Sharpening Chain with a file

[tim1234]

I've been reading all the posts on sharpening chain.  I thought I was doing a pretty good job.   I just threw a chain last night and it dammaged the drivers so the chain would not fit into the groove of the bar.  So I put on a new chain (anti kickback style).  Wow did the saw cut great.  I'm not sure what I am doing wrong.  I know to set the rakers at the right height and have the jig to do that.  I also have the roller jig pictured below.



What am I doing wrong.  I just bought 2 of the woodsman pro chains for my Husky 455 Rancher and will see how they compare.  But I must be doing something wrong.  I'm also not sure what type of file I have been using.   It came in the sharpening kit with the roller jig.  I also bought a dozen files from Baileys as well.  I'm hoping I was using a rough file and the new (better) files will do the trick.  The book "Principles of General Tree Work" says that if the teeth are not all at the same level it will not affect the cutting of the chain.  Is this really true.  Would it make a differece if I took the chain to a shop to have it sharpend by a grinder every once in a while?  what's a good price to have a chain sharpend.  At $12 per chain, I can't see paying more than $6 to get a chain sharpend.

Thanks

Tim

[sawguy21]

The left hand cutter the file is on appears shorter than the right ones pictured and the one at the very top looks like it has been filed past the limit. This often happens because the easier side tends to get filed more. Depending whether you are left or right handed, do the awkward side first. Your angle appears o.k., is the file the right size for the chain?

[Jeff]

I've never been taught how to file a chain, and the results are with my attempts are horrible.  GIve me a saw 5 foot in diameter and I'll give you a saw that can cut paper thin slices. Give me a chainsaw and forget about it.  I really need to learn.

[tim1234]

Sawguy21,

The pic is from an old post and is not mine.  My chain is pretty new and has a lot less wear than the one in the pick.  I did rock the chain or concrete the chain.  It took quite a few strokes to get sharp.  I found the only baseball size piece of concrete within 300' of where I was cutting .  I try to use the same strokes on each side, but I am right handed and it is pretty tough to get the same stroke on both sides.  I bought one of those stump vices and hope to get it by the weekend and try it out.

I will go back to the garage and take a closer look at the chain and see if I can see a difference in the cutter lenghts on each side.

[beenthere]

..................(deleted    ....................
tim1234
You beat me on your post, so have answered some of my inquiry.  Hitting the rock helps knowing a bit more, somewhat. Check out the file diam. needed. Experience is a big thing, and knowing how the chain teeth look and are supposed to look is a real big help.  When hitting a rock, or fence wire, or a nail, I take the chain to someone with a grinding setup. They usually hog a lot off, but the end result is all the teeth are equal in length, angle, and depth (at least that is the way it is supposed to happen). 

edit
Is that jig in the photo supposed to work on an anti-kickback chain?  I'd think not, but don't know. The one in the pic is mine, and it is shown on a worn-out chain (one that found wire in a log, and was just back from a chain-grinding at my saw dealer). But it was handy for the pic showing that jig. I like that jig, but also do it free-hand too.

[Barkman]

"The book "Principles of General Tree Work" says that if the teeth are not all at the same level it will not affect the cutting of the chain."

I would agree that there can be some variability, but I'd say that the more uniform the teeth are the better.  I used to use a guide, but now sharpen freehand.  The guide I had caused me to sharpen the top of each tooth too much and not create the "hook" that you need to get a really good cut.  Now I try to follow the "angle stripe" on the top of the tooth, if there is one, and get enough depth to get that "hook."  I also feel the point of the tooth to see if it feels sharp.  

Anti-kickback chain makes it hard to adjust your cut depth.  That may be part of your problem, but I can't tell from the top view in the picture.  With a regular pro chain, I normally file the rakers down a bit when the teeth are about half worn.  I use a raker file and do two passes on the top of the raker and one angled on the face.  This is hard to demonstrate in text though.

The best advice I can give is to try what I've outlined above and change, moderately, if it doesn't give you that "new chain feel."  I am now able to get my chains to cut as when they were new through almost their entire life.

[tim1234]

I checked the file diameter and know I'm using the correct one.  I've got 2 file sizes one for my CS-300 (5/32") and one for the 455 Rancher (7/32").  The rocked chain is toast unless I can file down the drivers so they will fit into the bar groove again.  That chain guard did it's job when I threw the chain, but it did a number on the chain too.

