots do pretty well in opposing their affliction. It pleases me to know that you were excited, because I would have been too . (Thanks for the pics. They brought a smile to me).

That little Lauraceaean is having a hard time $:-\$ . I will post a pic tomorrow of a similar situation.

Sadly, I saw one of the small tress that showed clear signs of the blight. I did not get a picture of it.

I wonder if history will ever record who actually brought the Asian trees into NY that started this genocide?

Dodgy Loner · « **Reply #15 on:** August 23, 2007, 01:05:51 pm »

Quote from: WDH on August 22, 2007, 10:53:06 pm

Quote from: Furby on August 22, 2007, 10:37:20 pm
What tree books............ that's why I want to go with you and Dodgy!

We would make a good team. You could do the BBQ-ing, Dodgy would do the tree ID-ing, and I would hump the packs .

If you're carrying the packs, I'm signing up right now! It would be tough going with that blue ox grill for Furby's BBQing, though

.

Furby · « **Reply #16 on:** August 23, 2007, 03:52:27 pm »

I can get by without the blue ox roaster.
When we leaving

bitternut · « **Reply #17 on:** August 23, 2007, 06:02:01 pm »

You guys are going to have a long walk if you hike to the end of it. Actually you should start at the other end then it will all be down hill.

You would never make it across Mount Washington with this late of a start. We saw a lot of people walking that trail when we were up at the top of Mount Washington. All the hikers we saw were young and thin.

Guess you guys in the South have lots of small Chestnut in your woods also. Did you find any burrs with viable nuts in them? I have found a few but most are just hollow burrs.

WDH · « **Reply #18 on:** August 23, 2007, 10:31:29 pm »

Quote from: bitternut on August 23, 2007, 06:02:01 pm

All the hikers we saw were young and thin.

Well, I guess that rules me out. Dodgy and Furby can still go, though

.

Don K · « **Reply #19 on:** August 23, 2007, 10:37:04 pm »

Danny, remember the turtle won the race!

Don

WDH · « **Reply #20 on:** August 23, 2007, 10:54:16 pm »

Lanier_Lurker · « **Reply #21 on:** August 24, 2007, 07:44:31 am »

Quote from: bitternut on August 23, 2007, 06:02:01 pm

Guess you guys in the South have lots of small Chestnut in your woods also. Did you find any burrs with viable nuts in them? I have found a few but most are just hollow burrs.

I did not see any burrs, but I did not look very hard either.

OneWithWood · « **Reply #22 on:** August 24, 2007, 08:24:43 am »

But Danny, you will soon be thin. The young part is all in your approach. You did not strike me as being any older than I am and I am still young

My dad once accused me of going through my second childhood. I had to inform him that I was not done with the first one yet

WDH · « **Reply #23 on:** August 24, 2007, 11:08:23 am »

You are right, OWW. I am getting thinner by the minute and I am young at heart

.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #24 on:** August 24, 2007, 06:18:22 pm »

You ain't far enough yet at Mount Washington, ya gotta keep climbing....erm in latitude.

Near Corner Brook, Newfoundland

Humber river Newfoundland

Somewhere in the same vicinity, just forget exactly.

I can confirm there is a trail as soon as ya leave the Ferry in Port aux Basques. You'll see whales as ya cross in July from North Sydney, NS.

http://www.iatnl.ca/

WDH · « **Reply #25 on:** August 24, 2007, 09:30:05 pm »

SD,

I guess we will just have to continue on up and pay you a visit up there;) I am sure Furby knows the way. Dodgy won't be any help because he is always looking up, not ahead

.

Lanier_Lurker · « **Reply #26 on:** August 24, 2007, 10:01:36 pm »

Another of the trees I saw along the trail - saw several of them.

I do not know what this tree is. It has me stumped. Yet, I feel like I should know it. $:-\$

WDH · « **Reply #27 on:** August 24, 2007, 10:47:45 pm »

How about a couple of hints?

