30acres stand and stock table and board feet

[empireeast]

Hello,
I am looking to sell my timber and would like to ask you guys what you think my timber is worth. The 30 acres of timber is located on flat land 45 minutes from a mill in corry pennsylvania (northwestern PA) The stand and stock table is as follows.
Please keep in mind that I will be making a large pond and fields on the property so I would like to sell all marketable timber. That is the reason for listing the smaller diameter trees.
Diameter   Hard Maple   Bee/Bass   Hickory   Cherry   Red Oak   Tulip   Ash   S.Maple   
12   159                           37                    0   18     2          2   2   2   
14   199                           60                    2    21      5         6           6   8   
16   102                            27                    1   13      1         3           3   4   
18   23                              9                      0      8        3            1      1      3   
20   5                               1                       0       3         0             0        0       2   
   488                            134                     3    63   11        12         12   19   725

Board feet for trees over 15in in diameter
24 Cherry export 1454 @ 2000 1 1512 @1400 2 @ 1435
130 Hard Maple 1401 @1000 1 6--3 @ 700
4 R Oak  1 174 @ 600

Please let me know if you have questions
[/table]

[Ron Scott]

Best to have a "local" professional consulting forester or conservation district forester that knows your local markets and species timber values "look at the timber" on site and review the harvest conditions to provide you with a meaningful appraisal.

 

[oakiemac]

I couldnt understand your table but I agree 100% with what Ron said. Talk with a local consulting forester and he can give you the low down.

[Ron Wenrich]

Who developed your stand table?  You would be surprised at how little those 12" and 14" trees really are worth when compared for the growth you'll be putting on those trees in years to come.  I understand the areas of field and the pond would need to be cleared, but if you are leaving any woods, I'd consider leaving the smaller trees.

Also, where's the pulpwood?  There's adequate markets in your area for pulp and you should have some on a clearcut.  It'll be less headache for you to deal with down the road.

[empireeast]

Sorry the table didn't align like it should have. Union Hardwoods made the table for me.  I did have a management company check out my land. The company was called Forecon..They recommended that I wait seven years before I harvest. However, I plan on building a house in the near future and would like some extra money to fund the project.

Can you explain to me what pulpwood is? What is it worth?  Will a company other than the logging company purchase it? I am new to all this so sorry for such basic questions.

Thanks in advance!
Jim

[Ron Scott]

From the Dictionary of Forestry:

Pulpwood: Roundwood, whole-tree chips, or wood residues that are used for the propduction of wood pulp. (pulp is seperated wood fibers used in manufacturing paper, fiberboard, or other wood fiber products)

It is usually the smaller diameter and poorer grade roundwood that is not marketed as sawlogs. Pulpwood prices are less than sawlog prices and it is purchased by timber producers who sell it to pulp mills (paper mills) or it may be purchased by the mills directly.

Forecon Inc. is a well known professional forestry & natural resources consulting firm so I'm sure that you are getting some good local advice for you timber marketing.

[Ron Wenrich]

I'm not sure if there is any paper plants in Erie, anymore.  I think International Paper closed.  But, there is Allegheny Particleboard over on the other side of Kane.  Mallory down in Emporium used to send it out by the railcar.  And, there's places up around Buffalo.  If all else fails, loggers have been known to sell it as firewood.  Pulpwood is worth $5-10/ton, depending on the logger and their markets.  Some loggers don't cut pulpwood at all. 

I know nothing of Union Hardwoods.  It seems like they have probably made you some sort of offer, so I'm assuming that they're either a mill or a logger.  The cutting priority appears to be a diameter limit cut of 12" dbh and up.  I'm not sure if the stand is marked or not.  This will liquidate the stand for some time to come.

Forecon is a consulting firm out of NY and has been in business since at least the 1960s.  They are looking it more as how to maximize your return.  They are saying if you cut now, you're killing your milkers.  Some farmers do that, but they don't stay in business long.

You won't find anyone here on the Internet that could give you any idea of price.  Prices vary too much with quality and no one in their right mind would give a price without looking at the wood.  You might get a ballpark number, but it is still speculation.

My guess is that you're looking at a sale of about 50-60,000 bd ft with an average diameter of 14".  That's small wood in my parts of the state. 

Since your intent on selling your wood, I would advise to get as many buyers into your woodlot that you can.  A single bid from a single buyer may sound good, but when you get some competitive bidding going is where you find the true value of your wood.  Consultants provide that service for a fee.

[bitternut]

I used Forecon to write my management plan and I was very satisfied with them. As Ron said they are well respected in the industry. A wise person would take their advice. If I were you I would only sell now as a last resort and for sure any sale would be done by bidding through a forester such as Forecon. Seems as though wood prices are down so that would be another reason to hold off cutting. Most trees will also go up in grade as they gain diameter so that is yet another reason not to cut small diameter trees.

[Ron Wenrich]

Good point about the grade standpoint.  The bulk of the stand is in 14" trees.  In 7 years they would be marginally in the 15" class and would have a considerable jump in value.

[empireeast]

I have had quite a few loggers give me bids. My specifications for them is to harvest anything over 15in breast height. Their prices ranged from 10k to 19k. If I waited seven years what percentage on average would the bids increase. As for the land..I paid a fairly reasonable price of 70k.. It would be a dream to get that much back in just timber.....

[Ron Wenrich]

Its hard to say how much more things will be worth.  But, you have 130 trees in the 16"+ category and 199 in 14".  It seems to me that some of those will grow into your 16" range.  You should be jumping a size class every 8-10 years on your better growing trees.  That would also mean that your 16" become 18", etc.

On average, hardwood stumpage outstrips inflation by about 3%.  Right now, the maples and cherry are increasing in your area about 7-8% per year.  The oaks aren't doing as well.  To get some graphs of how prices are going in your area, check the Penn State site:
http://www.sfr.cas.psu.edu/tmr/

You have paid 70K for land and timber.  You should develop a cost basis for this.  It would have been the original inventory and appraisal that you should have had when you bought the property.  There's tax advantages to it when you sell timber.  Talk to your accountant about them.

One thing about selling timber using diameter limits, what looks like a 15" tree to one guy might not be that to another.  Unless you've had some sort of inventory (like what Union Hardwood has done), you're probably running blind.  How will you tell if a guy cuts a 14" tree?  How about 10 of them?

I find that the best sales are marked trees.  That way all bidders are bidding on exactly the same trees.  Not ones that they think they can take.  Its a CYA thing.

[empireeast]

Thanks for all your help. I will talk to my accountant about developing a cost basis for the land and timber. As for marking the trees I will be sure to do this when I decide to harvest. I am going to try as hard as possible to keep the construction costs on my house down so I don't have to harvest the trees for another 6to8 years.

Thanks
Jim