I seem to have similar results when I sharpen the echo chain too.  Cuts great new until I touch it with the file

[sawguy21]

A lot of shops tend to grind too much and burn the chain because of haste and inexperience. The summer student is given a five minute tutorial and turned loose. I soon learned my first boss did not know a lot more about it than I did The Oregon site offers a lot of good information.

[Dan_Shade]

i think the tooth length thing is slightly over rated.  it only shows up when bucking large logs, it will give you a curved cut.  However, this isn't really a good thing when felling a tree...

I like a file, i touch up the teeth every tank full.  a stump vise makes it much easier.  try turning the saw around if you have trouble changing directions.

When using a file, make the last stroke or two very light, and make sure that you are sharpening the corner to a point, and the entire top plate.  It's not hard, I promise!

[jokers]

OK, I now realize that picture is Beenthere`s and not your`s Tim but I have a comment about it anyway. That picture shows a file that is too large for the tooth based on the amount of file that I can see, it will take the leading edge of the topplate too far back without sharpening it(actually blunting it) and it will not give you a positive sideplate angle, so if your setup looks exactly like his we know where atleast one of the problems lies.

Been there already knows this and his picture was simply for an illustration of the filing jig, but for those who don`t know I`m going to tell you that you need to reduce the file diameter one size once you get about halfway back on the tooth to maintain the correct angles. Even a chain with little nubbins for teeth will cut well when filed properly.

Now for the depth gauges. If you have the filing jig pictured you don`t need a seperate jig, that type jig or a Carlton File-O-Plate are the two best since they reference only the tooth attached to each raker as it is being lowered. The other gauges average the tooth heights and the cutting will be dramatically slower if all of your teeth aren`t perfectly uniform in length.

Is there any way that you can get a close up pic or two of your filed chain and your file jig set up on the chain Tim?

[thecfarm]

I use to have a hard time sharping my chainsaw,years ago.This is what I found out and works wonderful for me,even after hitting a rock.This I feel with depend if someone is left or right handed.When the saw head is on my left I take 3 strokes with the file,when the head is on the right I only take 2.I quess it is more comforable for me to file when the head is on the left,I take more off and I don't realize I'm even doing it.I might have this backwards,but I'm not filing a chain right now.Been working for me for 25 years now.I can use a chain until it is just about gone and it will still draw itself into the wood pretty good and cut nice and straight.No more circles for me.My father use to kinda thing I was crazy doing this,but it works for me just fine.This is all done free hand with no gauges.
At $6 I would learn how to shapen a chain myself.That's about the going rate here from the saw shop that I go to.Took me a few chains, to figure it out to.But I got it.Just keep praticing until you get it.I had a good size log that I learned on.Just kept filing until I got it through my thick head what I was doing wrong.

[tim1234]

Jokers,

I'll take a pic of the chain tonight and post it. There is significantly less wear on my chain than the one in the pic.

Do you need to reduce file size even though the jig is angled so the file is lowered as you take more of the tooth off?  I would think this lowering of the file would take care of the file dia issue.  Or am way off

[jokers]

Tim,

I hate to say that you are way off but if you look at a tooth from the side you will realize that it is lower in height at the back vs the front, right? As you file toward the back you will eventually reach a point where the file is cutting into the tie straps, or you can`t file any more. Optimally, 1/5 of the file diameter is above the topplate when filing, if you can`t maintain a full 1/5, the inside of the topplate becomes blunt and the sideplate angle, or hook disappears. This will slow your chain significantly.

[tim1234]

got it.  Thanks!

[beenthere]

jokers is right on. I pic'd the wrong file, and a bad example of a chain, to show anything more than what the jig looked like..

I go to a smaller diam. file when the teeth are further back and when the 1/5 rule comes into play. A tooth has many angles to get right, and this has to be repeated on all the teeth, plus the rakers at the right height. It is a challenge, but rewarding when your chain cuts wood like butter....

[RSteiner]

Well sirs,  I"m finding it a real convienice to get that there chain to cut in a circle.  You just start that felling cut at the top and just curve it right around and come out the bottom in one motion.  The back cut is a little tricky you have to start at the proper place on the trunk to get those circles to line up at the hindge.

I striggled with filing by hand for what seemed like the longest time.  Getting both sides equally sharp seems to be the the major battle.  The length of the tooth from one side to the other seems less important than getting the top of the tooth sharp at the point and the opposite end of the point.  The angle the top of the tooth is filed at will make a difference in the way the saw pulls into the wood as well as the height of the raker.  Too much hook and the saw will pull right into the wood, too little and it cuts slow and makes saw dust. 