The stipular scars should completely encircle the twig, a diagnostic characteristic of this family. Also, the terminal bud should be silky and a whitish color. The twigs emit a sweet spicy smell when broken. The fruit is an aggregate of follicles. The leaf tips are usually acuminate, as you can see in the second pic on the left side. It has a fairly large greenish to yellowish flower, 2" to 3" long, so it is conspicuous. It has several notable first cousins. One is a stately southern tree that is so southern that you see its flower on many tiles, plates, paintings, and other art work. It has another cousin that is a fine soft-hardwood tree much desired for its fast drying, stable lumber, close grain, and ease in accepting paint. It was a popular wood for painted furniture in the 1700's and the 1800's. It also has a most unusual leaf shape, really one of a kind. This is one fine family of trees.

Oh, this should be the kicker.........the buds are valvate

.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #28 on:** August 25, 2007, 04:33:12 am »

Well...that's palpable enough.

Lanier_Lurker · « **Reply #29 on:** August 25, 2007, 08:39:32 am »

Uh, I'll try.

One thing you said that I think I understand and remember from a previous post is the stipular scarring (remember the oversized Carya leaflet in http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=25991.0) ?

It is apparently a magnolia.

I'll go with Magnolia acuminata. But none of the bark pictures I find for acuminata closely resemble my bark picture.

WDH · « **Reply #30 on:** August 25, 2007, 07:57:19 pm »

I think it is cucumber tree. The bark tends to be a little more scaly than yellow poplar. That is about all it could be.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #31 on:** August 26, 2007, 05:55:48 am »

pupil: Why is it cucumber tree?

teacher: It just doesn't look like anything else.

WDH · « **Reply #32 on:** August 26, 2007, 09:59:11 am »

Oh ye of little faith

.

Remember the transitive theory of mathematics? If A=B, and B=C, then A=C.

In this case, C=Cucumber Tree

.

Lanier_Lurker · « **Reply #33 on:** August 26, 2007, 12:21:04 pm »

Lanier_Lurker · « **Reply #34 on:** November 09, 2007, 09:42:32 pm »

Time for some more pictures from this outing. This is about all that is left other than some more pictures of chestnut.

What do you suppose this tree is?

Tom · « **Reply #35 on:** November 10, 2007, 10:35:41 am »

the leaves look like swamp white oak.

Don K · « **Reply #36 on:** November 10, 2007, 03:25:35 pm »

Leaves look like that of a chestnut oak.

Don

Tom · « **Reply #37 on:** November 10, 2007, 06:31:06 pm »

The reason I picked Swamp White is because my Chestnut Oak leaves have smaller and sharper sawtooth edges than the leaves in the picture and the bark is scalyer than this picture. It could be though.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #38 on:** November 10, 2007, 07:00:30 pm »

Looks like ashy gray bark and leaves of swamp chestnut oak. Now there's one for ya. Q. michauii

Chestnut oak is more to the north isn't it?

Tom · « **Reply #39 on:** November 10, 2007, 07:13:18 pm »

Yes, swamp chestnut oak, Q. michauii is what I was referring to when I mentioned "my chestnut Oak leaves". Confusing, isn't it.

Swamp white Oak (bicolor) does get into north Georgia

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #40 on:** November 10, 2007, 07:25:28 pm »

Not sure of the situation down there, although I have been in those North Georgia woods. Definitely not enough experience with them, just brief excursions. But, it might be as abundant as yellow birch there, kinda sparse. Just going by the text of dendrology that suggests it's more in the northern portion of the east.

Kinda like red oak here, once you leave the major rivers and Grand Lake it's not found very often. Not rare, but not as common as maple for instance.

referring to Q. bicolor here.

LeeB · « **Reply #41 on:** November 10, 2007, 07:32:02 pm »

I don't know what it is, but we got em in north central Arkansas. I figured out the oak part. Looking forward to the rest of it so I can identify another of the local trees. There are so many more to get to know than where I was in central Texas. You fellows are great. Thanks for all the learnen.

Tom · « **Reply #42 on:** November 10, 2007, 07:33:09 pm »

The Appalachians will mess your head up. You find stuff from way up north on one side of the mountain and stuff from farther south on the other side of the mountain. You still might be right, I'm mostly going on a mental comparison of the picture and the trees on my place. I have quite a few Swamp Chestnut Oaks and have been told that it is the most dense in the county. That may be true, because I've not seen many outside of this quadrant.