I find the little score mark on the top of the tooth to be a good general guide to follow.  A little variation or this angle when cutting soft wood or hard wood can make a difference.  However, unless you are cutting all hard wood or soft wood follow the line.  Chainsaw milling is an other story all together.

Rakers that are too low makes for a grabby chain and too high makes sawdust and slow going.  I like to use the file guide that holds the file underneath and has a plate that rests on the raker and the top of the tooth.  It also has angle marks on the top that help you keep the top angle consistant.  I have used the roller guide and with a little pratice you can do a good job.

I made a jig to hold the chain when it is off the saw.  This allows me to hold the chain tight by the driver and to turn the chain around so I can get both sides close to equal in length and angle while standing in a comfortable place without the power head of the saw in the way.  Observation is a critical element, try one thing and see how it cuts and what the difference is when you vary that one thing. 

Randy

[SwampDonkey]

  I have learned to sharpen a chain pretty good free hand. It has so much bite that the Husky 55 almost lacks the umph to chew down through a stick.  Same with a brush saw blade, I like to just be able to touch the throttle and have the blade spin with out hearing womp womp all the time. Means the difference between 2.5 points and 4 cut in a day.

[timberjack240]

the only thing i can tell ya is keep practicin .. thats what i had to do i got my self now to the piont i can sharpen a saw give it to pap whos been cuttin for forty years ..so yoou know hes fussywith his saws.. and ask him how it cut and hes not afraid to tell me but lately hes been givin good reprts .. i remeber one time i sharpened up reall good and cut the rakers way low and gave it to him he got a suprised look on his face when he sank it in  but anyway eventuay youll get it .. i used a file guard for a while then here and there i woondt use it and slowly worked my way away from it ...good luck and happy filin

[tim1234]

Here are some pics of my chain.  From my untrained eye it looks pretty good and feels sharp to the touch.  The corner of the tooth feels sharp and the angle looks pretty good.  I did get half of my order from Bailey's today, but not my 7/32" files only the 5/32".  The spiral cut of the files looks a lot better than the files I was using from Lowes.  I think the files from Bailey's are a much finer file so I would hope they will give a finer finish and a sharper edge.  I can't quite get my 6000 grit 4x10 water stone in there

Top views

 



I checked the rakers with a gauge and they were below the gauge so there was nothing to file.  The pics are a little fuzzy so you will just have to trust me on this one

 

 

Here is a close up from the side.  As far as I can tell it is sharp.

 

But it shure don't cut like my new chain.

Tim

[beenthere]

I'm thinkin that the file used on the teeth pictured is too large for the chain.  Evidence of that in the last photo (at least as I see it). What diam. file is supposed to be used with this chain?  That is the first to know, and what to use.  Looks to me like the cutting edge is the right angle, but the cutting edge shown is too blunt. The file is not dropping down into the gullet of the tooth. 

I don't consider myself an expert, but I do have good results with filing chain teeth. Others may see more here than I do.  Hope we can get ya on track.  Don't give up. 

My Stihl 3/8 chain calls for a 13/64 file, which I use instead of a 7/32 file, but not until filing back about 1/3 of the tooth.  The 5/32 file I use is for a very small tooth on a brush cutter blade.  What diam file is the Lowes?  Also, looking at the cutting edge with a 10X lens will do wonders for what you can see, and tell much more about the good or not so good cutting edge.    The entire gullet of each tooth should show its been filed, the way I see it.   

[tim1234]

I checked the Oregon site and I can't find this exact chain.  The closest I can find is the 72v072G chain and it recommends a 7/32" file.  The chain I bought from bailey's also recomments a 7/32" file, so I'm sure I'm using the right file.

Just for comparison, here are some pics of the new Woodsman Pro chain that came today.
 
And agin the Oregon Chain

 

Top View of the Woodsman Pro Chain



The depth of the file looks pretty close, what do ya think?

Tim

[RSteiner]

I'm wondering if you can really sharpen a chisel tooth with a round file the same as when it was originally sharpened when it was new.  When a chain is ground the wheel profile can be matched to the tooth shape so that all the angles are correct.  I don't think that same profile can be matched with just a round file.

I know some folks sharpen their saw chain with a flat file or a combination of flat and round.  I must admit that when I sharpen a new chain with a round file it cuts well but maybe not exactly like it did when it was new.

Randy

[jokers]

The entire gullet of each tooth should show its been filed, the way I see it.

Actually a new tooth with the proper diameter file requires a second step to clean out the gullets when the file is placed at the right height to the tooth. As the tooth is filed back and becomes lower in height filing the tooth and the gullet becomes one step.

[jokers]

I'm wondering if you can really sharpen a chisel tooth with a round file the same as when it was originally sharpened when it was new.  When a chain is ground the wheel profile can be matched to the tooth shape so that all the angles are correct.  I don't think that same profile can be matched with just a round file.

I know some folks sharpen their saw chain with a flat file or a combination of flat and round.  I must admit that when I sharpen a new chain with a round file it cuts well but maybe not exactly like it did when it was new.

Randy

On certain chain such as Stihl it may seem as if you can`t get it just as sharp with filing but the truth is that once you establish the radius in the thicker chrome, you should be able to get the chain sharper than a factory grind.

[jokers]

I checked the Oregon site and I can't find this exact chain.  The closest I can find is the 72v072G chain and it recommends a 7/32" file.  The chain I bought from bailey's also recomments a 7/32" file, so I'm sure I'm using the right file......................The depth of the file looks pretty close, what do ya think?

Tim

Yeah Tim, your hook looks pretty good, maybe a little more on your Oregon chain than your Carlton chain has but it should cut good. I can also see the raker heights and they look like they should be plenty low enough but is this the same Oregon chain that you showed a top view looking down on earlier?

Maybe I`m seeing things that don`t exist in the top view showed earlier, but when I copied that photo and blew it up it looked like you might have had a couple of teeth with subtle dual bevels across the leading edge of the topplate resulting in a rebated working corner and a few of the teeth appeared to have a shadow along the leading edge that normally indicates the edge being slightly peened over making the chain not sharp, even though the working corner might look good upon causal inspection.

I apologize for this critical assessment of your chain if not true. The combined effect of viewing that relatively low resolution photo which I subsequently enlarged and viewed on my LCD monitor might show a picture that is different from what actually exists.

[tim1234]

Jokers,

No problem.  The pic of my chain (without the jig) shows a second line about a 1/16" off the cutting edge.  I think the very tip gets cleaned off good by the cut wood and there is a little smudge behind on the lower part of the tooth that is not contacting the wood.

My new files didn't come today.  Maybe they're coming from out west, so I can't try out my technique on the big saw.  The weather's going to be great tomorrow, so maybe I'll try sharpening the Echo CS-300 and do some climbing and pruning of some trees in the yard.  Might not get a good cool day like tomorrow until late Sept.

We'll see how the new files work.

Tim

[Kevin]

if the teeth are not all at the same level it will not affect the cutting of the chain

What Gerald says in his book is

An odd short cutter on the chain won't hamper the overall performance of the chain.

What he is saying is, when you get a rocked out cutter take it down to where it has been restored but just sharpen the rest as normal.

[SwampDonkey]

What gives me good results to is I put a little upward pressure on the tooth when sharpening, not just side pressure. This is light pressure.

[oldsaw]

There is a lot of good info here.  I learned to file from a guy who sort of knew what he was doing (my father) when the guy who used to file for him quit or got fired (he was a night watchman who earned a couple of extra bucks on the job filing chains).  I was probably 10 or 11 when he showed me what to do, or what he thought I should do, and I learned from there.  When I did good, he told me, so I knew what I was doing was good.  I didn't run a saw for a few years later, so I had no reference point.  Over time, I got pretty good at it.  To this day, he won't file his chains other than a "touch up" if he is in a jam.

I'll tell you one that that got me early on, and still does when I'm tired or distracted, is how you naturally want to swing your elbow out during the file stroke.  Instead of being straight, your file moves in a semi-circular pattern, and takes the edge off the side of the cutter.  On a newer chain, I also use some upward pressure on the file as well.  About 1/3 of the way through the life of the chain, you will find that unnecessary as Jokers mentioned.  The rules change as the chain wears.

Personally, I hate guides.  I've never found one that made me feel like I was compromising the filing in some way.  I guess I'm some kind of control freak.  It's easier to figure out what you are doing without one.  I have the very one you are showing.  I thought it was kind of cute.  Never used it.  Just be mindful of what the file is doing at all times, and it will begin to feel natural after a while.  It just doesn't at first, since you are trying to do something in 3 different planes, and your brain and hands don't like to work that way.  It will come.  I'm not the sharpest pencil in the box, and I can get a good chain consistently.  You will get there too in short order.  I'm just not smart enough to tell you what I do.  I don't think about it any more, I just do it.  It has become a natural thing.