WDH · « **Reply #43 on:** November 10, 2007, 08:43:27 pm »

I am with DonK on this one. It is a chestnut oak, Quercus prinus. Grows in the upper piedmont and the mountains on hills and slopes. Swamp Chestnut Oak is a bottomland/swamp species. You would never find Swamp Chestnut Oak on those North GA hills.

The bark is different too, the Chestnut Oak is blocky and forms distinct v-shaped grooves while, like Tom points out, the Swamp Chestnut Oak bark is scaly, more like a White Oak, Quercus alba. The bark in your pic, LL, is definitely Chestnut Oak.

LeeB,

I bet your oak is Chinkapin Oak, Quercus muhlenbergii. The leaves are very similiar, except that they have little swollen gland-like structures on the tips and the bark is scaly like White Oak. Of course, you might have Chestnut Oak too, but the bark will not be scaly it if is Chestnut Oak. It will be like LL's pic here.

LeeB · « **Reply #44 on:** November 10, 2007, 08:54:24 pm »

The leaves will most likely be gone by the time I get home this time, so it will have to wait till next year for me to find and try to see if I can tell which it is.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #45 on:** November 11, 2007, 04:15:04 am »

The leaf looked too oblong to me for chestnut oak. Probably the plaque was a clue about being up in the hills, so it's probably chestnut oak.

Then again, maybe it was from the edge of the lake.

I was wondering is that the lake (Lanier) that is a reservoir that they pump the water up into the hills for hydropower and recreationists that kayak down it in white water? I been there.

Lanier_Lurker · « **Reply #46 on:** November 11, 2007, 08:23:00 am »

When I posted these pictures I was pretty sure they were chestnut oak. Sounds like they probably are.

What surprised me about them was how similar the bark was to the actual chestnut trees I was seeing.

Lanier_Lurker · « **Reply #47 on:** November 11, 2007, 08:34:37 am »

Quote from: SwampDonkey on November 11, 2007, 04:15:04 am

I was wondering is that the lake (Lanier) that is a reservoir that they pump the water up into the hills for hydropower and recreationists that kayak down it in white water? I been there.

Nope, that would be Tallulah Falls lake, which is just upstream of Tallulah Gorge. Every so often they turn loose a bunch of water into the Gorge and the whitewater enthusiasts line up for rides.

Further upstream on the Tallulah River is Seed Lake, which was the location of a subject of one of my other posts. This river eventually feeds into the Savannah River.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Tallulah_Falls

I think they use the diversion tunnel referred to in the Wikipedia article to release the water into the Gorge for rafters and kayakers.

WDH · « **Reply #48 on:** November 11, 2007, 04:33:05 pm »

LL,

How is your acorn crop up that way this year?

Lanier_Lurker · « **Reply #49 on:** November 11, 2007, 05:36:20 pm »

Spotty and lackluster at best.

I've found a couple of northern reds that dropped a decent crop, and one scarlet that dropped a decent crop.

The white oaks are way off for sure.

Of course, the pair of pin/shumard oaks from the other post (in downtown ATL) have a bumper crop this year. Not sure if they might have received supplemental watering or not.

The hickories have definitely outperformed the oaks this year. After the number of aborted hickory nuts we had after the late freeze in spring, I have been surprised at the hickory nut crop. The mockernuts in particular are dropping average or perhaps above average crops. And the percentage that pass the "float test" and sink in water is running over 90% (on the mockernuts). The pignut rate is much lower.

Seems like I read somewhere that this drought year has made for a good pecan crop in south GA.

Also, the yellow poplar seem unaffected by the late freeze and drought. I am covered with yellow poplar wingdings. Even my persimmon tree is covered with fruit.

SwampDonkey · « **Reply #50 on:** November 11, 2007, 06:00:06 pm »

Butternut crop was poor this year, might have had something to do with that shoot moth that hit. Always a Dang bug.

Hardly any acorns here either.

WDH · « **Reply #51 on:** November 11, 2007, 09:36:02 pm »

My white oaks did pretty good. We had more rain here than in N. GA.

PineNut · « **Reply #52 on:** November 11, 2007, 11:25:37 pm »

Here in SW MS, we have the heaviest acorn crop in several years. Guess we had the rain at the right time.

News:

Author Topic: LL's "walk in the woods" (Read 2875 times)