Listen to these guys, don't be afraid to get the saw shop to straighten up a chain if you booger it up...just make sure they know what they are doing.  Those trips will get fewer and farther between very quickly.

Mark

[tim1234]

I got my Foresty Pro files.  Bailey's say they get them from Swizerland.  Wow what a difference.  You don't feel like you have to push hard to get them to cut.  I sharpened up the little echo and it was throwing chips like I remember it could.  I haven't tried the Husky yet, but will sharpen it up tomorrow and try it out.  I did use that slight upward pressure that swampdonkey mentioned. 

One interesting thing.  The oregon chain is supposed to sharpened at 25 degrees.  The Forestry Pro is supposed to be at 35 degrees.  Does this depend on the tooth shape?

Can you see the difference between the Lowe's file and the Bailey's file?  I can sure feel the difference. 

 

I should read my 2 cents at the bottom of my post again.  A good tool is just that a good tool.

Tim

[Dan_Shade]

I learned a good trick in an old gunsmithing manual a while back.  you should have your vise height so that your elbow does not have to make an arc while pushing a file...  the same thing could be said about filing a chain, get yourself situated where you can easily file in a straight line.

[Kevin]

Does this depend on the tooth shape?

It really depends on the manufacturers recommendation for each specific design.
I always sharpen to the manufactured specs .
If you go with Oregon chain and their roller guide you can't miss.

[tim1234]

Kevin,

I've got 2 different guides for the 2 saws.  For the Husky, I have the roller guide like the one in the first picture.  For the Echo I've got that flat style guide where you clip the file into the guide and it holds the file at the right depth.  You kind of have to eyball the angle.  I usually look at the tooth since those scribed angles on the guide are always in the wrong place.  Only the 30 degree mark is at the end where you start your cut. 

I havn't looked, but do they make roller guides for different size chain?  And now that you made me think about it, I'm goin to check the roller guide to see what chain it is supposed to be for.  It came with 7/32" files, so I belive it is the right one for my 3/8" Pitch .050 gauge chain.  It won't work on the echo since the top plate angle for the smaller chain is 90 deg.  The bigger chain has a different angle (can't rembember what it is at the moment).

Tim

[Kevin]

Tim;
The guides are chain specific and are coloured differently for that reason.
The only thing you line up is the edge of the guide with the file to give you the proper top plate angle.
Everything else is built into the guide.
It helps to turn your body to attain the proper angle rather than twisting your arm into position.
Get a carding brush and keep ypur files clean and use a piece of cloth to floss the the dirt out of the cutters prior to filing.



You can see in this next picture where the file is tipped in slightly on one side of the guide which will change the top plate angle of the cutter if it was filed that way.

[tim1234]

I sharpend a few teeth on the Husky today.  It looked like the file was sitting to high in comparison to the tooth, so I compared an unsharpend original tooth to a sharpend tooth.  The jig is filing the tooth at a noticably less agressive angle.

Here is a pic of the sharpend tooth (left) and the orignal Factory sharpend tooth (right) along with the jig I'm using.  This is a new chain that I bucked some deadfall with, maybe 5 cuts.

 

I guess this explains why I can't get my sharpened chains to cut like new. 
The jig has 3/8 printed on it which is the pitch of the chain and all the angles seem to line up.  I checked the husky website and they have several jigs but they look much the same as the one I have.  I do have one of the flat style guides, but you have to manually line up all the angles by eye and I'm not that good yet.  It also seems that with the Pferd jig, that sharpens the tooth and sets the raker at the same time, also requires you to "eye" the angles. 

One thought that popped into my mind is I wonder that because the jig came from Lowes, they assume that the person using it is a novice and therefore is safer with a less agressive chain   I wonder if a regular husky or other brand roller jig will give me the right angle. 
 

I guess I have the option to sharpen with the jigs I've got, try a new one or get real good at freehand sharpening. 

Tim

[Kevin]

You can take a black marker and darken the inside cutting edge.
The file should take metal off to the cutting corner of the cutter which is where all the action is.



Tim;
This is one of the reasons the sharpened chain isnt as aggressive ..



The depth gauge is a different height on each cutter.

[sawguy21]

Just a thought, is your guide for the 3/8 Picco chain? If so, it will set the file too high.

[tim1234]

Sawguy21,

Don't know what Picco chain is, can you tell me what picco chain is and how it is different from others? 

I am wondering how the forestry pro chain will compare to the oregon chain.  I may switch the chains just for curiosit and compare how the jig fits.

Tim

[sawguy21]

Picco is low profile 3/8 chain generally used on saws under 40cc. It is likely on your Echo. I brought this up in case you are using the wrong roller guide on the Husky.

[tim1234]

Kevin,

Wow, that IS a big difference.  I hadn't looked at that.  That was only a couple light strokes of the file and it made that much difference   I guess because the file is higher it's removing more of the tooth at the top edge.  I'll check with the depth gauge tomorrow.  Is the 25 stamped on the raker the depth the raker should be below the cutter (0.025")?

Sawguy21,

The previous chain which I threw and the chain on the saw now are both 72 series Oregon chain, which If I am correct is not a Picco chain.  Good hint though.  The new Forestry Pro chain I just bought is the 30RC series.

BTW, thanks to everyone who has given advice on this topic.  I really appreciate it and I'm learning a lot.  You would think that just a few strokes with a file would be easy, but it's not.  I hope this is helping others as much as it is me.

Tim 

[RSteiner]

There is one thing I thought I'd throw in here semi-related to the chain and cutting performance.  The condition of the bar can contribute to how straight the chain cuts.  The rails on the bar will wear after a while and some times they do not wear evenly.  I find dressing or regrinding the edges of the bar square again helps improve the whole operation.

Randy

[Kevin]

the raker should be below the cutter (0.025")?

That's correct.

The file sits relatively high on the cutter.

[thecfarm]

I was lucky.I had my Father to watch.He could sharpen anything and make it cut like it was new or better.He came from the days of crosscut,bucksaw and axes days.Either you sharpened it correct or you worked way harder than there was any need of all day long.But I did not get his eye.It took me awhile to catch on to what I had to do.You are getting alot of good help.This will all take time.Should be well on your way in a few weeks.Good luck.

[tim1234]

Kevin,

If I keep the rakers at the right height, will the less agressive cutting angle make much difference.

I guess one advantage is it should be a more durable edge since it isn't as thin at the cutting edge

Tim

[Kevin]

I'm not sure what Oregon chain you are using, maybe Super 70, LP?
If you stick with the guide and the chain for that guide, keep the rakers at .025-.030 below the top of the cutting tooth you should have decent results.
Keep all the cutters the same length, reference tools like this one are handy to check angles and length.

[tim1234]

Kevin,

That's the first time I've ever seen a gauge like that.  Do you know of a source?

Tim

[Kevin]

You can buy that one direct from Granberg, I'm not sure if Timber Pro has them, Bailey''s might.

[tim1234]

Thanks!

[GW]

I'm thinking about free-hand filing with my new Stihl saw and chain. Most of my life has been spent cooking professionally and I'm better than the average bear at putting an edge on steel. I'm open to using a guide if this skill doesn't exactly translate to saw chain, but after reading this thread I feel pretty confident that I understand the principles.

Either way I need files and I wonder if any of you have an opinion about THIS file. I've use this brand of sharpener before and I like using diamonds.

I'm a bit confused by my Stihl manual because it shows 3 different 3/8 chains with 2 different file sizes. Chains 3/8 PMN and 3/8 P use 5/32 and the chain listed just as 3/8 uses 13/64. My chain has Stihl C stamped on each cutter.

[sawguy21]

The 3/8P and PMN are the low profile extended pitch used on the small saws. The MS341 and up use the larger chain.
Those diamond files had better be good at that price.

[beenthere]

Which chain do you have?  Should have that info from the dealer. I'd suspect it uses the 13/64" and I'd buy the files that Stihl sells, but you might feel better getting the diamond ones.  We'll be interested in how you do with your butcher knife skills and the chain filing. You may shed some new light on the subject. Then we will be buying those expensive files too.  

Look in
Stihl chain types
and you likely have the newer RS chain with the C for Comfort. The older RS doesn't come in 3/8 anymore. That might account for the "C" stamped on the side. However, my RS has what looks like a C, but is instead the point at which the tooth is at it's filing life's end.  To me, it is indicative of the shape the tooth should be on the side. Might be wrong there tho.

[GW]

I just noticed that the box the spare chain came in says Oilomatic 3.

I'll ask the dealer for more info when I go back to buy the chaps. Not too impressed with Stihl's system of labeling....

It's true that the diamond hones are expensive, but they make up for it by cutting better and longer.

[Dan_Shade]

the link that beenthere posted has all of the info you need

basially, there are two types of chain, chisel chain and semi-chisel.  the chisel has a square corner, the semi-chisel, a round corner.  then there is full comp, and skip which is how spaced out the teeth are, a skip chain has every other tooth missing which is for big wood so that the chain doesn't have too much tooth engagement.

the low profile is a smaller profiled chain.

[sawguy21]

Is there a label on the box flap? If the dealer orders precut chain from Stihl this label will give the type of chain, 61PM, 63 PM, 33RSC, etc and the drive link count. If the dealer is packaging chain, he should be writing this information on the box.

[GW]

Written on the box: 66 D.L. 050 G.

I went into the store today and told the wife/owner I wasn't sure about the model of chain. She said you wanted Rapid Chain didn't you? I had asked for non anti-kickback chain. She returned and told me that my chain needs a 13/64 file. I brought one home but it looks too big to me.

[limbrat]

If you are going to file your chain by hand gauge or pitch or angle or chain type dont matter at all. It only matters for matching the chain to the saw or matching the chain to what you are cutting. If you are filing by hand it is as simple as following a groove with a file. Thats it. Find the groove in the tooth and push the file through it 2 or 3 times look at the inside of the tooth if all the faces are polished and all the edges are sharp the tooth is sharpened to the factory spec go to the next tooth. If you use a guage you are following the guage and not the chain. It can be much more difficult as this thread has shown. If you file by hand you follow the chain it has its own guide and will tell you what it needs just let the file follow the groove in the tooth. Dont try to cut anything of force the file just polish the inside of the tooth. You do need to get the correct size file if you are not sure put the saw in the truck go to the saw shop or local mom and pop or werever you get your files. Grab a couple and take them out to your saw (tell the clerk what your doing)Put the tip of the file in the tooth let it go into the groove. Look down at the file from top corner of the tooth if it fills the inside of the tooth and touches all inside faces and all outside edges buy that one.

Filing a chain by hand can be easy. People get into trouble when they try to force it. Just take simple little steps and its no big thing. Start with a new chain. When it starts to dull stop and sharpen it. Just follow the groove and dont force it. Check the inside of the tooth every two or three strokes when its sharp stop. TAKE YOUR TIME when the chain is half worn out you should have a feel for it and can speed up. (a 20" chain should take between two three minutes,5 to 10 when starting out). Take a little time just follow the rut and you will have something when you are finished that no one can take away. But you can always give it away.

[jokers]

Check the inside of the tooth every two or three strokes when its sharp stop.

Sorry to disagree Limbrat but it matters very little what the inside of the tooth looks like beyond establishing the angle away from the outside edge. To focus on what the inside of the tooth looks like could lead a person to ignore sharpening the working corner and removing any peened over or dulled edges. The fiber is severed by the outside of the tooth and the inside edges mostly just serve to complete the deflection of the resultant chip into the chip channel.

The working corner is the single most important factor affecting how any tooth cuts. The working corner is on the outside of any cutter.

[jokers]

Written on the box: 66 D.L. 050 G.

I went into the store today and told the wife/owner I wasn't sure about the model of chain. She said you wanted Rapid Chain didn't you? I had asked for non anti-kickback chain. She returned and told me that my chain needs a 13/64 file. I brought one home but it looks too big to me.

You will need to file the beak out of the gullet on a new chain for the round file to fit properly, this seems especially pronounced on Stihl chain. Not a big deal, just a result of their factory grinding method.

[GW]

Joker, maybe you hit on what's confusing me. Is the beak the small hook or point that's towards the bottom of the curved part of the tooth? What I'm looking at isn't very large, but it's stopping the file from fitting against most of the curve.

[limbrat]

Joker, the outside edges and corners are never addressed except to push the filings off of them to get a better look. Following the groove in the tooth takes down the inside faces evenly and the corners and edges take care of themselves. If the inside faces are not filed evenly it showes that a person is not following the guide in the tooth or is using the wrong size file. Which will throught the cutting edges and corners off. If a person has dulled the chain to were they cant even force it to cut there are no good cutting edges and corners to work with, but the inside faces and groove are still there and can be used to bring the cutting edges and corners back to spec. Focusing on the cutting edges and corners is one of the easiest was to mess up when filing a chain.

[maple flats]

I think we are getting too complicated. I hand file with excellent results and I follow the ref angle mark on the tooth (Oregon). I file 3 or 4 strokes and then look at the tooth straight on. If it is sharp there will be no glare at the cutting edge, if there is glare take more strokes. With practice you will not need to check each tooth for glare. If you watch closely as you file you can see when the file is in complete contact with the tooth, this is when it is sharp. I do not count strokes but rather watch the file. If a file is not removing filings (cutting with each stroke) get a new file. I have never taken a chain to be sharpened at a saw shop and my chains cut like new after I sharpen them. Practice. I do now use a stump vice, just faster to sharpen for me.

[jokers]

Joker, maybe you hit on what's confusing me. Is the beak the small hook or point that's towards the bottom of the curved part of the tooth? What I'm looking at isn't very large, but it's stopping the file from fitting against most of the curve.

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

That`s exactly what I`m referring to GW. A couple of good firm licks with downward pressure on the file will knock that beak right out of there. You also need to periodically remove the beak that develops as the tooth is filed back even though the file will now fit unobstructed. Because of the clearance angle built into the tooth, the beak if left intact will protrude further than the working corner, preventing it from functioning correctly.

[GW]

Thanks jokers!

[jokers]

Joker, the outside edges and corners are never addressed except to push the filings off of them to get a better look. Following the groove in the tooth takes down the inside faces evenly and the corners and edges take care of themselves. If the inside faces are not filed evenly it showes that a person is not following the guide in the tooth or is using the wrong size file. Which will throught the cutting edges and corners off. If a person has dulled the chain to were they cant even force it to cut there are no good cutting edges and corners to work with, but the inside faces and groove are still there and can be used to bring the cutting edges and corners back to spec. Focusing on the cutting edges and corners is one of the easiest was to mess up when filing a chain.

limbrat,

You continue to do it your way, I`ll do it mine. Everyone else is free to do as they please also. Now isn`t that nice?! 

[limbrat]

fair enuff

[SawTroll]

I've been reading all the posts on sharpening chain.  I thought I was doing a pretty good job.   I just threw a chain last night and it dammaged the drivers so the chain would not fit into the groove of the bar.  So I put on a new chain (anti kickback style).  Wow did the saw cut great.  I'm not sure what I am doing wrong.  I know to set the rakers at the right height and have the jig to do that.  I also have the roller jig pictured below.

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

What am I doing wrong.  I just bought 2 of the woodsman pro chains for my Husky 455 Rancher and will see how they compare.  But I must be doing something wrong.  I'm also not sure what type of file I have been using.   It came in the sharpening kit with the roller jig.  I also bought a dozen files from Baileys as well.  I'm hoping I was using a rough file and the new (better) files will do the trick.  The book "Principles of General Tree Work" says that if the teeth are not all at the same level it will not affect the cutting of the chain.  Is this really true.  Would it make a differece if I took the chain to a shop to have it sharpend by a grinder every once in a while?  what's a good price to have a chain sharpend.  At $12 per chain, I can't see paying more than $6 to get a chain sharpend.

Thanks

Tim

Are you sure that the "jig" and files are the right size for your chains??

Whatever guide you use, to get the teeth really sharp, watch closely what you are doing, and let go of the guides for the finishing stroke(s)....

[tim1234]

SawTroll,

I've been looking into that and there are many different types of these roller jigs.  I am going to order a Husky brand one to make sure it is right for the saw.  Their inexpensive enough that if it turns out that it is the same as the one I've got I'll have a spare.

Tim

[SawTroll]

The blue one is for the Oregon 70-series, and also fits the Stihl 3/8" RS and RM etc, with just slight mods.

File size should be 7/32" for Oregon, and 13/64" (new chain) or 7/32" for Stihl chain.

[craigc]

Just do what Maple Flats says that if great advice I do the same thing 5 days a week in the woods it just a chain guys we arent dealing with rockets here.

[Danny Dimm]

Hears a trick we use for those burred up rackers. Put your chain back on real real slack. Start the saw and rev it for a few seconds. Maybe even make a bit of a cut. Careful to keep the saw staight so the chain dosen't fly off again. The burrs should be gone. Tighten the chain and get back at it.

[beenthere]

Danny
Are talking about the driver links being burred up?
 

[ely]

been there, i would say that is what danny is talking about, cause thats how i do it too